1. May 1, 2017  

    SL/SL warlock question

    Ssup guys. Could you please push me in the right direction? With the upcoming Outland release I’m thinking of rolling a lock (main focus - PVP). I’ve never played a lock so please bear with me on this one. As I understand, SL/SL is a way to go about PVP. Seeing how popular and cheesy this build was at the time I’m surprised there is so little to be found about it on the net (or perhaps that’s the main reason).

    Anyway, I’ve found an interesting article: https://www.engadget.com/2008/04/05/...e-sl-sl-build/

    Which translates to this build: http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...00000000000000

    However, I can’t seem to find any additional info anywhere, like needed PVP stats. For example, what’s the needed spell pen (does it even exist in TBC)? Hit? Resilience? etc. What’s the stats priority? Does a SL/SL lock have a great need of crit%? From what I read dots can’t crit, right? Things like that. Basically I need a solid guide and some plain numbers to gear towards. Also, I’m curious what you guys think of the build I posted. Please advise. Thank you.

  2. May 4, 2017  
    Not a single answer huh? Let me water my question down to this then. What are the PVP caps in TBC? Please fill in/correct me on what I found myself thus far:

    Resilience cap - 492.5 (12.58%)

    Spell hit - 37.86 (3.00%)
    Chance to hit an equal level opponent is 96%. The best we can do here is to pump it up with 3%, because the highest value possible is 99%. Is this correct?
    - What role does 1 point in Suppression talent play in this build?
    - Why did I see someone mention 64 (5%) in PVP somewhere?

    Spell penetration: 70 (to bypass pala auras?)

    Crit - barely important because DOT’s are unable to crit.

    Haste - barely important because haste doesn’t increase DOT ticks.
    Edited: May 4, 2017

  3. May 5, 2017  
    Just stack dreadweave gear and get to resi cap.
    You could use some haste for your fears and all (a sl/sl actually casts from time to time).

  4. May 6, 2017  
    I'm curious about this too. I know on some other TBC servers Siphon Life was bugged to be reduced by resilience, when on official servers that was never the case. Has anyone tried SL/SL on Warmane yet?

  5. May 7, 2017  
    Resilience cap is 492.5, and you can extend that with Demonic Resilince talent (1 talent ~40 resilince, in terms of crit chance decrease). But you need to deal damage, no reason to get resil cap, something around 440-450 is enough.
    Pvp spell hit is 3%, thats correct. You can't bypass 99%, there are always 1% to miss in tbc.
    1 point in Suppression gives exactly what it tells, +2% hit.
    Someone mentioned 64 (actually 79) its pvp meele hit cap, 5%.
    One point of Spell penetration simply removes 1 resistance. Why there are number 70? Because priest's shadow protection gives 70 shadow resistance, paladian auras, and warlocks with maxed Master Demonologist has 70 bonus resistance.
    You dont need crit as sl lock in pvp.
    Haste is important only if you playing 3s with someone like mage and druid and need to spam fears.

  6. May 7, 2017  
    Thank you for some clarification Vexxed! I got confused because Suppression states that each point in the talent “reduces the chance for enemies to resist aff spells”. A spell “resisted” is, with other words, a spell that simply missed its target. Whereas spell penetration just negates enemy spell “resistance”, decreasing amount of damage which would be resisted.

    If that’s the case, then 1 Suppression point indeed equals 2% spell hit, out of 3% we need in PVP. So technically with that one point spent on this talent, we only need to obtain 1% spell hit from gear/gems and we’re done (99%), right? I ask this because I believe I saw someone post somewhere that it’s safe to invest more in this talent (3/5), because e.g. rogue have talents that can increase resistance against fear (max 10%) and talents that will reduce spell hit chance against them (max 4%). Is this true? And even so, is it really worth the trouble?

