1. That Blood is the best go-to spec 90% of the time.
    A frost Death Knight says hi and asks you what you really know about mitigation. Following your statements, apparently nothing.

  2. Do you know anything about EHP? Or tanking at all, for that matter.

  3. That Blood is the best go-to spec 90% of the time
    Last I checked, 30% nerf ICC and Chill of the Throne doesn't apply to 90% of the expansion's content. Your argument is only applicable to one raid. One raid out of seven. (And that doesn't even fully apply to Lordaeron.)
    And even if the real universal number here was 90%, "you will not use Unholy 90% of the time" does not equal "NEVER".
    Well i wanted to make all in one tank guide with this thread, the only reason i didnt add Unholy Talents or how to play it is cos i dont consider it usefull compared to other two specs. Its playable as Blood DK DPS is, but if u can chose out of 3 specs, u should chose for eather Blood or Frost for tanking (Unholy or Frost for DPSing).

    Il work on this guide this weekend and add Unholy tank part aswell if anyone is interested in trying it out i guess...
    You're right. It's not as useful as the other two specs. But this is because the largest part of the raiding playerbase raids ICC almost exclusively. Unholy is certainly useful for content prior and post ICC. Over-gearing content makes any of the specs perfectly fine prior to ICC. However, a gearing-up player who is doing progression (guilds like Prestige come to mind) will find Unholy very useful. Unholy is also a great off-tank for RS, as Chuggs mentioned earlier in the thread.

    I would point out that your audience, while your target may be that of Icecrown, does include Lordaeron and progression guilds on Lordaeron&Icecrown too.

    If you want to add that to your guide, then I'm sure it will be a welcome addition to a variety of people. :)

  4. Last I checked, 30% nerf ICC and Chill of the Throne doesn't apply to 90% of the expansion's content. Your argument is only applicable to one raid. One raid out of seven.
    The 30% buff and the dodge debuff are not the main reasons Blood is better. Those have very little to do with it. More RNG dodges to possibly boost Bone Shield's uptime doesn't do anything about not having Will of the Necropolis. Also, any Unholy tank spec built around tanking bosses is going to feature talents like Rune Tap so the 30% extra healing goes for both specs.

  5. So you're saying Blood is objectively better than Unholy solely because of Will of the Necropolis? Please tell me you aren't serious.

  6. Do you know anything about EHP? Or tanking at all, for that matter.
    EHP is included under the category of mitigation. It's one of the topics that is always subject to discussion when it comes to mitigation arguments, however, declaring that EHP is the #1 topic under that same category seems a little bit naive, especially, when it comes from such a self-proclaimed elite player. Now, I'm going to respect Gnimo for the time invested in this thread, I'm not going to provide you a spotlight. The true theorycrafting was already squished and chewed up to the point that it already got up to the number 7.2 and, for some particular reason, you're still stuck in the past recycling the words used by the true elite of 2009.
    Edited: March 31, 2017

  7. Being that Will of the Necropolis is one of the only tanking talents deep enough in the Blood Tree (alongside Vampiric Blood but all other specs have their "equivalents") to be completely out of reach of any other spec of tank, yeah that is absolutely the main reason.

    Having what effectively amounts to 6.2% more total health inherently baked into your character is a massive deal. No other DK tank spec has an equivalent to that kind of passive EHP that applies to both physical and spell damage.

  8. EHP is included under the category of mitigation. It's one of the topics that is always subject to discussion when it comes to mitigation arguments, however, declaring that EHP is the #1 topic under that same category seems a little bit naive, especially, when it comes from such a self-proclaimed elite player. Now, I'm going to respect Gnimo for the time invested in this thread, I'm not going to provide you a spotlight. The true theorycrafting was already squished and chewed up to the point that it already got up to the number 7.2 and, for some particular reason, you're still stuck in the past recycling the words used by the true elite of 2009.
    "I'm going to use the fact that there's no longer an established "theorycrafting" community centered around 3.3.5 content to fill that vacuum with my unrestrained BS instead, and when some imposter comes along and argues against me I'll just claim myself to be the one and only true champion of the great theorycrafters from the time of retail."

