I will just say that some classes are limited and are not meant to do the things people want them to.
Cat will never bark, it does not matter how much you try to teach it.
Blood DK will never have a "good" AoE threat, in comparison to other Tank specs, and will always lose aggro on multiple targets when a Fury warrior or a Ret paladin is going full burst AoE damage mode.
As for Improved Icy Talons, it is up to you to be honest...
Maybe that 1 FDK dies, and you kind of wont gain anything special in return if you skip that talent.
https://wotlkdb.com/?talent#j0EMqIhcsbobsZhg0xcMhZ0x - more avoidance
https://wotlkdb.com/?talent#j0EMqIhcsbobsZhg0xcMoZ0g - more Death Strikes
Wont change much or affect anything to be honest.
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Wind of Northrend
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Member
Bro... Never say never!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aP3gzee1cps
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Member
Hi. I can see you normally specc 5/5 Killing Machine rather than any points in Glacier Rot.
I currently specced
2/5 Killing Machine
3/3 Glacier Rot
1/5 Anticipation (UH) this is where I get the additional point for frost from.
Killing machine does not give any % for the crit procc while with glacier rot I get a fixed amount of +20% dmg on icy touch.
In the end both talents are there to increase the icy touch dmg and therefor increas threath.
Does 5/5 Killing Machine actually increase your icy touch dmg (on average) more than the 20% from glacier rot?
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Wind of Northrend
Killing Machine DOUBLES the damage of Icy Touch.
You have more than enough Threat generation without Glacier Rot.
On top of that, my play style used to be: "do as much Death Strikes as you can while maintaining good aggro (KM 5/5 and Heart Strike)".
This means that I want Killing Machine to procs during the time I use Death Strikes, so I can have a huge aggro boost from 1 Icy Touch.
You need 1 proc from Killing Machine to have "2 Icy Touches" using 1 Frost Rune (since Crits on a Death Knight do double of normal damage done).
You need to cast 5 normal hit Icy Touches for Glacier Rot to get you that "1 extra" Icy Touch on the target.
This was also always my logic on the talent difference.
If you have aggro issues, the best way to "fix" it is with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40822, which you can get instantly, by doing 3-4 easy quests.
If I remember well, this Sigil alone is around 10% damage increase on Icy Touch.
Glacier Rot with Killing Machine on top of it is for sure an awesome thing, but it all depends on how often you get KM proc with 2/5 and with 5/5.
If the 2/5 KM under procs a lot in comparison to 5/5, I doubt Glacier Rot will be a better choice.
I never cared enough to test this myself, if you do it feel free to post the results, if I am wrong I will gladly change my mind and improve. :D
Again, from my point of view, you can maintain awesome aggro without Killing Machine and without Glacier Rot, I just find personally that Killing Machine boosts my already awesome Threat generation by a lot in an instant, where Glacier Rot feels like an "constant overkill".
Its like you making 10k TPS, while second in line makes 5k TPS, why would u ever want 12k TPS, you are already ahead (this is just an example, these are not actual numbers of how TPS goes and works on a DK tank, before some mangal starts to go bananas).
You would want to let yourself cast as many Death Strikes as possible, while the second in line DPS/tank starts to get close to you, and with a single KM+IT get back where you were before the Death Strike spam.
On multiple targets Glacier Rot also wont help, since you need to cast 2 Icy Touches in order to get 20% boost on the second one, while with Killing Machine proc, you instantly have a "double" Icy Touch on any target regardless if it has Frost Fever on it or not.
Overall, it is a personal preference, and a matter of play style, since you should not have any aggro issues even without any of these talents.
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Member
Hi, thanks for this guide, I read it all and searched on the replys for, but didnt find anything about the ony25 ring, Signified Ring of Binding as a possibility in some fights, what you guys think?
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Member
WotLK Best frost tank dk ( dual hand) ICC raid talent
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=432178
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Forum Veteran
You won't even get into proper ICC with this joke of a spec.
Or you realy think that people will take you seriously with such attitude of a clown?
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Member
Time to burn those fat on my tauren that I ve created years ago just after moltdown. Lets see if he is able to tank after using this guide.
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Member
Hey nice guide i really apreciate it! But wich race you recommend for tank? I mean tauren health bonus vs stoneform wich will beneficiate more? Does one racial buff better a spec more than other? Hope you answer:)
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Member
Races dont matter much pick whichever looks best for you.