    Another thing, as long as I have your attention please :) What do you think about Nightfall vs Empowered Corruption? To me, at first glance, seeing how low SL/SL build is on burst Nightfall looked like a better deal. Until I realised Shadow Bolt isn’t an aff spell, so Suppression does nothing here. It also costs a lot of mana. Isn’t a consistent reliable damage boost to Corruption better overall then? Thanks!
    Edited: May 7, 2017

  7. May 7, 2017  
    Yes, 1 point of suppression + 1% spell hit is enough for pvp cap.
    The build that you linked is actually terrible, as I said before, you need to do damage. I'll be using something like this:
    http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...00000000000000
    You can swap imp curse of weaknes for 5/5 suppression, the reason for this as you mentioned, rogues have additional spell hit penalty with talent, and additional spell hit penetrates cloak of shadow, meaning you will have more chances to dot into cloak, that is crucial against 2dps with rogue for example.
    You need nighfall as well as other +dps talent from affliction. From that build you can swap 2 points of demonic resilince into affliction shadow mastery, if you can survive and you have no trouble healing pet.

    Dots are binary spells, meaning they only can hit or resist, resistance dont decrease damage but increase chances of resisting that spell. Formula is simple, (Resistance/350)*0.75, meaning if enemy has 70 resistance he will have around ~15% to resist any binary spell (dots, fear, curses). By having 1 spell penetration you decreasing resistance of enemy by 1.

  8. May 9, 2017  
    Thanks Vexxed! Some great suggestions. I did experiment with a few builds last night and I can definitely see why you’d go for improved and empowered curses. I do wonder about a couple of things though.

    Soul Siphon - To me this looks essential. Drains get some decent bonus from this talent.
    Master demonologist - To me, a bonus of 5/5 is too sweet to let go off.
    Fel concentration - 70% interruption avoidance at cost of 5 points feels painful, yet I wonder, can you really do without it? From what I read, people usually take this because of enemy pets in PVP.

    Thoughts?

    I also wonder about Curse of Weakness. Don’t we already have Curse of Exhaustion? Or is it meant to help you survive when you get jumped by 2 melees or against enemy pet? Then when you gain distance with fear you switch to COE? Or do you keep using COW against hunters? What's the deal here?

  9. May 9, 2017  
    You dont use drain life in arena pvp, unless its situation like enemy goes behind pillar and you need to keep doing some damage. Its always better to use something else.
    You can't pick full master demologist, because you need mana feed (you can sacrifice 1 point of demonic resilince tho). If you playing against comps that requiring non stop dispel (like priest rogue or ld mirror) your pet will run out of mana in first 2-3 mins. 1 point of master demonologist gives you 3% resist to binnary spells, so its not that crucial.
    Fel concentration is totally useless.
    CoW is just great to have (and the only alternative is 5/5 supression), 420 ap decrease is a huge number (expessialy in season1), on something like ruins if you are playing against priest rogue, its basically a free win if you CoW rogue and focus on priest. And its also good to have it in situation when someone is focusing your pet, and your healer is cced, or bm hunter pets.
    Edited: May 9, 2017

  10. May 19, 2017  
    Yes, 1 point of suppression + 1% spell hit is enough for pvp cap.
    The build that you linked is actually terrible, as I said before, you need to do damage. I'll be using something like this:
    http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...00000000000000
    You can swap imp curse of weaknes for 5/5 suppression, the reason for this as you mentioned, rogues have additional spell hit penalty with talent, and additional spell hit penetrates cloak of shadow, meaning you will have more chances to dot into cloak, that is crucial against 2dps with rogue for example.
    You need nighfall as well as other +dps talent from affliction. From that build you can swap 2 points of demonic resilince into affliction shadow mastery, if you can survive and you have no trouble healing pet.

    Dots are binary spells, meaning they only can hit or resist, resistance dont decrease damage but increase chances of resisting that spell. Formula is simple, (Resistance/350)*0.75, meaning if enemy has 70 resistance he will have around ~15% to resist any binary spell (dots, fear, curses). By having 1 spell penetration you decreasing resistance of enemy by 1.
    Terrible build

    I use

    http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...00000000000000

    Way better. Max every dps output.Put coa,Corruption,Siphonlife, Drain life until nightfall proc, Shadowbolt ennemies AND LOL = Dead

    Run around with Felhunter and Kill everything in BG and world pvp.

    You dont need Health Funnel and mana leech, Your felhunter wont die with my spec.

    My build is for world pvp and BG.

