Burning Crusade TBC Ret - Understanding seal twisting (by Bucovsky)

[Provokatoras]

Seal Twisting

Seal Twisting is Retribution Paladin strategy used to benefit from more than just 1 seal at a time. It is based on clever usage of the delay which occurs between an auto-attack hit and an actual damage dealt by Seal of Command (about 0.5 sec). Seal Twisting is fairly easy to reproduce if you understand the theory but it requires good timing and reflex to use in an actual fight.

Some useful terms:

SoC - Seal of Command
SoB - Seal of Blood
SoJ - Seal of Justice
JoC - Judgement of Command (The effect of Judgement after consuming Seal of Command)
Proc - Triggering of an effect

How to use it?
You have to swap between at least 2 seals, but the starting one must be Seal of Command. You can benefit from Seal Twisting only if your SoC procs, white hits which don't proc the effect will just make you waste some of your mana. SoC's effect triggers 0.5 sec after your white hit and you have to be quick enough to use a different seal in that short time period. If you do it correctly SoC's damage will proc the effect of the second seal of your choice.

>Use Seal of Command
>Auto-attack your target
>Melee swing occurs, white damage is dealt, Seal of Command procs (the timer starts, you have 0,5 sec to change seal)
>Use Seal of Blood/Seal of Justice (or Seal macro, explained later in the topic)
>0.5 sec passes, you benefit from both Seals (You just seal twisted!)

How to notice whether my seal will proc or not?

It is quite easy to control your procs and avoid wasting mana/global cooldown. However, the more tense the situation is the harder it becomes to predict SoC's triggering.
When you use SoC and start attacking your enemy with auto-attack you can witness 2 situations:

1. Normal speed attack animation, no special sounds, no special visual effects. (SoC will not trigger)

2. You can see much faster attacking animation, a special sound effect can be heard, a special visual effect appears your target. (SoC will trigger, additional damage will be dealt)

You can basically try your luck and swap your seal immediately after seeing the swing animation or try to predict SoC's proc and make sure you benefit from Seal Twisting. This is how SoC's visual effect looks:

Image

You can additionally use macros to improve the efficiency of your Seal Twisting by consuming the SoC with Judgement right before it is replaced by the second seal, restoring some of the seal's mana cost and adding more damage. Example macros:

#showtooltip Seal of Command(Rank 6)
/equip Libram of Avengement
/use Judgement
/use Seal of Command(Rank 6)


#showtooltip Seal of Blood(Rank 1)
/equip Libram of Avengement
/use Judgement
/use Seal of Blood(Rank 1)


#showtooltip Seal of Justice(Rank 2)
/equip Libram of Avengement
/use Judgement
/use Seal of Justice(Rank 2)

Blood Elves are the most lucky ones when it comes to Seal Twisting because of the Seal of Blood which is available only to them. The combination of SoC + SoB creates an opportunity to do some high burst damage.

Attacks done in this 0.5 sec combo (with using Seal + Judgement macro):

1x White Attack
1x Seal of Command proc
2x Seal of Blood procs
1x Judgement of Command effect

You can use Libram of Divine Judgement which is probably better for paladins who don't have Seal of Blood but I recommend to use Libram of Avengement if you Seal Twist using SoC + SoB combination since it guarantees that you will gain a buff no matter what your current Seal was.

Alliance-only Seal of Vengeance doesn't seem to work with Seal Twisting making Hordes benefit more from this strategy. However, Alliance Paladins can combine SoC with SoJ to get some additional stuns and interrupts.

Attacks done in this 0.5 sec combo (with using Seal + Judgement macro):

1x White Attack
1x Seal of Command proc
1x Seal of Justice stun effect
1x Judgement of Command effect

Important notes

-SoC cannot proc off Crusader strike, while SoB can
-Windfury Totem effect significantly empowers your Seal Twisting
-SoC has a chance to proc (using slow weapons makes your SoC more likely to trigger)
-SoB has 100% chance to deal damage when you attack your enemy with auto-attack or crusader strike, but it consumes some of your HP and deals 2x lower damage than SoC.

[Danwithaplan]

doing all this you still don't do top 10 dps in TBC, rip ret's in TBC man. rerolling hunter Keepo

[Provokatoras]

Speak for yourself :)

[VaradinTheGrey]

Thanks ill be trying this on this server.