  9. "I'm going to use the fact that there's no longer an established "theorycrafting" community centered around 3.3.5 content to fill that vacuum with my unrestrained BS instead, and when some imposter comes along and argues against me I'll just claim myself to be the one and only true champion of the great theorycrafters from the time of retail."
    Seems like something you do on a daily basis, according to your post history. However, if you want me to be specific, you're declaring that 90% of the times Blood DK's reign supreme. That, by itself, declares that you're only focusing yourself on a single raid called Icecrown Citadel. That has a name; Ignorance.
    You should know by now, that:

    Unholy; Based on avoidance with a massive AoE threat and anti-magic tanking.
    Blood; Straight Stamina and self-healing with single target threat focus.
    Frost; Mitigation, CC and snap aggro.

    Now, if we want to be even more technical and a true top tier player, we would know that each fight requires a specific approach unless you overgear them with best in slot gear and with a 30% debuff to Icecrown Citadel, however, at this point there's no need to theorycraft anything since your gear, by itself, will carry you through the content.
    If you're aware of the term progression, you would know that players would be benched in order to bring in the most optimal raiding comp possible for progression. If I'm required to be even more technical than this, I'm sorry, I'm not willing to waste my time with you. Quoting your own words, I really don't have the time to waste my time with an "imposter niche theorycrafter".
    Edited: March 31, 2017

  10. "Damage that would take u below 35% health..."
    "Damage taken while u are at 35% heath..."
    "Damage that would take u below 35% health or taken while you are at 35% is reduced by 15%."

    I dont know if all of u people cant read or understand how this talent works.
    This talent is op and broken. U want it more than anything.
    Like seriously, if u have 50k HP, this talent becomes active if u get hit by any melee that puts u below 17.5k HP. Its practicly a constant defencive Cooldown in 25m HC ICC.

    On top of that, on ur way to this talent u have:
    Hysteria, one of the BEST offencive cooldowns for Rogues/Ferals/Frost DKs.
    Improved Death Strike.
    Vampiric Blood, one of the best defencive cooldowns when u take what u get, for how long u get it, and its cooldown into account.

    Please do explain to me what u get in other trees thats even close to these talents on ur way to ur major tanking talents.
    On top of that u have 28 talents to spend in other trees after u reach WotN. U can Basicly get both Dodge and Miss chance talents on top of that, or go for those aggro talents so u can spam more Death Strikes...

    Every spec is playable yes, every spec has its uses, BUT, when we talk about THE ABSOLUTE BEST DK TANKING SPEC, we are talking about Blood that goes till WotN.

    @fatsousage
    Please do share ant info that might prove me wrong. Investing time and sharing wrong information is a wasted timr if u ask me. If there is something i dont know id like to know so i can edit the guide. The whole point, as said, was to give all info to new players so the can have a shortcut and not waste their time on searching for all the info out there...
    I wont comment on the "real elite from 2009" and such comments at all.

    Edit: had to fix some bugged android ****.
    Edited: March 31, 2017

  11. Please do explain to me what u get in other trees thats even close to these talents on ur way to ur major tanking talents.
    I have. Numerous times. There's even a thread dedicated to it. But it seems that nobody seems to pay any attention to that because it breaks their arguments.
    Every spec is playable yes, every spec has its uses, BUT, when we talk about THE ABSOLUTE BEST DK TANKING SPEC, we are talking about Blood that goes till WotN.
    That's simply not the case, but fine. (I guess we'll just disregard things such as world first firestarter and such.) I will duck out of this conversation and leave you guys to your "my spec is best cuz reasonz".

  12. @Mercy
    I actualy said why i consider Bloof is the best and linked what it gives. I didnt see u doin the same but yea, agree to disagree.

    @fatsousage
    U should never take a DK for AoE tanking. There are better classes for that.
    AMZ and Improved AMS wont make UH special to magic dmg tanking.
    As for Frost, only thing u have over Blood is 2% extra DMG reduction from Imp Frost Presence.
    And as for aggro, u can get almost all aggro talents from Frost Tree as Blood.

