Faction balance

[tehosiriss]

TBC = horde
the only appeal of alliance were paladins
trolls = best caster racial
taurens = best tank racial
endgame = warlocks clicking shadowbolt

[nakedlunch]

dwarf priest is still the best discipline priest - chastice

[Mercy]

TBC = horde
the only appeal of alliance were paladins
trolls = best caster racial
taurens = best tank racial
endgame = warlocks clicking shadowbolt

Tauren do not have the best tank racial when CDs or additional avoidance are required (the bulk of TBC content, ESPECIALLY during the gearing/progression process).
Nevermind how stupid The Human Spirit is for Holy Priests, or Diplomacy is for doing reps and attunements.

[Ostlimpa]

dwarf priest is still the best discipline priest - chastice

No best priest is Troll. Shadowguard + Blackout in PvP combined with R1 Hex or max rank vs melee. Not to mention Berserking+PI which allows for 1,5 sec Mind Controls, Greater Heals etc.
Tauren got the best survival racial. Troll tanks do a bit more dps. Orc is in the middle of both of em.
Human spirit is OP for holy priests indeed. However Berserking+Prayer is just insane.

[Mercy]

combined with R1 Hex or max rank vs melee.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Hex
Patch 3.0.2 (2008-10-14): Added.
Am I missing or misunderstanding something?

Tauren got the best survival racial. Troll tanks do a bit more dps. Orc is in the middle of both of em.

"Tauren got the best survival racial"
Stoneform says hello.

"Troll tanks do a bit more dps"
With hasted auto attacks during berserking? I hope you're expertise hard-capped, else you're going to increase the issue with parry-haste.
Funny thing that I mention expertise, when there are two Alliance races that have expertise racials. One of which I just referenced in the previous quote.

Human spirit is OP for holy priests indeed. However Berserking+Prayer is just insane.

This here emphasizes your obvious bias.

[warillion]

This here emphasizes your obvious bias.[/QUOTE]

so stats mean nothing? mana regeneration was huge in TBC. I mained a holy priest in TBC the entire expansion and maximizing the 5 second rule with inner focus to maximize mana regeneration was so so huge. If we could get some numbers to compare regin with and without the priest 5%, that would be nice. Otherwise, stats mean something.

[Mercy]

Please read my previous post and his previous posts for context. He has been trying to argue that Horde>Alliance. I'm speaking from a similar standpoint as you.

[Ostlimpa]

Patch 3.0.2 (2008-1[QUOTE=Mercy;2798614]http://wow.gamepedia.com/Hex 0-14): Added.
Am I missing or misunderstanding something?[Yes you are indeed missing something /facepalm.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Hex_of_Weakness

"Stoneform says hello." And no bosses says hi. Go check other forums Mercy, this debate has been going on for years. The tauren racial has always come out on top. In the PvP world it is a different story, but the problem there is that Stoneform takes up a GCD.

"With hasted auto attacks during berserking? I hope you're expertise hard-capped, else you're going to increase the issue with parry-haste.
Funny thing that I mention expertise, when there are two Alliance races that have expertise racials. One of which I just referenced in the previous quote."
No it's not because of hasted auto attacks, but since you did not know about the priest spell I suppose it is pointless for me to try and explain why Berserking is so powerful in TBC.

"This here emphasizes your obvious bias."
I am not going to play Horde here. But I am not so naive as to deny the fact that Horde racials are far superior to Alliance ones in TBC. Like many others have said - check out other servers if you don't trust our PTR, the result will be the same.
And with that I close this dicussion.

Edit:@Wari: It is 10% for humans, the SoR talent is 5%. How can you guys even argue when you don't even know the spells, mechanics or the correct numbers?

[nakedlunch]

No best priest is Troll. Shadowguard + Blackout in PvP combined with R1 Hex or max rank vs melee. Not to mention Berserking+PI which allows for 1,5 sec Mind Controls, Greater Heals etc.

you dont really need troll stuff, if you play against resto druid... what you need is to chastice the druid so you can catch him and fear him, that is what wins the arena, so ye as i said for pvp the dwarf is the best

[Ostlimpa]

you dont really need troll stuff, if you play against resto druid... what you need is to chastice the druid so you can catch him and fear him, that is what wins the arena, so ye as i said for pvp the dwarf is the best

Hey Nakedlunch, did you know that there is more to the game than just arena? Can you believe it?:D

On topic, troll's Shadowguard combined with blackout is an extreme protection vs any direct damage dealer. That druid's moonfire, wrath, bash etc can mean a painful 3 sec stun in return. You should also know that blackout got different stun lines in TBC. Stuns from direct casts like SWP, stuns from direct hit (mind blast, swd) and passive ones from Touch of Weakness/Shadowguard.
As a troll you can also pull off deadly 1 sec mana burns, quick heals in peril or Mind Controls. You also get a lovely 5% damage increase vs them teddy bears and kitty cats. Did I forget to mention that Berserking got no GCD and that its spell haste combined with PI sets your GCD count to 1 sec?:)

With all this said, Dwarf priests got their moments, but you will find most people going UD for arena.

