Yeah, I'm actually thinking about replacing one rdudu with a holy priest on my 7 ele shami, 3 rdudu team. For PvP purpose though.
Problem is that rdudu doesn't have wild growth in TBC and I'm not sure if spamming single target hots gonna work out to outheal AoE dmg
CoH on the other hand looks like a very powerful AoE heal. Especially in PvP since its instant and therefore doesn't suffer from push backs and interrupts like chain heal does.
Not sure though if holy priests are too squishy for PvP. They don't have focused will but get blessed resilience in return so the survivability might be not that bad compared to disc.
Do u know where i can find the spellpower coefficient of TBC spells?
I assume CoH doesn't scales very well with SP since its instant.
I considered to use holy nova but it only heals the own party while CoH can also heal other partys.
Also CoH is more mana efficient and heals more.
I searched a bit for informations about PvP holy priest in TBC but found pretty much nothing. Seems like everybody played disc.
Disc has improved mass dispell, mana burn and pain suppresion while holy priest has better heals and equally strong shields.
So technically a holy priest should be better than a disc as a back line healer in BGs.
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Banned
Edited: September 4, 2017
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Member
Shadowed raid frames still working? Downloaded it but doesn't seem to do anything.
Also looking for an addon that can keep track of PoM and renew, any suggestions?Edited: September 4, 2017
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Field Medic Moderator
It's pretty strong, but I don't know what the coefficient is.
Of course, but remember it's a damage AoE too.
More or less, yes. Disc was the "pvp spec" because it can both heal and do damage, plus has defensive talents where Holy has about none.
Holy will be stronger if they aren't being threatened, however a Discipline is better at dealing with someone attacking them, which is why they were the preference. Don't forget about Focused Will and Pain Suppression.
You have to set it up IIRC, before it does anything.
Grid, but you'll have to set that one up too.
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Member
Do you reckon it's worth it going for alchemy for the healing trinket from SSO, or are there better trinket setups? I didn't see this trinket mentioned in the list hence the question.
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Member
Disc is really strong for Hydross imo. Your Pain Supression cooldown lines up perfectly with every other transition. As you all should know, it's a very threat sensitive phase so a big fat damage reduction cooldown will help the healers our so the do not have to pull healing threat.
On top of that, the disc talent Reflective Shield gives threat to the target who is shielded. IF you can precast a shield on the tank picking hydross up you net him about 2k more max HP, and the tank will gain an instant 1.5k-ish threat as Hydross breaks it. Hence, it SLIGHTLY extends the time when it's risky to heal due to the threat sensitive transition. Prayer of Mending should be able to used in a similar fashion, but it is not. The way PoM and threat is supposed to work is:
You throw PoM on a character -> That character takes damage -> Damage kicks in -> PoM triggers and heals it instantly -> the character who was healed by PoM now gets threat (50% of the healing done divided equally amongst all engaged enemies).
The issue is that PoM gives the PRIEST threat and not the target of the PoM (at least for the initial target).Edited: September 12, 2017
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Field Medic Moderator
That trinket is VERY powerful and is considered BIS. There is a point where you should drop Tailoring (when you out-gear the Primal Mooncloth set) and get Alchemy just for this trinket. However, I won't be including it in the guide until that content is available. If I put it in the guide now and marked it as BIS, then it could confuse people since you cannot obtain it yet.
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Member
Could you briefly explain why you put some T4 items before T5 in the T5 BIS list? For example the gloves and shoulders. I'd say the T5 gloves and the ones you listed are pretty close idd but aren't the T5 shoulders noticeably better than T4 ones? They have atleast 22 more + healing and only -2 spirit (depending on gems ofc). Adding the T5 4set bonus to this I'd say T5 would be the better option even though the bonus is pretty insignificant?
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Field Medic Moderator
The T4 shoulders have both +2 Spirit and +4 Intellect over the T5 shoulders. These stats usually carry more weight than +healing and +stamina. If your regen is fine and you're looking for more raw +healing, then the T5 shoulders are definitely better. If equipping the shoulders also grants you the 2p bonus, and you're healing a lot with Greater Heal, then the bonus can trump the regen gain that the T4 shoulders has over the T5. With that said, I would quote the note on the post above those item lists.
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Member
Do you have any math for why you list the dark moon card trinket so highly? http://tbc.cavernoftime.com/item=19288
I was playing around with it and don't really see how it beats out a lot of the other trinkets as listed.
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Field Medic Moderator
Because its proc allows you to regen mana at 100% capacity. The strength of that proc only increases as you get better gear. 2% chance may not seem like much, but you're getting a lot of heals off if you're participating in an encounter where you have to actively heal most of the time.
Such a trinket cannot have any math provided for it because how powerful it is relies on your regen amount, and how often it procs depends on how often you cast and which spells you cast.
If you don't need regen or prefer other regen trinkets, don't use it. The trinket list provided is structured in the way it is to display how powerful it is for its ilvl. There isn't a strict bis for trinkets because a healer's needs depend on encounter, gear, gameplay and preferences. It is by no means a must-have, and shouldn't be treated as such purely because it is an S-tier trinket. If you know enough about the class and stats, you should be able to figure out which trinkets will work best for you.
