Server

[MeneerPrins]

We have talked about the conquest cap mechanic but no work on it has been done yet. We are gathering details on it and the work for it to be implemented will start right away. We need to consider how it also works for our permanent-MoP realm as it might not be a good thing to implement.

Frostwolf is not decreasing in population as many here on this sub-forum like to yell about, it's rising in population in comparison to past 2 months.

In terms of new content coming, two BGs and SoO LFR/HC is coming for MoP very soon. It's currently going through internal testing.

To also add, Legendary Cloak quest-line coming soon as well.

Can you also give us an update regarding pathfinding?

[Proterean]

Can you also give us an update regarding pathfinding?

It currently crashes the realm. After we fix the crash, it'll go live.

[pagirinis]

Sweet, someone who can gives us an answer or two.

What about SoO normal and ToT fixes? We've been waiting for around a year for an update on those and have no idea if fixing durumu's instant pushbacks (which worked fine before the ToT HC was released) is happening or not? What about Galakras increased HP of bonecrushers and Flames of Galakrond oneshotting people? What about Iron Juggernaut and 8-10 puddles of explosive tar instead of supposed 3? What about Malkorok and Breath of Y'shaarj happening at the same time as Imploding Energy puddles and even before that, trash mobs crashing the game if you try to kill them on the right, when going to Malkorok?

These are the questions I would love to know at least partial answer to, because these are the main progress stopping bugs that plague us forever.

Thanks in advance, I love that this thread is not getting deleted and garnering attention.

[Treba]

We have talked about the conquest cap mechanic but no work on it has been done yet. We are gathering details on it and the work for it to be implemented will start right away. We need to consider how it also works for our permanent-MoP realm as it might not be a good thing to implement.

Woah- just the fact that you are seriously looking at this is very good news- I'm sure the players will really appreciate it. I don't personally think it has to be a 100% or nothing solution. You could implement a maximum conquest catchup of say, 13,000 conquest and see how it works out. That would still leave incentive to donate and help the server while encouraging new players.

What I do think is essential to realize is that the Neltharion example shows that Warmane absolutely, positively needs a way to make it less painful for new players to gear up. As it stands now, you really, really have to want to play MoP pvp to get through that absolutely miserable gearing process. Sure, a good number of people do so, but not nearly as many as would do so if it were less painful.

All you have to do is look at what happened on Neltharion to see how a server will slowly die if it's too painful for new players to get through the process of gearing among fully geared pvp players. That model doesn't work and should not be followed to the bitter end on Frostwolf.

But again, it's a very good sign you are listening to the players on this - thanks.

[-Notorious-]

I can't comment on why you wouldn't receive replies, since I'm not responsible for either team, the most I can do is forward the complain to the Administrator responsible for the Moderators so it can be checked.

Thank you for getting involved in the discussion on this thread. This is exactly what the community has wanted for a long time I feel, and all it took was one forum moderator to take the time. I don't know about the others, but at least I appreciate it :)

We have talked about the conquest cap mechanic but no work on it has been done yet. We are gathering details on it and the work for it to be implemented will start right away. We need to consider how it also works for our permanent-MoP realm as it might not be a good thing to implement.

This is truly excellent news. I have a few ideas on how Conquest Catch-Up could be implemented on our realm in such a way that it works as blizz-like as possible.

1) We can do the retail method of 1k for every week beginning at the start of the current season. For example, the current season started 6 weeks ago. If someone has less than 6,000 Conquest points earned thus far in the season, their current Conquest Cap would be (CP Earned) - 6000. Since our arena seasons last for 15k, this would mean that somebody joining at the very end of the season would have a conquest cap of 15k for the one week. Anyone joining on the first week of the season would get nothing however. The positive of this method is, no-one will miss out on the requirement for the weapon (7,250 CP earned).

2) We can stop resetting conquest points at the end of every season similar to WotLK, and only reset the rating. If we do this, then we can just add a flat 15k cap to anyone that has less than 15k CP earned (CP earned should not reset at the end of season either). This way players joining at any point will get the 15k CP cap, and it will only be a one off thing for new characters. Once players have over 15k Conquest Earned, they will never get an additional catch-up added.

3) We can continue with the current season and add 15k to the cap at the beginning of every season. I feel this method is too liberal however and gives far too much cap to players. This can be both a good thing and a bad thing (good because it encourages a lot of PvP activity, bad because it is far too un-blizz-like)

I personally find 2 to be the best way to go about it. I don't understand why we reset the conquest points at the end of every season anyways, as it serves no purpose now. Furthermore, this would not screw over any players joining at the start of the season like method 1 does.

Hope my suggestions come in handy, but really any method of Conquest catch-up will be greatly appreciated by the PvP community.

The fixes to PvE will also be very welcome, as I feel Warmane should target the PvE community as our niche, since other MoP servers have cornered other aspects of MoP. I'm not saying our aim should be to not focus on PvP or questing or old raids, but I think getting a top notch SoO and ToT are what will actually make the population come back (and PvP players always go where the population is, so I'm sure they will return as well). Also, it would be amazing if we could get a 3v3 tournament at the end of every season like the old days. No other server (to my knowledge) hosts 3v3 tournaments, and I think we can set ourselves apart by hosting them.

[zhallus]

Finally someone other than a mod speaks! Hence the message in the usual Northend spot :)

#FixTheBugsTy:) - The Artist (Hakmud)

[Obnoxious]

Thank you for getting involved in the discussion on this thread. This is exactly what the community has wanted for a long time I feel, and all it took was one forum moderator to take the time. I don't know about the others, but at least I appreciate it :)

Actually, Proterean came post on his own (or someone pointed out the discussion to him), Palutena only got online and saw my message a while afterwards. Still, glad if my involvement indirectly prompted for you guys to get some answers you were looking for and get less gloomy about the situation of this expansion.

[Treba]

I agree with all of Notorious' post except this part:

The fixes to PvE will also be very welcome, as I feel Warmane should target the PvE community as our niche, since other MoP servers have cornered other aspects of MoP.

There's no other MoP server I'm aware of as good for BGs and 2s arena as Warmane. And I'm pretty sure I've tried them all. Yes, there is another server with a better 3v3 scene, but that's mainly because of the gearing situation here and should be addressed by the conquest cap fix. Frostwolf's strength is the scripting of class abilities- it's way better than on the server with the active 3v3 scene. Just fix the gearing situation and no other server will compare for all aspects of pvp.

[nabbler]

treba, your request was already stated and addressed in this thread
why you still pushing and tacking it on the end of backhanded compliment?

we get it, your too lazy to gear your alts like everyone else here does.

[-Notorious-]

Actually, Proterean came post on his own (or someone pointed out the discussion to him), Palutena only got online and saw my message a while afterwards. Still, glad if my involvement indirectly prompted for you guys to get some answers you were looking for and get less gloomy about the situation of this expansion.

Still thank you for joining and discussing. I think its a very welcome change and just what was needed.

There's no other MoP server I'm aware of as good for BGs and 2s arena as Warmane. And I'm pretty sure I've tried them all. Yes, there is another server with a better 3v3 scene, but that's mainly because of the gearing situation here and should be addressed by the conquest cap fix. Frostwolf's strength is the scripting of class abilities- it's way better than on the server with the active 3v3 scene. Just fix the gearing situation and no other server will compare for all aspects of pvp.

Anyone taking BGs or 2v2s as a standard to judge PvP can't be taken seriously, I'm sorry.

3v3 is the only format that matters. Classes are far better here, on that we can definitely agree. Our QA has done a VERY good job on class abilities (some things still need to be looked at, but work has been done very well, for sure). I don't think JUST Conquest Catch-up will make us competitive, I think we need a bigger population, but our focus on PvE should handle that imo. I've noticed a lot of work being done on bugtracker so I'm optimistic right now.

treba, your request was already stated and addressed in this thread
why you still pushing and tacking it on the end of backhanded compliment?

we get it, your too lazy to gear your alts like everyone else here does.

We don't need conquest catch-up for alts. I could care less about people gearing alts. I care about the new population that come, many of whom are retail gladiators, but they are astonished at how one of the key components of MoP (something around which Blizzard balanced the gear itself) doesn't work. They then leave because there's no point in players of such skill wasting time being farmed by players that are being carried merely by gear.

[Treba]

Anyone taking BGs or 2v2s as a standard to judge PvP can't be taken seriously, I'm sorry.
3v3 is the only format that matters.

You're entitled to your opinion. Here's mine:

Every form of WoW gameplay is just silly entertainment. There's absolutely zero societal value to any of it. Being good at any form of it won't advance your "real world" life to any degree.

That being the case, my opinion is that the most important form of pvp is that which entertains the most people. And that, without question, is BGs and 2s. From the perspective of a business like Warmane, I expect the most important form of pvp is that which attracts the most donating customers. And that, once again, is BGs and 2s.

Now, I agree that 3v3 arena is the most skillful form of WoW pvp. But for me, what the most skillform form of gameplay is on a very small server featuring an outdated expansion of a game (pvp anyway) that is dying on retail is kind of like arguing about what the most skillful format of competitive basket weaving is. Your mileage may vary.

[-Notorious-]

You're entitled to your opinion. Here's mine:

Every form of WoW gameplay is just silly entertainment. There's absolutely zero societal value to any of it. Being good at any form of it won't advance your "real world" life to any degree.

That being the case, my opinion is that the most important form of pvp is that which entertains the most people. And that, without question, is BGs and 2s. From the perspective of a business like Warmane, I expect the most important form of pvp is that which attracts the most donating customers. And that, once again, is BGs and 2s.

Now, I agree that 3v3 arena is the most skillful form of WoW pvp. But for me, what the most skillform form of gameplay is on a very small server featuring an outdated expansion of a game (pvp anyway) that is dying on retail is kind of like arguing about what the most skillful format of competitive basket weaving is. Your mileage may vary.

I'm not interested in derailing the thread any further. I'm sure most players enjoy 2v2, but that's not what we should use to judge the health of the PvP community. Just my opinion, you are welcome to yours. I hope we can get conquest catch-up fixed as it benefits everyone.

[Kite009]

We have talked about the conquest cap mechanic but no work on it has been done yet. We are gathering details on it and the work for it to be implemented will start right away. We need to consider how it also works for our permanent-MoP realm as it might not be a good thing to implement.

This is great news. Thank you.

I'm curious as to whether there's any discussion to provide more incentives for playing 3s.

[Proterean]

My work usually does not involve the forums but I do visit daily. I came here on my own, for those wondering. The discussion started with your PM -Notorious- but there's a few problems we might encounter. This mechanic as a thing is used for catching up and it's a seasonal mechanic. It does not work per patch so not everyone should/will get the increased cap.

The formula itself works like this (x*1000)-Y where the X is the weeks of the season (Warmane Arena season) and Y being the conquest already earned in the season. This is how the mechanic itself works. It's based on seasons, not patch.

But looking at this, it only makes us think that it will benefit the lazy or the ones that are not playing at all and itself it does not promote active gameplay but rather a safe net for those who can't or don't want to play.

What we also discussed is the possibility of adding another conquest reset in the week, making it twice a week, which should promote active gameplay more so than a catch up, but of course this would be very far away from the blizzlike path.

Also, it comes to our mind that the gearing is already fairly easy in MoP and we can't help but wonder if by even thinking to do this, we are making the game too easy.

As for other things, SoO is being looked at. ToT is not a major priority right now. We are finalizing LFR and HC and then we will do a review of the raid in it's entirety and fix up the remaining issues and then we can look at ToT.

Also, our reverse engineer is working on the pathfinding and mmaps to make it, well, not crash. Other than that, on the to-do list we have the dynamic difficulty switching for some of the older raids, particularly ICC, DS and such.

After that, it's the flexible raids that we'll be pushing out and we're actually quite close to completion on that. Just a few formulas and we're done.

Legendary cloak quest line will be released in parts, as soon as we finish one, we'll push it out. The item itself will not be available on the marketplace until the quest chain is finished and even then it'll have some demanding requirements.

There has been no discussion in 3s incentives. The only thing that comes to my mind is to have the CMs organzining a 3v3 tournament with some vanity rewards and stream it on YouTube.

We are doing some major things for PvP, implementing leeway and so on and on. We have a great development team and I'd say that the progress in the last year in terms of classes is amazing to say the least.


Also to add, please do not be convinced by people who are randomly saying that we do not work on Mists of Pandaria, we have dedicated developers for this expansion and we're pushing as much as we can.

For those who are saying that the TBC is taking the big focus, please keep in mind that this was an internal project done by only a fraction of the development team and the reason why we could do so much is because we based it off an amazingly well-done core from Lordaeron/Icecrown. A lot of the fixes are simple ports or changes from the core.

For specific bugs, especially class ones, go to the BugTracker.


And Alterac Valley and Isle of Conquest are under-going internal testing. We are preparing them for a soon release. There's a few details we need to absolutely get right and finding information on them isn't hard. IoC is sooner than AV by the looks of it now.

If anyone is interested in anything else, we can answer. In reality, I'd love to do streams and just answer questions all the time. It does not present an issue to me but usually these end up in repetitive questions and no further progress than that.

[-Notorious-]

My work usually does not involve the forums but I do visit daily. I came here on my own, for those wondering. The discussion started with your PM -Notorious- but there's a few problems we might encounter. This mechanic as a thing is used for catching up and it's a seasonal mechanic. It does not work per patch so not everyone should/will get the increased cap.

The formula itself works like this (x*1000)-Y where the X is the weeks of the season (Warmane Arena season) and Y being the conquest already earned in the season. This is how the mechanic itself works. It's based on seasons, not patch.

But looking at this, it only makes us think that it will benefit the lazy or the ones that are not playing at all and itself it does not promote active gameplay but rather a safe net for those who can't or don't want to play.

What we also discussed is the possibility of adding another conquest reset in the week, making it twice a week, which should promote active gameplay more so than a catch up, but of course this would be very far away from the blizzlike path.

Also, it comes to our mind that the gearing is already fairly easy in MoP and we can't help but wonder if by even thinking to do this, we are making the game too easy.

Thanks for such deep insights, its great to have this communication (I do miss the streams, but I think I now understand why you guys found them repetitive).

I think a second reset every week would be amazing as that is what our competitors are doing right now, but I agree that it wouldn't feel too blizz-like. I want to point out that I disagree that a conquest catch-up is for the lazy.

Every week, the minimum cap is 2.2k. If somebody missed this cap, they would only gain 1k back, which meant those capping weekly would be at an advantage (something I think we should stick to). I also don't agree that it would reward those that are lazy per say. By increasing the cap, we are not awarding conquest points for not playing. These players still have to queue up and do arenas. It will only promote more arena activity if players have a bigger cap on their alts, something I think we can all agree is beneficial for the server.

The reason all three of my proposals I posted above have a hard cap of 15k is because our seasons are roughly 15 weeks on. I personally don't feel we need to reset conquest points at the end of every season, as we do not reset arena points on WotLK for the same reason; there is no new gear coming. As such I feel we should have the conquest points season earned total never reset and accumulate for the remainder of this realm's life. If we do that, we can just make the CP formula as follow:

Current Conquest Cap + max[ (15,000- Total CP Earned) , 0)].

If players have got 0 CP earned this season (brand new character) their cap will be: 2,200 + 15,000 = 17,200.

If they have earned 6,600 (3 weeks) their cap will be: 2,200 + (15,000-6,600) = 10,600

If they have earned 16,000 CP their cap will be: 2,200 (or whatever the cap is for their current rating)

This way we can give brand new players a chance to catch up, while old players who have already gotten quite a bit of gear will not gain any further advantage.

I hope you guys can consider this option.