[SirSkillalot]

Now sadly you missed a small thing which at the same time is all what seal twisting was about. If you twist a seal shortly before your aa happens and due to soc having a 0.5 sec delay you can have 3 bonus attacks on one attack. First the guaranteed part: White hit + sob from white hit which follows up with soc as a chance and if it proccs another sob procs from soc. This entire thing is enabled by the fact that you cant have 2 seals on one attack but soc having a 0.5 sec delay making it possible with server latency to end up with seals in one attack. Combine this with windfury and you come up with stupid amounts of dps even challenging the top 5 dps spots quite easily if done well.

[Jol3co]

Guys, playing ret pve tbc for quite long time. Still learning. Was looking for tips and guides for 2.4.3 Retribution, I'm glad that TBC is still so popular.
I have two questions. To be honest i never used this mechanic so far, so I still dont really understand how to do it properly. But my 1st question... Is this Seal Twisting really useful in PVE? Take for example 5,6min boss fight like Brutallus. Is it useful here? I mean how you do with the mana. Most of the pro guilds are raiding with 2 paladins this means 2 buffs and no Blessing of Wisdom(even if they are 3 with buffbot you are with kings,salva and might). With end game gear your attack speed will be somewhere 2.7. If you swap seals between every melee swing you probably will be oom after 1,2 mins. Even with 50mana chance on hit t6 bonus is still issue. Even if your holy pala keeps seal of wisdom is still issue. Without twisting... So is this a real thing or is just a myth. Or i cant understand it, maybe can be done without swap 2 times between every white melee attack?
I tried some other trick with the Libram of Divine Judgement using it to gain ap bonus as Blood Elf Ret PVE paladin. But I cant see it working because similar issues like mana and GCD messing your rota ending with less dps than without it(other bad thing on this libram is that its chance on judge... so not sure what % but is not on every for sure).
So maybe these things require experience, time to learn or they are just a myth?
Edit: hmm usually ending oom(around 5700 is our mana) on 4,5min bossfights when im using the almost useless abilities Cons and Exorcism, maybe if i learn this mechanic for seal twist can replace these, they are resisted anyway most of the time and cost ****load of mana and their dmg is shiet too.
Edit2: Whats happening if your white attack not proc Seal of Command? this means that you miss one seal of blood? Am I right or nope? So you rely on Command to proc your seal of blood? But command is RNG and like half of your attacks will be just white auto attack without seal of blood? Or i just cant still understand after all videos and explanation...

-SoC cannot proc off Crusader strike, while SoB can
Source? I mean where u know that in retail Crusader Strike procs Seal of Blood? Im not sure if this is intended

[d3viance]

Seal twisting is not possible because there is no delay on Seal of Command here.

[taralej]

Seal twisting is not possible because there is no delay on Seal of Command here.

lol rekt

/thread

It was a nice try for a copy-paste guide, though, Provokatoras. The only way a Ret could be slightly viable on TBC is to be Blood Elf.

[Selaya]

Seal twisting is not possible because there is no delay on Seal of Command here.

damn shouldve inb4d that :^]

[Elevated]

I thought I noticed this as well, white damage and SoC proc appear at the same time in scrolling combat text.

It truly doesn't work on Warmane right no troll? Guess I'm going Prot/Holy lol

[Feomatar]

yea, and they flag "fixed"...
Ok, **** it, gona go into league agein. This buggy privet servers troll me so hard...

[nekoizmase]

This is like any other retribution paladin guide is complete rubbish, retribution paladin is easiest class to play and hardest to master.It is very powerfull char in a hand of expert. For instance i did 3300dps at supremus 2900 at brutallus 4500 dps overall at hyal mountai. If you want real guide and have real question contact me [email protected]

[wintez]

Seal Twisting

-SoB has 100% chance to deal damage when you attack your enemy with auto-attack or crusader strike, but it consumes some of your HP and deals 2x lower damage than SoC.

i dont understand, SoB must deal damage when use crusader strike like officially wow? or its just аn inflamed fantasy, because on warmane no such thing.
UP.

[Windarrow]

This is like any other retribution paladin guide is complete rubbish, retribution paladin is easiest class to play and hardest to master.It is very powerfull char in a hand of expert. For instance i did 3300dps at supremus 2900 at brutallus 4500 dps overall at hyal mountai. If you want real guide and have real question contact me [email protected]

this seems legit

[deedoo]

This is like any other retribution paladin guide is complete rubbish, retribution paladin is easiest class to play and hardest to master.It is very powerfull char in a hand of expert. For instance i did 3300dps at supremus 2900 at brutallus 4500 dps overall at hyal mountai. If you want real guide and have real question contact me [email protected]

Will you send me free keyloggers and trojans for my time?