Tauren racial is counted without stam from gear. (just naked 80 char + 5%hp) - but still best horde race
Orc probably if you want to pvp as well.
Troll tends to be best dps racial.
on ali you have more options dwarf, human, nelf, dreanei - all of them offer something of survivability value.
Dwarf will be really good if you want to play Bryntoll (free expertise = more threat and lower chance of getting your selfheal dodged). + stoneform
Human if you want to pvp sometimes as well (free expertise with gloren)
Nelf - extra 2% chance to be missed (avoidance is worse than EHP, but 2% is good amount to get just from race).
Dreanei - 1% hit + small self heal
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Wind of Northrend
Depends highly on the weapon choice to be honest, from my point of view.
Horde:
Axe > Orc (Bryntroll or Shadowmourne)
Anything else > Tauren (Cryptmaker or Glorenzelg)
Alliance:
Sword > Human (Glorenzelg)
Mace > Dwarf (Cryptmaker)
1% hit > Draenei (Cryptmaker or Glorenzelg or Bryntroll or Shadowmourne)
Also depends on if you care about Expertise for Death Strikes
(26 expertise since it reduces both Dodge and Parry chance up to that point so it has some what of a "double" value),
or you want to go for minimum glyphed Taunt hit chance (9% hit from gear+talents+racials) and maxing out Armor and HP after that.
Overall racials wont make any difference, so chose the one you prefer based on looks or stats you want to chase at "BIS" gear.
I would personally chose Orc on Horde, in case I ever decide to PvE dps and/or PvP,
Human if I ever want to PvP on Alliance, or Draenei if I want to PvE only, since its great for both Tank and DPS specs.
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Member
Man this class is insane, after maining as paladin tank for so long, never felt this much overpowered since I started trying it 1,5 weeks ago. The self healing, varierity of minor cd s are too op when used in correct time even though lacking a bit armor from not having a shield. Aoe threat sux maybe but where in the hell its important that much anyway. Great guide and a great class.
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Member
Hello. I’m somewhat new to dk ranking and I absolutely love this guide. I do have one issue... Gnimo said https://wotlkdb.com/?talent#j0EMqIbIcbobsoZhg0xVMcz this build is good for raids. However I noticed that he has not put points in aniticipation as well as in frigid dreadplate losing 5% avoidance. He said that this build is for more threat but Dk’s don’t need more threat as they can icy touch all day long and have lot of threat. So what benefit does this build have compared to the other avoidance build?
I don’t mean to be rude. I’m new to dk tank. Just wanted to ask this. Thank you
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Wind of Northrend
Highly depends on what content you are facing and your itemisation.
If you are BIS and are doing 30% buff ICC runs, you can chose whichever spec you want.
If you are NOT geared to the teeth, the extra avoidance can save you, but its RNG.
Than again, if you are not BIS, extra TPS might be what you need...
Most people nowadays play DK without even using Death Strikes, spamming Icy Touch and using def CDs is all they do.
Regardless of spec, you can keep aggro and have a good amount of Death Strikes in times of danger.
So, in the end, its up to you to decide which one you will chose to use.
Extra TPS is not useless on a DK regardless of gear.
Frost Rune is needed for both Icy Touch and Death Strike.
More TPS = more Death Strikes when you need them without the fear of losing aggro.
Know this tho, Glyph of Disease is useless if you wont use Death Strikes.
The point of Glyph of Disease is also to maximise the use of Death Strikes when you are taking huge chunks of damage, if you dont care about that, just use another glyph.
So if you are maxing out EHP and are hardly using Death Strikes, Taunt, Vampiric Blood and Rune Tap are the major glyphs you want.
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Member
Hello, fellow DK players! I've been reading this thread thoroughly and still can't understand if Frost DK is a legit tank spec for an endgame content like ICC or RS. I know, I know, the common opinion is that Blood is the best, but being the best doesn't necessarily mean being the only option available (in my opinion DK is not the best class overall for tanking to begin with, but hey, that's only my opinion and as you can see it certainly doesn't stop people from tanking with DKs, isn't it?).
So I wanna know if Frost is just inferior to Blood but still fully able to tank endgame bosses or is it not viable at all and will fail miserably like a Fury Warrior in tanking gear or something like that?Edited: March 6, 2021
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