1. Hello, I'm currently trying to gear a blood DK tank and have a few questions:

    Vampiric Blood:
    MINOR defencive CD.
    If u have ToGC Scarab trinket, try combining them as in, use Vampiric Blood with it OR use it 2sec before Scarab activation is about to run out of time.


    Army of the Dead:
    MAJOR defencive CD.
    If u dont have anything left u can use this and just stand in place and cast it.
    Try to save some runic power before doin this, after its done u can use Death Pact in order to heal a lot instantly.
    1) Can you please explain how AotD is a major defensive CD? I understand it gives armor when you cast it, but that's about it?
    How is that considered a bigger defensive CD than Vampiric Blood, which seems OP at first sight ?


    2) Talent trees are broken but I assume you take "will of the Necropolis", how useful is it ? I don't see any mention of Mark of blood, would that be an interesting alternative ?

    3) I see mentions of soft and hard expertise caps, which one should I go for as a tank? How big of a difference will parry haste make (parry haste = wipe?) As I understand it (healer experience), Sindragosa is mostly magic burst and the autos aren't that scary once you're under reliable healers, can the same be said about Halion?

    4) I understand the def cap is 540, but for armor only "more is better". What would you say is a decent armor rating to start tanking icc 10?

    5) Is there something as too much threat? If i spam Icy Touch, can I put the other tank in trouble because he can't outaggro me? Where should I be standing in aggro comparatively to the other tank in a raid ? (I've only used Omen so far for threat)

  2. @thorrinwolfgank

    There is no need to go DW talents, its simply a waste of 6 talents that could be put into something more important.
    Going deep frost is even more wasted talents, if you are refering to any build that goes for Howling Blast.
    While DWing Milthrios you would go for the Blood build that doesnt take Heart Strike and focuses on a bit more avoidance (with or without Icy Talons aura).

    Aggro on single target > Spam Icy Touch.
    Aggro on AoE > DnD and spam Icy Touch and Rune Strike on targets you have least threat on.

    Nothing else will increase your threat, i really dont know how many times i will need to say this.
    Howling Blast is just a normal ability that does almost no threat since its dmg is not so great.
    Icy Touch has a huge threat multiplier.
    Rune Strike has a great threat multiplier.
    DnD is the only aoe ability with any kind of threat multiplier on a DK.
    The only 3 abilities that matter when it comes to DK tanking, rest of them are just buying time while these are off CD.

    The reason you want to have a MACE equiped on a DWARF is MACE SPECIALISATION, aka free 5 expertise.
    If you want to go for Gloren, race change to human.
    This is pure minmaxing, if you want you can go Gloren, Bryntroll, Crypt on any race tbh, its all up to you.

  3. @firzenn

    Read the spell. AotD makes you reduce all dmg done to you based on your Dodge and Parry chance. So if you have 20% dodge and 20% parry you will reduce all incoming dmg by 40% while casting AotD, and on top of that you can follow it with Death Pact and heal for a lot if you notice you will die to 0 heals and that 40% reduction wont save you.

    Talent trees are NOT broken IN THE FIRST COMMENT of the guide. I put red fkin letters at the start of the guide and i keep getting asked this question. PLEASE READ.
    Mark of Blood is 1 wasted talent. It heals wont ever save anyone. There is not a single boss in whole wotlk expansion where Mark of Blood is usefull.

    Sindragosa and Halion are the only two bosses where you should go for 26-56 expertise since when they get parry hasted, they could kill you.
    As for the other bosses, its all personal choice. You can go 6 expertise or 26 expertise. I prefer to go 26 since at the point i am with gear (bis) i will more likely die to a dodged Death Strike than to overkill by 499hp.

    While gearing all you want to do is reach 540 def rating asap. You cant chose or min max on any other stat since you lack gear. Most of the time and at any point of gearing if you have 2 items (of a same slot, aka 2 belts, 2 helms, 2 rings...) and one gives you extra armor while other gives avoidance, going for one that gives extra armor is always a better choice.

    Just spam IT.
    If you are main tanking its better to have high threat, so when the time to heal starts, you dont have to worry about that.
    If you are offtanking its best to be 2nd on threat so if a main tank dies, you dont have to risc a dps getting oneshoted if you are slow on taunt.
    The only thing you have to worry is not to overagro a main tank if you are offtanking.
    Omen is great.

  4. Alright I had not see the talent trees, apparently this is exactly what I have so perfect I guess
    Last question:
    If i had enough VP, what would be the 1 item I should get from vote points that is annoying to get as tank according to you?