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Member
I'm going to post my napkin math on two trinkets that I'm currently comparing, so that maybe someone can double check for anything I'm missing:
Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon - 2% chance on successful spellcast to allow 100% of your mana regeneration to continue while casting for 15 sec.
assume 20 casts per minute = 15/300 = 5% up time or 1 proc per 5 minutes
increase mana regen (my own stats) 272 for 15 seconds so 3 ticks for a total of 816 mana
And further assume that you spend on average 20% of your time regening at full anyway due to down time in the fight and IF and HC procs
This bring average mana regen per 5 minutes to around 600
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Earring of Soulful Meditation - Equip +66 healing, Use: increase spirit by +300 for 20 seconds (2 min cooldown)
My personal stats:
Regen: not casting 499 | casting 227
While earring is used: not casting 824 | casting 341
Earring net increase regen (assuming meditation and 3pc PMC) : not casting 325 | casting 114
20 seconds = 4 ticks of mana: not casting 1300 | casting 456
Since this is an on use, this can be timed to use during down time during a fight or if using on c/d assume the same 20% time regening at full or 3 out of the 4 ticks spent "casting" or 667 mana gained every 2 minutes or 2000 mana over the course of a 5 minute fight.
In addition to the mana regen you get +30 healing (if you have the Imp Spirit buff) for the 17% uptime or +5 effectively which is 66+5=71 + healing effectively
Also these will be increased in both regen and +healing when you have kings
What I haven't tested - What counts as a successful spell cast? Will each person hit with COH count as its own cast? If so the mana regen for the darkmoon cards increases and I would have to redo the math.Edited: October 11, 2017
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Field Medic Moderator
Each person hit with CoH, PoH, PoM and Binding Heal count as possible procs. It also procs on instants and casts that aren't heals (buffs for example). Working as intended? I don't know, but that is how it is working at the moment.
@Proc strength, keep in mind situations such as using your spirit trinket during a proc. I use a spirit-on-use trinket in addition to my own Darkmoon Card.
@Spirit on use & Kings, I'd also like to point out 2 things here. First, you also get +5% Spirit from Spirit of Redemption. Second, the mp5 value of Spirit isn't static. It scales with intellect (max mana, technically), so values may vary a (small) bit.
Lastly, the Human racial is an important element to both points. Don't forget that human error is also a detriment to use effects while procs suffer less from it. Just things to consider if the trinket is worth getting/using.
With raid buffs, I am north of 860mp5, approaching 900. I don't recall the exact number. I am also benefitting from the Primal Mooncloth set bonus.
Right now my mp5 is scaling I5SR = mp5 / 2.4
Which puts me at 358mp5+ I5SR (this is the minimum value based on what I recall). That means I gain just over 500mp5 during the trinket proc, which puts it at 1500 mana over the course of the trinket's proc.
With that said, you can see how much the power of the trinket increases as you get better gear. It may not be the absolute best regen for me right now, but that will change.
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Member
It's nice to bounce numbers off others. Healing gear is more about what works with your play style more than it is about BIS lists. The pieces I end up wanting is usually slightly different than most people's BIS list. I'll have to play with the dark moon cards some more. As we out gear the PMC set bonus it becomes stronger. Would you say it procs on average 3 times in a 5 min fight?
Also do you know your own % time spent I5SR?
Since the trinket is based largely on RNG you could potentially get 0 gain from the proc of your clear casting lines up with the trinket or if there is no one to heal. I've been trying to look through online logs to get priest time spent I5SR during specific fights but I'm not used to looking at them (the legacy log site) in this format and I'm not sure if it shows the data that I need. I know some fights I'm casting non stop and other fights I have a lot of down time.
Also another thing to note is: as our gear gets better so does the rest of the raid. Tanks take less damage and dps do more damage, which makes the fights shorter. Which makes mana less of an issue. So we may lean more on regen gear during progression and then switch to different stats during farm periods. I know that I spend my mana more efficiently during progress vs farm since people tend to get better at not taking damage the more they do the fight.
Thanks for your thoughts!
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Member
Thanks so much for this guide!!
Could you tell more about drums? When to use drums in a raid fight?
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Field Medic Moderator
You're welcome! Drums you want to use when your party will get the full benefit from it. You want to track the mana pools of the other healers in your group. I would say try to aim to use them whenever all of the healers in your group are in the 40-60% mana range, or below.
I agree, play-style and encounters/situations.
My time spent I5SR really depends on the situation and the encounter. Personally, I don't like to stop casting. Even if there is very little to heal, I will still be putting out r1 Greater Heals on the tank. Or even just Renew people. But in the cases where I actually stop casting and do something else like wand the boss, that will be about the only time I am not I5SR.
I agree, regen trinkets are less useful when you are farming. I openly encourage players to experiment with various gear, talents, consumables, etc. and try out some quirky 'fun' builds of their own. Especially during farm. See what works out for you and go for it. I'd like to remind that this guide should not be taken as gospel, but instead as a tool. A stepping stone of sorts, to inform and empower my fellow players to expand their gameplay in ways they wouldn't have without the knowledge.
I also appreciate your input and inquiries too!
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