Challenging hardcore raid content.

[Cardigan1]

I am assume that by "Challenging hardcore raid content", you guys are referring to bosses being in their pre-nerf state? I assume that you are not going to be buffing bosses like you did with Lordaeron?

Could you please clarify?

I think bosses being in their pre-nerf state (apart from the ones that were unkillable), would probably mean guilds spending weeks on bosses like Al'ar without it affecting the blizzlike quality of the realm.

[brundle28]

I would also like to know answer, also will there be any chance of you guys adding dual spec to this realm if it ever goes into outland?

[Hurzfug]

Any boss that people managed to kill in retail would be relatively easy for high-end private server guilds of today. Many players have more experience than the total number of hours WoW had been up at the beginning of TBC, we have perfect foreknowledge about optimal tactics and raid compositions, more advanced theorycrafting knowledge, 2.4.3 classes are on average slightly more powerful than 2.0.3 ones and some guilds might even be more hardcore than old world first guilds in terms of schedule or how the guild is run (such as being able to completely disregard offering raiders a carrot during progression and loot council making mathematically best decisions instead). High-end private server guilds hold every single advantage.

That being said, well-implemented pre-nerf TBC T4/T5 content wouldn't be a pushover as opposed to, say, how vanilla raids get cleared on private servers (within an hour or two after anyone sets their foot inside). But if there were guilds actually serious about the whole thing, you're not going to see guilds "spending weeks on bosses like Al'ar". There's still room to go a step further while remaining "Blizzlike" and implement unkilled (such as Morogrim) or exploited (allegedly Vashj) versions of encounters - there's a lot of inference (but little concrete evidence) to be made about some of the content having been substantially more difficult before any documented changes, but at that point you're largely guessing for values and even mechanics (Morogrim apparently had Waterwalking Elemental adds in addition to murlocs, but show me a video of how they work) because any pre-2.1 video footage or logs is rare, never mind anything of high quality.

With such a surprise announcement, I'd be quite impressed if the server had consistently implemented 2.0.3 mechanics (Mind control on Vashj, Al'ar with numerous changes like phoenixes dying not causing him to lose health, rape patrols on Old Hillsbrad, double Sentinel pull in Arcatratz, Tempest-Forge Peacekeepers in Botanica doing arcane melee damage...), never mind consistently plausible pre-2.1 values. I don't know if even Outland has "correct" values on anything (even though, in principle, the most nerfed 2.4.3 values would be accessible by recording them from retail if you figure out all the modifiers they've gone through since, starting with -30% everything from 3.0.3). Spell data can be gained from WDB and post-nerf health is datamined, but melee damage on mobs would take quite intensive research.

[Zelda1220]

Honestly, if it is 250% buffed like it is in Lordaeron, you have to be a masochist to play there.

Playing a content that is nearly 10 years old with bosses double/triple of their HP and damage?

Considering how they failed hard on Lordaeron, I would double ****ing dare they would make the same mistake, but you never ****ing know.

[descendance]

Did they mention anything about pre-nerf/challenging heroics, or will they be same as on outland. If they are going with the pre nerf values, they could always start with corecraft values and mix and match later on. You can find corecraft values here

[poopdeck50]

I think they should have a developer give us a detailed description of what is meant by 'hardcore content' and also tell us how it is different from outland. Especially since its 1x rate, we need some transparency before we feel comfortable making a decision on whether to play there or not.

[Hurzfug]

Did they mention anything about pre-nerf/challenging heroics, or will they be same as on outland. If they are going with the pre nerf values, they could always start with corecraft values and mix and match later on. You can find corecraft values here

Looking at the author comments, raids can be presumed to be custom tuned to an unknown extent unless otherwise specified (although who on earth knows about unkilled versions of bosses that CC was going for) while 5-man values can be assumed to be "correct".

Then again, from what I've heard the tuning tends to be tough but doable (and probably gives a more consistent difficulty curve than unkilled boss on one hand and then something like unchanged Void Reaver on another) so it probably wouldn't be a bad move.

[Marcus21]

Honestly, if it is 250% buffed like it is in Lordaeron, you have to be a masochist to play there.

Playing a content that is nearly 10 years old with bosses double/triple of their HP and damage?

Considering how they failed hard on Lordaeron, I would double ****ing dare they would make the same mistake, but you never ****ing know.

what's so wrong with Lordaeron? I fail to see.

[NiceGuyLarry]

I sure would like harder end-game content, nerfed content doesn't give any feel of accomplishment. x1 rates will keep a lot of people away, including me as It's just too big time sink and I only got 4 - 8h per day to play.

[Marcus21]

you got 4-8h...and that is not enough? my god:))

[Mivuris]

IMO when the server progresses and disabling attunement requirement of raids and the launch of Zul Aman are considered nerf / people will be farming Karazhan, Zul Aman 3rd timer and heroics will be getting significant amount of badges of justice, they will buy T5.5 stuff from the vendor implemeted with ZA and later with the island of QD will be rushing Black Temple because of the no attenument requirement

So to keep the hardcore/pre nerf/challenge it is essential to keep the raid attunements and find to add requirements to the vendors, this point is very sensitive and needs a deep reflexion

[Nadoe]

To be fair iv never raided on Lord server with the super buffed raids, but the whole idea is a bit of a turnoff. I imagine you end up seeing a lot of people dodging older tiers simply because the effort does not = the quality of gear in value. In content that has been visible and played on and off for 10 or so years, the theorycrafting and everything that goes on leads me to beleave that short of ridiculous one shot mechanics the organised raiders on these realms will smash through it anyway leaving a wake of frustrated pugs/people who play unpopular hours in their wake.

tldr - Harder "buffed" raids kill previous tiers and create gaps that create issues for potential new players.

[MICHAELITIS]

IMO when the server progresses and disabling attunement requirement of raids and the launch of Zul Aman are considered nerf / people will be farming Karazhan, Zul Aman 3rd timer and heroics will be getting significant amount of badges of justice, they will buy T5.5 stuff from the vendor implemeted with ZA and later with the island of QD will be rushing Black Temple because of the no attenument requirement

So to keep the hardcore/pre nerf/challenge it is essential to keep the raid attunements and find to add requirements to the vendors, this point is very sensitive and needs a deep reflexion

I thought this is going to be a blizzlike server and it would start on 2.1?
Missing attunements? Pls no.
Easy Heroics? pls no:D

Saw a video on YT.Some ppl clearing Kara on Outland. Pls no:;D

[Talice]

I thought this is going to be a blizzlike server and it would start on 2.1?
Missing attunements? Pls no.
Easy Heroics? pls no:D

Saw a video on YT.Some ppl clearing Kara on Outland. Pls no:;D

I guess you just got him wrong. As far as I understand him, he means when the server progresses further. At start, all attunments will be there. By time they will erase the attunments - prolly with the release of ZA - still, I dont get the point of Mivuris either.... Dunno what hes trying to say, maybe to keept up attunments even later on.. but this will be unnessesary in my opinion

[NiceGuyLarry]

you got 4-8h...and that is not enough? my god:))

well lets put it this way - spending my spare time on leveling with x1 rates for few weeks on something that might fail horribly, isn't worth investing time into.