  5. Alright I had not see the talent trees, apparently this is exactly what I have so perfect I guess
    Last question:
    If i had enough VP, what would be the 1 item I should get from vote points that is annoying to get as tank according to you?
    According to Gnimo oldman, weapon should be BH, so trinket it is that you should get.
    There are two nice ones from Ulduar: Royal Seal of King Llane and Heart of Iron.
    Not too expensive, and don't let GS deceive you, these are better than Ick's Thumb from POS.

  6. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=46021
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45158

    These two are great trinkets you can use untill u get BiS trinkets from ToC champs 25m norm/hc and Sindra norm/hc.
    Royal Seal of King Llane is what would i get over Heart of Iron, since its easyer to kill Ignis than it is to kill Yogg Saron.
    If you wont do Ignis ever, just get them both if you can.

    Trinkets you should farm (in case you can get only 1 trinket with points):
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47216 TOC 5m
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=37220 Azjol-Nerub 5m

    Trinkets you can buy:
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=42341

  7. Thanks, I was already considering farming The Black heart, I'll probably get Royal Seal when i reach enough VP

  8. Great guide, been using it, and it helped me a lot.

    I was wondering, I have 3 trinkets now. I've been using
    https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50356 and https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=47735 for a while now, but yesterday I've received
    https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50341

    Something tells me that third trinket isn't necessarily good for a DK, but my guildies tell me it's better than Glyph of Indomitability. What do you think?

    Also if it's not a problem and you have it already, to make a list of best items in slot like from this guide:

    http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=274665

    EDIT: This is my DK. https://armory.warmane.com/character...ecrown/summary

    When I replaced my previous 245 chest piece, I lost a lot of expertise. Before that I barely managed to cap both hits and expertise (spell hit is literally on 17.00%)

    Is it worth changing my gems even more so I can reach the expertise cap? At the moment I have 19 expertise.
    Edited: January 24, 2019

  9. Great guide, been using it, and it helped me a lot.

    I was wondering, I have 3 trinkets now. I've been using
    https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50356 and https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=47735 for a while now, but yesterday I've received
    https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50341

    Something tells me that third trinket isn't necessarily good for a DK, but my guildies tell me it's better than Glyph of Indomitability. What do you think?
    Ofc it's better. It has more armor and that dodge cd on organ's very weak. Organ has a proc that usually doesn't stack as much as you'd want it to, but still it's better than dodge. Some consider it to be the BiS armor trinket just because PTS has a dodge-based cd.

    Also if it's not a problem and you have it already, to make a list of best items in slot like from this guide:

    http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=274665
    Read the guide. There's a BiS list.

    EDIT: This is my DK. https://armory.warmane.com/character...ecrown/summary

    When I replaced my previous 245 chest piece, I lost a lot of expertise. Before that I barely managed to cap both hits and expertise (spell hit is literally on 17.00%)

    Is it worth changing my gems even more so I can reach the expertise cap? At the moment I have 19 expertise.
    Big yikes at your gearing. 17% spell hit is a ridiculous, ridiculous, ridiculous amount. First of, it seems like you're considering hit and expertise as mandatory stat caps - these are threat oriented stats and do not contribute to your personal survivability. At your gear level, you cannot afford to forgo survivability (loss in armor ring, armor legs, horrible gemming) for these stats.

    For hit, there are a few ways people cap it:
    - **** hit completely (not a good idea cause a missed taunt can wipe a raid) and go full EHP
    - cap spell hit at 6% from gear and maybe 1 or 2 10 hit / 15 stam gems + 3% from Boomkin / Spriest + 8% taunt spell hit Glyph of Dark Command
    - cap spell hit at 9% + 8% from Glyph of Dark Command [usually in 10 man groups without druids / spriests]
    - cap melee hit at ~8% to land Death Strikes
    * Virulence is a good talent for what you get out of it - cheap and easy to reach, 1 point giving 1% spell hit can help a lot with your threat

    Good hit items include:
    - t10 hands
    - GS10 HC ring
    - trash ring
    - vali 25 neck
    - cryptmaker
    - bpc shoulders
    - rep ring (GS10 ring has the same stam and nearly the same hit so I prefer not using this)
    - marrow 25 legs
    - bpc 25 cloak
    - lady 25 helmet
    - icc crafted boots
    - 40 hit food

    Expertise is also similar, and dodge cap, while not difficult to get, is only worth pursuing if you can get a chunk of it naturally from gear. Unless you are doing Heroic Sindragosa or Halion, the hard cap is not worth pursuing.