[molarlol]

Really hope they implement something for faction balance. Different realm queues / free mount or whatever.
Balanced factions would be a HUGE bonus for the server.

And why are people complaining about non-blizzlike? The server will most likely have a cash-shop anyway and u complain on free-mount being non-blizzlike?
The benefit from a free mount and 50/50 faction is so much better than 100% blizzlike and 10% Alliance online.

Just look at the guild recruitment section.. There WILL be a faction imbalance unless something is done. Just create an official faction poll if you don't believe it.

[Zarzamora]

profession boost for alliance maybe?

[Mercy]

Yes you are indeed missing something /facepalm.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Hex_of_Weakness

Why would you facepalm for me asking a question? You don't need to be rude.
How else should I know what you're referring to when you can't put forth the effort to type out the entire name of the ability?

"Stoneform says hello." And no bosses says hi. Go check other forums Mercy, this debate has been going on for years. The tauren racial has always come out on top. In the PvP world it is a different story, but the problem there is that Stoneform takes up a GCD.

You are aware that PvP isn't the only thing that matters, yes? Why you would want to PvP as a tank in TBC is beyond my comprehension anyway. You're trying to argue min/max, but then talking about gimping yourself with a chosen spec.

"With hasted auto attacks during berserking? I hope you're expertise hard-capped, else you're going to increase the issue with parry-haste.
Funny thing that I mention expertise, when there are two Alliance races that have expertise racials. One of which I just referenced in the previous quote."
No it's not because of hasted auto attacks, but since you did not know about the priest spell I suppose it is pointless for me to try and explain why Berserking is so powerful in TBC.

There's nothing else that haste does for a Prot Warrior.
But you're going to put me down and dismiss what I've said because I'm sorry I didn't catch what you meant by the shortening of a spell's name.
Again, rude. And attacking me in this manner tells me that you've run out of arguments.

"This here emphasizes your obvious bias."
I am not going to play Horde here. But I am not so naive as to deny the fact that Horde racials are far superior to Alliance ones in TBC. Like many others have said - check out other servers if you don't trust our PTR, the result will be the same.
And with that I close this dicussion.

What you choose to play does not mean there isn't bias. I don't really care about your precious other servers. Those shouldn't be brought into the discussion. Popularity does not equate to effectiveness or applicable situations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Edit:@Wari: It is 10% for humans, the SoR talent is 5%. How can you guys even argue when you don't even know the spells, mechanics or the correct numbers?

Could you say that again, but this time, in English? Oh, and please omit the part where you're trying to argue against people's statements because they don't understand what you're trying to say with your inappropriately abbreviated shorthand.

Hey Nakedlunch, did you know that there is more to the game than just arena? Can you believe it?:D

Funny, you argue against the guy with this, but then ignore the PvE aspect of Stoneform for tanks.

As a troll you can also pull off deadly 1 sec mana burns, quick heals in peril or Mind Controls. You also get a lovely 5% damage increase vs them teddy bears and kitty cats. Did I forget to mention that Berserking got no GCD and that its spell haste combined with PI sets your GCD count to 1 sec?:)

Did you know hasting those spells also possible to do with gearing for haste and/or having a haste trinket? Did you know that if you know how fake-cast, CC properly, or know how to distance yourself from your opponent, that the haste isn't even necessary? Did you also know that Feral Druids are also god-awful and uncommon as a result in pvp? Did you also happen to know that if you use Power Infusion and Berserking at the same time, that you should be slapped?

With all this said, Dwarf priests got their moments, but you will find most people going UD for arena.

Why? Is it because WotF requires less skill than Fear Ward to properly use? Is it because WotF has a shorter CD (nevermind that you can pre-apply Fear Ward...?)
Or is it because you think people prefer Cannibalize over Stoneform? lol



TLDR; Your bias shows because you're not willing to accept other people's opinions and keep projecting your own as superior due to anecdotal evidence based on popularity on "other servers".
And with that, I will end my conversation with you. There's nothing left to be said.