    U dont have to be a pro elite player to read talents and compare them.

  13. Every spec is playable yes, every spec has its uses, BUT, when we talk about THE ABSOLUTE BEST DK TANKING SPEC, we are talking about Blood that goes till WotN.
    Each spec has a specific encounter where they reign supreme, I agree. There's no absolute best DK tanking spec, though. The main reason why people generalize that Blood is the best tanking spec out there it's thanks to the announcement made by Blizzard back in 3.3.3 where it was stated that Blood would be the only tanking spec designed for Death Knights in Cataclysm. Thanks to that, a lot of people stereotyped the idea that Blood was the only viable and reliable spec for tanking during the following patches pre-cataclysm.

    @fatsousage
    U should never take a DK for AoE tanking. There are better classes for that.
    AMZ and Improved AMS wont make UH special to magic dmg tanking.
    As for Frost, only thing u have over Blood is 2% extra DMG reduction from Imp Frost Presence.
    And as for aggro, u can get almost all aggro talents from Frost Tree as Blood.

    U dont have to be a pro elite player to read talents and compare them.
    DK's, alongside with Paladins, are actually quite strong when it comes to AoE threat generation. However, keep in mind that I'm talking while generalizing the Retail like experience and not keeping in consideration the multiple bugs that Warmane had/has when it came to DK's.

    Declining the crucial factor that you're being provided with more magical damage resistances as Unholy doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Unholy is really strong and capable of surpressing magical damage. Take a look at their mitigation results after a Blood Queen fight while rotating their cooldowns properly. You'll understand after watching the huge damage reduction.

    Frost DK's have a superior mitigation all around since they don't heal as much as a Blood Tank. Now, we're going to go down the road of what's best; Static mitigation vs Self-healing. That boils down to a personal preference.

    You're wrong on the threat discussion. Frost DK's are excellent at "snapping threat". They generate a ridiculous ammount of threat in a time space of 3/4 seconds. Such a ridiculous ammount of threat that not even a Protection Paladin with avenging wrath and with a proper burst opener can take it away from them. Same case doesn't apply to Blood DK's. I would suggest you to download Omen and check out the difference of threat generation that you make in the time window of 5 seconds.
    Edited: March 31, 2017

  14. http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0ER...obsZhxbxcMhZ0x
    Every boss has a Melee Hit and some kind of Spell DMG. If this doesnt cover everything u need for tanking each boss in WotLK, i dont know what does...

    Edit:
    I know things wer dandy on retail but this is more or less how things work here. And thats what il focus on. No point doin something that worked on retail that doesnt work here.
    When it comes to Blood vs Frost vs Unholy il tell u this.
    There is not a single boss that u failed to tank as Blood and said, i wish i was Unholy cos i wouldve survive this or that.
    U cant tank Halion or Lich King with Unholy spec as good as u can do it with Blood spec.
    Edited: March 31, 2017

  15. I know things wer dandy on retail but this is more or less how things work here. And thats what il focus on. No point doin something that worked on retail that doesnt work here.
    When it comes to Blood vs Frost vs Unholy il tell u this.
    There is not a single boss that u failed to tank as Blood and said, i wish i was Unholy cos i wouldve survive this or that.
    U cant tank Halion or Lich King as Unholy as good as u can do it as Blood.
    Like I've addressed in my previous post, obviously there ain't a single boss that you'll fail to tank if you're overgearing it. However, there's also something that we need to keep in consideration: Optimization. There are fights where you'll want to optimize yourself and where some specs and talents will perform better than others. I'm not declaring that you won't be able to do the fight unless you're in that spec either, I'm just declaring that making such a strong statement (Blood reigns supreme) seems too much.

    Picking one of your examples, Halion, is one of the bosses where Unholy beats Blood in terms of optimization and performance since avoidance is one of the most effective counters. Unholy is also the best DK spec to tank the multiple adds that spawn during the encounter for obvious reasons: Massive and constant AoE threat alongside with desecration.
    Edited: March 31, 2017

First 12345 ... Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •