Pretty sure devs are well paid here, which is why we have such good quality work being done. The issue most people have is that the devs are working on TBC when they want MoP to be worked on. This has nothing to do with quality of devs, because I am fairly certain we some of the best devs on the pserver scene (and devs overall in the pserver scene aren't as bad as you are making them out to be.
In fact for many of the devs here, based on their location, they are likely earning more working on this project than they would working on a regular job. Based on all this, I think you're pretty misinformed on this topic.
I do believe we don't have enough devs for 4 expansions, but the fact is, we didn't have enough devs for 3, so why did we open a 4th in the first place? It's just unfortunate that staff didn't bother informing us of their decision, nor including us in it. They did what they wanted, which is fine, but then at least admit you haven't changed from the molten days.
Quality Assurance is not the same thing as Questions and Answers.
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Member
Do that instead of me if you`de like...How high/low are chances for all of you on the charge of this server to advertise FW-Mop it in same way you did with 10+ years old expansion WOTLK...Show some people how good is this server mop to play at...I assure you there are lot of people that dont know about the server having Mop and just searching in blank..I`ll be grateful if you at least try Advertise it anyhow but i bet you didn`t do it for some reason YET,,Which is bad and lot of people don`t like it how server decreased the population because of that!!!Once you did that with WOTLK you got x3k players at it..Have a good day!
Edited: May 10, 2017
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Member
I actually wrote something similar few hours ago but since I included old owners name in it, the comment had to be approved before published. Not sure if we'll see it so... I'm actually on the same page - warmane still being like the old molten. Sure, WotLK (!) quality has changed since but it feels like staff hasn't. Where is that ''h... didn't allow us to have open communication with the community, but now with warmane we'll change that''? (not the exact quote) It still feels like there's not enough communication with the people here. Feels like that's the biggest problem with this server. On the side note, I personally have always been careful on what to say on forums because it used to feel like there is no freedom of speech. I'm not sure how things are now, but for the moment I wanna express my feelings towards this server. Not to flame or anything, but to try to share and listen to others opinions here.
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Member
Jesus Christ... We had over 10k ppl playing MoP. Advertisement is not a problem. Countless ppl know about our MoP server, but unfortunately, they know it's state as well... When, or IF they EVER turn their focus to MoP and start fixing it the way they fixed WOTLK, we won't need any advertisement...
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Member
Torcida, I do remember the situation a little different, but I do not have any valid proof. I remember Actually, 3.3.5 being the most popular realm but I can not give you any valid proof. And I might be just wrong about it.
Well, if You look on Warmane as company than we should look at numbers, if they have 12k realm running right now. It is pretty impressive, You are saying that MOP had two realms maxed out, but I do not recall the correct number but I believe that the caps were 2-4k. So all in all - they have gained more people here so that was a good plan in long term.
I do not know how to explain there choice but this is their project and they can simply put anything in their priority list and I actually share Your opinion that most likely the more WoW moves forward the more difficult it gets to work on the expansions as there is simply too many new things, too many new npc, spells, stats interacting with each other and it makes the work much more difficult.
Also at that time MOP just "dropped" so people might just be testing it out and checking what is what, maybe the population was not "stable one" but just people keen to try MOP. A part of problem will always be the bugs, but maybe people just did not like the idea of MOP. I do remember a lot of *****ing on retail also that there will be Pandas and it is the same (you can check Blizz data for this, I do remember watching the feedbacks) before every new expansion the players drop around 1-3 mil. than a lot of them come back for the lunch of new expansion. So it can be that the bubble of popularity was just gonna explode as it consisted of mostly people trying out MOP.
Notorios, the problem is that we do not know what they are paid and how many devs there are in total, it's just a guess (maybe an educated guess on Your behalf as it seems You know your ways around here). The fact that they are opening TBC also does not mean that MOP gets less attention as there is no information for us at all - maybe they have a new dev specially for TBC realm so the panic people are making is just useless.
Also the thing is that as they have stated the tbc core is basically a part from wotlk and they can work on both realms at the same time which makes it easier for them.
I would guess that so or so that each expansion has a different Dev (well, maybe MOP and CATA share one) as it's much more easier for any specialist to get used to one environment and if he writes codes than to be able to check his own mistakes not all three go around all cores. They might help each other and work as a team to try port these fixes from one core to another, but as we all know that does not work so simple as we imagine - just crtl+c; crtl+v the code.
About location of work and payment.. I'm a branch leader of a workforce rental company - today anything that has to deal with IT does not have to deal with location at all. There are a lot of projects done by outsourcing and that does not mean that the people are "poor". Okay, a guy in India might still get less than an USA programmer, but that is still way more than a regular worker would get and believe me, any kind of programmer that can deal with coding and programming in such a level is well respected and demanded. There is huge demand for these kind of workers.
About the communication issue, people do complain whey more than they should everywhere not only here. Basically, You get MAYBE 1 positive feedback and 10 negative feedbacks. Do you ever recall someone posting a positive forum thread about fixes? There have been plenty of good fixes I do remember myself that for example Symbiosis was fixed and it's a HUGE part of druids pvp and it's an important fix, but where there any thank you letters? And this is just a small example, there have been much more important fixes but this just was top of my head.
The feedback from users will always be everything is bad, this sucks. If You open wotlk threads You will see people *****ing about those 5 things that are bugged not thanking for 5000 fixes :)Edited: May 11, 2017
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The problem with your point is, people aren't complaining that much about isolated bugs which make things more awkward, people are complaining about literally progress stopping bugs, that break up guilds and make people leave, like the ones present in SoO and ToT. And even then, if those bugs were talked about, if we had info on what's happening, it would be fine, but all we literally are getting is since and removed threads, bugtrackers marked as fixed, but the bugs are still present and no info on it.
If you've never told your customers what you were doing and even if you were doing it, and when they demanded answers on progress you would just delete their mails and ignore them, I am pretty sure you shouldn't act surprised when the customers choose other company or product.
Yes, people ***** too much about trivial stuff, but most people don't even go to forums, I come here just because we are at our wit's end and our ~60 player guild might just break up, because we are struggling to progress at a reasonable pace and we have no idea what's going on. The same bugs that are the most annoying and progress stopping are there since last summer and we have no word on their status. That's why I am wasting my break times at work posting here - to get at least some info which could help me make decisions beneficial for my guild.
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Member
@ALIYALUSH, maybe you're partially right about MoP being quite new and more ppl wanted to try it out. But never than less, MoP was by far most popular realm back than. And cap wasn't 2k like u stated, it was even 5,5k at some points, so there were more than 10k ppl playing it, and countless in queue... WOTLK reached these number only after Lordareon was officially released, and by the time it did, since MoP was in bad shape for a long time, ti's population lost two thirds.
Like I said. WOTLK was probably easier and safer bet for them, so it's fine they focused on it. And no one can deny they made amazing job. Even the fact WOTLK looks hideous and obsolete didn't make any difference or impact on its popularity. They proved my statement from before, QUALITY BRINGS POPULATION.
That's why I'm truly disappointed with TBC. I have no doubt they will make amazing job there as well... But it's just not fair to MoP players, as we were once the biggest community, and we waited all this time to be in some focus. And on top of that, they stated several times, MoP WOULD BE in their focus after WOTLK was done, and now they come and do this...
I have tons of friends here, and I like community. No1 has it like this, that's why I struggle to leave. But managing 4 expansions is way too much, and even though they didn't abandon MoP development, it's not gonna be in pace we all would like and deserve.
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Moderator
So, I'm curious: what answer did you get in the PM you sent to a QA and/or CM? At least I'm assuming you did send a PM as you were oriented to do if you want certain answers or communication... because otherwise you're just *****ing for *****ing's sake now.
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Member
I did not send a PM because there is an update coming this month and we are waiting to see if it changes anything. We also submitted a couple of bug reports and are waiting to see what happens with those. What's happening right now is called a "discussion". And the communication we are asking for is not something that can be solved by everyone who cares PMing QA. But do not fret, if nothing changes, QA will be contacted. Although it won't help the server as a whole even if they give us the answers we seek since it will only be us, not all the players who will have access to those answers. And that's my point, because server is obviously getting emptier and we don't want that.
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Moderator
Already addressed:
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Member
Well for me personally, all I know is that the community that was built up in Sargeras, joining with Frostwolf to form massive amount of players to log in for said community on a daily basis, about 200+ or so, has been dead for 3 years, to amount only 5-9 players logging in at a time.
To this day, the bug that had been reported more that 8 times has never been fixed, but we still got some hope. A changelog stated it was fixed whereas the same issue still happens.
Several NPCs are also missing from the game, and so forth.
I like MOP, but I hate to see it die off, I guess more communication for both the player and staff or something. Kear Wolf, who logged in game long time ago stated this, as well as the twitch streams that are all suddenly gone now, those who watched it know, but some of us yet to see it happen. That's just me.
I guess we wait and see.
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Member
https://web.archive.org/web/20141221...olten-wow.com/
I will say this, I agree with staff focusing on WotLK first, because the playerbase on those realms was the oldest and had been ignored the longest. They deserved the attention. What I take issue with is staff working on TBC for 6 months while not informing players here. Warmane did not owe a TBC realm to anyone, it owed developer attention to the players that play on Frostwolf that have donated many times in the past. THAT is where I take issue with what happened. It seems TBC is mostly done now, but that is 8 months (in their own words) they have spent on that realm that could have spent on MoP. If such would have happened, we would have definitely had all four tiers of SoO open, and a working ToT as well. Maybe our population wouldn't have declined so severely that all the PvP players would have ditched us for a fun server.
We do know how much devs are paid, they told us so in their recruitment posts. It is a proper job with a very solid pay, and like I said above, the devs deserve it. They do a good job and are very talented in what they do. The issue, again, is that they created a new realm with the resources they had rather than work on a realm they already have and said they would work on next. I also don't understand the logic behind you saying that just because TBC was opened doesn't mean MoP didn't get less attention. Unless they have an unlimited number of develops, by definition any developer working on TBC is not working on MoP. That's just common sense...
They've spent 8 months working on TBC now. It's safe to say it's not a copy paste from WotLK, and has taken quite a bit of man power to have it working. I agree that the TBC core is very easy to work with (it's obviously the same as the WotLK one) but again, they didn't NEED to open this realm at all. That is 8 months spent on CREATING a realm, while ignoring a realm that already existed. If a TBC realm already existed when Warmane was created, I would understand them prioritizing that over MoP. However this is a new project, something that did not exist and was created while ignoring our realm.
They are paid in Euros. Euros are worth the same whether you are in London or Budapest. As such eastern european developers get a much higher buying power and are likely getting paid more working on this project than they would in a local job. Again, I'm not saying they aren't worth the money, because I also play on Icecrown and I am well aware of how talented our developers are.
People have been very vocal about how amazing our wotlk bug fixes have been. Moreso in-game than on forums, but that is besides the point. Complaining about bugs isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it shows our passion for wanting our realms continually improved and shows we care about this server. When same faction Rated BGs got fixed, I created a post saying how grateful I was for that fix. When War Games got fixed, the PvP players made quite a few posts about it as well. However, our PvE community really is in tatters. Galakras is literally unkillable unless you overgear him by a mile. LFR is supposedly ready for launch but doesn't get launched so players have something to work with (I don't even understand why its not launched...)
Its clear based on the bugtracker that attention is NOW being diverted to MoP. I don't know if the recent outcry from the community played any part in it, even if it did staff would deny it, but in any case, I am happy for it.
I'm glad this thread hasn't been closed and you have done a good job in discussing with us. I want to point out I have sent many PMs to CM and QA many times regarding our almost dead arena community. I have gotten no replies. I won't take any names, but I will inform you of 2 suggestions I made and I hope you can pass them along to the CM as perhaps you will get a response at least.
1) We need conquest catch-up to be introduced. For the umpteenth time, Blizzard themselves said this is the largest gap that has ever existed between Honor and Conquest gear. The sheer difference in the stats is insurmountable and this is not a custom feature I am asking for. Blizzard created conquest catch-up for a reason and its ridiculous that we refuse to fix it here because of unknown reasons.
2) We need some sort of 3v3 tournament for this realm (and for other realms too, but specially for this one). The reason being this is the one expansion where 3v3 is the most active due to not needing teams. We have bled all of our arena players, and have lost newly acquired retail gladiators to other servers because we have a lower population and we are missing conquest catch-up.
I'm hoping with PvE fixes our population will increase addressing the first issue, but we also need to address the second issue which is the large gap in the gear.
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Member
Well duh people stay here longer when 2k rating gives 1800 cap and 4 orbs kotmogu takes 8 mins to win
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Moderator
I can't comment on why you wouldn't receive replies, since I'm not responsible for either team, the most I can do is forward the complain to the Administrator responsible for the Moderators so it can be checked.
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Staff
We have talked about the conquest cap mechanic but no work on it has been done yet. We are gathering details on it and the work for it to be implemented will start right away. We need to consider how it also works for our permanent-MoP realm as it might not be a good thing to implement.
Frostwolf is not decreasing in population as many here on this sub-forum like to yell about, it's rising in population in comparison to past 2 months.
In terms of new content coming, two BGs and SoO LFR/HC is coming for MoP very soon. It's currently going through internal testing.
To also add, Legendary Cloak quest-line coming soon as well.
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