[Ostlimpa]

Why would you facepalm for me asking a question? You don't need to be rude.
How else should I know what you're referring to when you can't put forth the effort to type out the entire name of the ability?

There is only that Hex spell in TBC so why should I write out the entire name? Rude is also a bit too strong, disappointed is more like it.

You are aware that PvP isn't the only thing that matters, yes? Why you would want to PvP as a tank in TBC is beyond my comprehension anyway. You're trying to argue min/max, but then talking about gimping yourself with a chosen spec.

The ironic thing is that I was mainly speaking of PvE when I wrote that. In PvP Stoneform is very limited and hindered by its GCD vs those foes it actually help against.

There's nothing else that haste does for a Prot Warrior.
But you're going to put me down and dismiss what I've said because I'm sorry I didn't catch what you meant by the shortening of a spell's name.
Again, rude. And attacking me in this manner tells me that you've run out of arguments.

Nothing else huh? Then I would suggest you take a closer look on the spell combined with the 2.4.0 patch. You will understand eventually. If you are so hooked on the Hex spell and my distaste for your knowledge on it, flip the tables, I bet you would feel just the same.

What you choose to play does not mean there isn't bias. I don't really care about your precious other servers. Those shouldn't be brought into the discussion. Popularity does not equate to effectiveness or applicable situations.

I have never said that there will be no bias Mercy, on the contrary, I expect there will be a huge amount of it. The other servers can provide guidance and bring useful knowledge for Outland, do not go and repeat misstakes other servers did.

Could you say that again, but this time, in English? Oh, and please omit the part where you're trying to argue against people's statements because they don't understand what you're trying to say with your inappropriately abbreviated shorthand.

Spirit of Redemption, was it so hard?

Funny, you argue against the guy with this, but then ignore the PvE aspect of Stoneform for tanks.

Once again, the previous statement was more aimed on PvE than PvP.

Did you know hasting those spells also possible to do with gearing for haste and/or having a haste trinket? Did you know that if you know how fake-cast, CC properly, or know how to distance yourself from your opponent, that the haste isn't even necessary?

There are no spell haste trinkets for activation until Skull of Gul'dan. The only ones are proc chance ones (save for the pally lv 60 trinket hurr durr), and while they are good, they are much more difficult to make do of. The troll racial + PI is under your control and it forces the enemy to think twice before trying to bring you below 40% health which is the end cap on Berserking.

Did you also know that Feral Druids are also god-awful and uncommon as a result in pvp? Did you also happen to know that if you use Power Infusion and Berserking at the same time, that you should be slapped?

Okay this is the line that shows me you have not been to TBC lately Mercy and so this will be my last post in this little chat of ours. Feral druids are one of the most disgustingly OP classes of TBC. They have insane burst damage combined with high survival, CC rate and self heal + reset fight tools. They may not be all that impressive in arena, but in duels, BGs and World PvP they are just so over the top you will bang your head against a wall when you meet them, especially in the later part of TBC. Sadly their power starts already with T5.
Also why should I be slapped for using PI+Berserking? Or are you talking about an interrupt? You do realise that if you lock the holy line you get a mind control and vice versa right?

Why? Is it because WotF requires less skill than Fear Ward to properly use? Is it because WotF has a shorter CD (nevermind that you can pre-apply Fear Ward...?)
Or is it because you think people prefer Cannibalize over Stoneform? lol

There are many reasons but firstly because you get Fear Ward as all priests races in TBC, meaning you got 2x "fear wards" as undead and one of em cannot be dispelled and also lasts for 5 sec afterwards. This is why Wotf got nerfed so hard in Wotlk. Secondly DVP is very good for arena as shadow and touch of weakness is not bad either. Not to mention looks.

TLDR; Your bias shows because you're not willing to accept other people's opinions and keep projecting your own as superior due to anecdotal evidence based on popularity on "other servers".
And with that, I will end my conversation with you. There's nothing left to be said.

My bias? I am not baised but I am not blind to proof and facts. The horde racials are far better than those of the Alliance but that does not mean the Alliance racials got no use. They have their moments too. But making claims of how they are better than the horde ones in this manner is just wrong. But you are right about one thing, it is time for us to end this little chatter.
Best of luck on Outland Mercy, I am sure we will meet there.

[Gwola]

How about instead of complaining try to be solution to the problem and roll Alliance?

Just a thought.