    Rogue is the only problem you encounter.
    Edited: May 19, 2017

  11. May 19, 2017  
    Obviously you guys suggest two different play styles. I’m not going to argue either because like I said I have no warlock experience whatsoever. What I wonder about at this point though:

    COA is a great damage dealer, BUT how often will you be using it realistically? With casters you’ll probably use COT most of the time, with melee I’m guessing COW, because COE will probably not cut it as you will be often slowed/pinned down yourself. It makes a lot more sense to me to throw improved COW on a feral, warr or a rogue instead of trying to run away from them when you have roots, hamstring or slowing poison on you. This combined with VW out gives you some chance against them, no? I’m guessing COA is the best choice when you’re not being targeted.

    Fel concentration - I’m assuming you won’t stand and drain when you are being beaten on? Is it really worth any points at all? From what I’ve tested so far enemy dots won’t break your channelling.

    So this is what I came up with:

    http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...00000000000000

    BGs will obviously be my main focus for quite a while before I learn how to pvp properly.

  12. May 19, 2017  
    Obviously you guys suggest two different play styles. I’m not going to argue either because like I said I have no warlock experience whatsoever. What I wonder about at this point though:

    COA is a great damage dealer, BUT how often will you be using it realistically? With casters you’ll probably use COT most of the time, with melee I’m guessing COW, because COE will probably not cut it as you will be often slowed/pinned down yourself. It makes a lot more sense to me to throw improved COW on a feral, warr or a rogue instead of trying to run away from them when you have roots, hamstring or slowing poison on you. This combined with VW out gives you some chance against them, no? I’m guessing COA is the best choice when you’re not being targeted.

    Fel concentration - I’m assuming you won’t stand and drain when you are being beaten on? Is it really worth any points at all? From what I’ve tested so far enemy dots won’t break your channelling.

    So this is what I came up with:

    http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...00000000000000

    BGs will obviously be my main focus for quite a while before I learn how to pvp properly.
    You dont need mana feed,your pet wont run out of mana in BG and world PVP, its better to have 3 points in demonic resilience its strenghteng your pet and you its like Free Resilience gear.

    If you use my spec, Your felhunter wont die, people wont even try to kill it since its op with the demonic talents maxed out. Its not like other expansion, Felhunter dont die.

    What i do is i roll in bg is with Felhunter with Silence on auto. My pet never run out of mana. Way better to put 1 more points in Demonic Resilience(thats like 40+ Resilience)

    As for Curse of weakness it useless since i use Curse of Agony all the time, When you Put Curse of agony + Corruption + Siphon life and + You drain life(It stack and increase with shadow embrace). If you want too even Put even more Pressure on the other player you can Trow Immolate for like 4 dots + the drain life = LOL

    This deal so much damage its crazy.

    The other player will try to kill you as fast as he can or just run away.Thats why i rather put 3 points in Fel concentration When you Drain life its better since it deal out Alot of damage and it can Proc Nightfall for Instant Shadow Bolt lol! This is crazy dps. The fel concentration Help with Rogue and warrior and Melee class who try to kill you, When they try to kill you you drainl life.

    The only class that will give you trouble in this Expansion is Rogue, nothing else.

    I remember i was in blues and greens, Killing Epic s1 players geared with this spec.
    Edited: May 19, 2017

  13. May 20, 2017  
    http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...00000000000000

    1 Point to put anywhere you like, Fel Concentration is probably a good choice.

    That's the spec I use. Imo not taking Amp.Curse and Curse of Exhaustion is a mistake, yes you want to be using Curse of Agony for damage but curse of exhaustion lets you kite melees if you time it well. Overall it's a nice tool to have, requires you to use your brain to make it an effective tool, but once you know how to use it it lets you kite melees for a few seconds. Also best tool against a rogue who used his ShS.

  14. Hey, I can't seem to buy the Dreadweave item sets from the proper NPC's, you know this problem? Thanks :)

  15. you said haste doesn't increase dot, you mean haste does'nt make you dot tick faster actually ?? If so, i wonder when blizzard implemented haste as making your dot ticking faster ? wotlk maybe ? i checked a website last week where a warlock gave haste caps to gain more ticks from dots in time but it didn't tell which expansion it was....

    or at least is there a way to negate the GCD with stacking haste for applying instantly dot line??
    Edited: August 14, 2017

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