    Good expertise items:
    - EoF off-set chest
    - tier legs
    - dbs axe (better than bryntroll if both normal and you have no axe racial)
    - vali 25 boots
    - LK 25 tank weapons
    - 40 exp food
    - racials

    Use as many of these items as you want while keeping a very close eye on your survivability stats. The weapon and offsets you use will usually depend on your racial (unless you have an aesthetic racial, in which case these caps will be much tougher to "cap").

    A gemming priority to help you learn how to gem:
    - blue sockets always 30 stamina.
    - never socket pure expertise or hit gems in yellow or red, only hybrids with 15 stamina.
    - 10 hit / 15 stamina and 10 exp / 15 stamina gems are good to use in +9 stam sockets. If you are capped in hit and expertise, you can put 30 stam and ignore socket bonus or go for some avoidance / threat hybrid gems like 10 agi/str/def/dodge + 15 stam.
    - +6 stam socket bonuses is a personal preference and should usually be ignored but a few hybrid gems here don't hurt if you are close to capping.
    - all other useless socket bonuses like str (like what you did on your weapon) should be ignored.

    This is a link to how I gear my DK: https://bit.ly/2TixXfT

    Because of orc racial, I can easily cap dodge expertise with 3 hybrid gems and am at 7.99% melee hit (262 hit rating).

    Things I'm missing include HC variants of my gear (not possible for me to get atm because 25 HC is ****ing hard on Lorda), DBS 10 HC bracers, RS25 boots (although these I don't desperately want cos of the hit loss), Sindy 25 trinket.

    Things I swap out depending on fight may include t10 legs, ony 25 ring, ToC25 trinket (normal; I like this better than PTS but server has high armor requirement), vali 25 boots, pillars of might, full frost resist gear.
    Edited: January 24, 2019

  10. Unidentifiable Organ should be better.

    Dont expect me to spoon feed you with some useless "pre icc bis" list.
    There is only BEST IN SLOT gear that has only end game items in it.
    Naxx bis list, ToC bis list, prenaxx bis list, is something people that have way too much free time try to do.
    Get what you can and make the best use of it...
    At the point where you are gearing up, 1 item can completely change the stat priority, so even if i wanted to, i wouldnt been able to give you such a list anyway.
    I gave u a guideline of which stats you want to get the most asap, you work around that with what you have in your bags.

    As for your armory...
    I dont know why would u ever use 10expertise10hit, 20hit, 20expertise gems, nor the Nightmare Tear.
    I even said it in the guide: If you lack some hit or expertise rating, you gem 10hit15stamina or 10exp15stamina gems, nothing else.
    8% Melee hit and 26 Expertise is the point you dont want to go above (exceptions are Sindragosa and Halion, where you want 7% hit and 56 Expertise to avoid parry haste). The whole point of reaching those numbers is to be confident that 90% of your Death Strikes will land when you need them, so you can use them as a great survival tool.
    if you have trouble getting those numbers, 237 hit and 10-24 expertise will be enough if you ask me (and hope for the best)...
    I wont suggest going lower than 237 hit mainly cos of bad RNG on the pull and couple of missed Icy Touches that can result in top dps getting smacked. Same goes for going almost no expertise, where Death Strike that can save your life, or get you over 35% to activate Will of the Necropolis again, gets dodged and u die.

    What can you do to improve your overall stat balance?
    You need to lower that hit rating to 316, which is gear only (+10hit from Shoulders green gem, that will put you on 12% spell hit exactly, which is more than enough for everything atm). This means that you need A LOT of 30stamina gems.
    The only gem slots you should gem with Expertise are the Red ones that will give you +9 Stamina in return.
    No item that has +9 stamina in return with matching 1 gem with Yellow/Red color, should be gemmed with 30 stamina, that is just playing stupid.
    For example: gem Chest and Belt with 10exp15stamina and 30stamina, gem Shoulders with 10hit15stamina and 30stamina.
    Rest of the +6 in return items should be gemmed with pure 30 stamina gems, UNLESS you lack 10 hit or expertise rating to reach a certain amount, like 227 hit, or 10 expertise making you go from 16 to 18. In that case you should gem 1 item with 10hit/exp15stamina that gives you +6 stamina in return as a bonus, which is NOT the case for you atm!

    So, bottom line:
    Gem Chest and Belt with 10exp15stam and 30stamina.
    You can gem Shoulders with 10hit15stamina and 30stamina, 6 less stamina wont kill you, but i guess since you have way too much hit from gear, you can gem it with 2x 30stamina (11.66% spell hit is MORE than enough anyway).
    Rest of the gear should be 30stamina only.
    You will be on low Expertise but there is nothing you can do about it, except to hope for ICC VDW Feet to drop for example, or to get T10 legs from VoA/Emblems of Frost.

  11. Thanks for replies. Yeah I know the gems are messy, but I needed them for my caps. So apparently for a DK, 12 % spell rating is more than enough, I don't need 17%? I won't on purpose use that glyph for Dark Command because I find the others much more useful. Considering that, is 12 % still good?

    ATM my expertise is 19, and it will stay low for the considering future, unless i get a 264+ mace or sword, or items with expertise in general.

    Also which of the t10 items should I be going for? I already got the chest piece, now I'm aiming for a lucky drop from VOA 25, the gloves and pants. Are the t10 headgear and shoulders bis/almost for me?

    I'll gem the pieces now as were suggested, will update my post with what stats I got in end.

    Update: Ok so I changed only 3 gems with the Guardian's Dreadstone, 10exp and 15sta. There aren't any more on the AH. My spell rating dropped from 17.00% to 15.50%, so it seem's I'm still safe with replacing the hit gems with stamina.

    I think as of now, I'll just gem with Solid Majestic Zircon 30sta and Guardian's Dreadstone 10exp 15sta.
    Edited: January 27, 2019

  12. You want the minimum amount of hit that will guarantee your taunt to land on any target. You can go really low on this depending on how you glyph/spec. Any hit past that (whatever that value may be for you) is an extremely small bonus to survivability (if you're below hit cap) and a tps increase (which you're unlikely to need).

    How to figure out how much you need as a minimum? Just do

    17 - w/e bonuses you have from glyph/talent

  13. OK, so I replaced the gems, spent 5k gold on corrections... I left Accurate Ametrine in yellow sockets, as I need expertise and because of the +6 stamina bonus.

    Expertise is on 21, spell rating is 14.40%. Still can afford to lower the hit rating, but seeing how if I change any piece of gear again, it will mess up all of my cap stats again... For the moment I'll be saving Frost emblems for that t10 headgear, and hoping the t10 gloves/pants drop from VOA 25. Might donate in future for that Glorenzelg, just because.

    Edit: Yeah did the calculation for https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50730

    Just by equiping it, I would gain 16 (!!) expertise. No wonder ppl can then put 30 stamina gems on everything lol.
    Edited: January 27, 2019

  14. OK, got new gloves, boots and sword. https://armory.warmane.com/character...ecrown/summary

    I got expertise capped, and almost 17 % spell rating again with them. Even though supposedly I don't need more than 12 % at all...

    I was looking at talents, and I was wondering, do we really need 2 points in Two Handed Weapon Specialization? Those 2 points could easily go for Mark of Blood and 1 more on Spell Deflection. Also I figured it'd be better if instead of Black Ice, you put 2 points in Icy Reach. Also the glyph for Horn of Winter is basically useless because it lasts for 2 minutes, and you can refresh it every 20 seconds either way. The talents and glyphs should be like this then.

    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...g0xVMhz:phi0mV

    Also, what do you think about Bloodworms and Lichborne? Are they worth getting it or not, as they seem to be really situational.

  15. OK, got new gloves, boots and sword. https://armory.warmane.com/character...ecrown/summary

    I got expertise capped, and almost 17 % spell rating again with them. Even though supposedly I don't need more than 12 % at all...
    You really don't seem to understand the whole spell hit cap thing. I'll try to give some details so you can invest more into survivability stats. For a spell to land 100% of the time on a target lvl 83 (boss targets) you need to have 17% total spell hit rating. This includes talents, charracter tab spell hit (when you hit the button "C" and go to "spells" or was it "ranged", idr).

    Taunt glyph provides you with 8 out of the needed 17. That means that your character needs to account for the remaining 9% if he wants to have a guaranteed taunt. Virulence (3/3) will (if you spec it) account for another 3%, leaving you with just 6% (or 9 if you don't spec it) spell hit from gear. What does this mean for you. Well you can go to a really low level of hit from gear, whatever amount gives you 6% (or 9 with no virulence) in your character panel for spell hit and you'll be capped, which in turn means that you won't have to spend any gem slots/enchants/food on +hit.

    In theory you can go even lower due to how moonkins and spriests debuff targets for an extra 3% spell hit, but since it's not guaranteed that you'll have this up on every target (shamblings on LK is a great example) it's unsafe to go for 3% spell hit from gear.

    Bear in mind that spell hit and melee hit are tied. They're just calculated using different formulas. 1% of spell hit needs less hit rating than 1% of melee hit. But outside of that there isn't any differenec when you're calculating how to reach either cap. It all depends a lot on what you want to do exactly. Generally as a tank you really do want to cap your taunts. For paladins and warriors any hit past spell hit cap is just extra threat. For dks and druids (Death strike and Savage defense) it's a small bump to your survivability.

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