Arthas, the scourge and deathknights were cool. Pandas, monks and the Japanese themed expansion completely ruined WoW for me.
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Member
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Member
(Spoiler: This is my opinion!)Most of the people who play WOTLK (or any other Xpac really) are average (obviously) or below-average level players (including me), but they get to choose Pally or DK or Warrior, get a Shadowmourne and play on a higher level (through sheer Gear advantage) than a player of their skill should. (Of course there are cases where comparably lower geared but MUCH higher skilled players beat Shadowmourne noobs but that is a case of a HUGE skill gap, whereas in most cases skillgaps are comparably smaller and this small gap is overshadowed by the Huge gear disbalance because of shadowmourne) thats why a lot of average and below average skilled players opt for Icecrown+Donations rather than MOP+Donations, because donations on Pandaria won't give you that big of a Difference against non-donating players.
The Warmane putting more work (and fixes) into WOTLK is not the reason, its consequence. Because they knew that WOTLK would be more popular (and yield more profits) they have contributed more work into this expansion, if expected number of players was higher for MOP than WOTLK they would try to fix MOP more. (It's called project forecasting...) And yes NOW it is a contributing factor, but at first it was not, hypothetically WOTLK would have more players than MOP with the same amount of Fixes.
As of my opinion about the expansions, I am a huge fan of WOW and i enjoy TBC WOTLK CATA MOP all (more-or-less) equally, I play wotlk now because 4-5 months ago i used to play MOP (for 4-5 months) and before i played CATA so i grew a bit bored of those to so i decided to switch to WOTLK. The expansions are really different, for example i love the Quality-of-life interface changes in MOP, i mean if both teams are ready to start the arena battles, why do i have to wait for 1 minute anyway ? I also loved MOP talents, yes it had less specialization and less choice in general , but i loved that you could swap 1 talent for another on the go before the duel, because this talent was less better in general, but would be better for this particular duel or arena match. Same for glyphs. Class balance was probably better on MOP too. There were more BGs and Arenas on MOP that were astounding looking and added more variety into the game. It was less grind so it was a great Xpac for a Casual like me who works, studies and doesn't have the whole day for WOW. On the other hand WOTLK PVP is more Dynamic and fastpaced (seems to me), its more punishing for mistakes but thats for the good, it pushes you more to improve, because if you don't than you will be stuck forever. I also love the Rank requirements for the PVP gear, even though max rank i've reached on Warmane has been 1,9k , im so excited to try to push for 1950 to get the helm and 2k for shoulders. It's like a better reward system for skill development, you not only get higher Rank, Achieve and Bragging Rights, but better (more exclusive) gear as well. I also like the fact that the Skills are more exclusive on WOTLK than on MOP. On mop everyone was a powercreep, everyone had a stun, interrupt, silence etc.etc. While on wotlk skill types, thus playstyles are more varied.
And btw, on WOTLK Warlock+Spriest or Warlock+ Rogue can chain CC you for 10 hours as well so i don't think that should be a factor of decision...Edited: June 16, 2017
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Banned
Another clueless pandakid.
Next, please.
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Member
For me, WOTLK was the expansion I grew up with as a kid. That's why I choose Wrath over MoP because the gameplay just does not feel quite the same and also because of my general disliking of the pandas and the asian theme etc.
I enjoyed Cata but after a while I began to really miss the old 1-60 leveling experience (the way it was before they revamped it) because it was not as easy as leveling 1-60 in cata/mop and so I genuinely liked the leveling challenge especially because I was still learning my class and was not familiar with all the zones.
I also liked the old talent trees because you could customize your character more to your personal play style.
So anyways, combined with the revamped look of Azeroth in Cata, once MoP came along with pandas, asia and revamped talent trees etc. etc. that is where it got to the point where the feeling of the game was no longer recognizable as the way I remembered it from 2008-2010
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Member
I have bis characters on both Icecrown and Frostwolf that I made right after molt-down. I think my Icecrown character has a higher played time.
However, I personally find PvP far more exciting on Frostwolf, and I think most PvP focused players also prefer FW. My personal preferences are:
1) No arena teams.
2) Rated BGs.
3) No PvE gear in PvP
I love arenas, but I find being restricted to playing only with one set of players very inconvenient. Given how the only arena realm on the private server community is a MoP realm, and the fact that many retail gladiators (many of whom have been in tournaments including Blizzcon) are playing said MoP realm, its safe to assume MoP is the expansion for arena players.
I also find the lack of Rated BGs ruin the PvP in WotLK. If you follow the BG scene on Icecrown, you'll notice how happy players get when they beat an opposite premade in a Random BG. The fact anyone is proud of beating another guild in a Random BG, where half or more of a team isn't even part of said PvP guild, is kind of pathetic. Personally I think if Warmane added a custom feature of Rated BGs to Icecrown, the overall Random BG environment would improve drastically, but I digress.
The last point is self-explanatory. As a PvP player, I have no interest in wasting either many many hours raiding to be competitive in PvP, nor do I want to be forced to donate to be competitive. MoP is the first (and only expansion on Warmane) where you don't have to spend time doing something completely unrelated to PvP to be competitive in said PvP.
Anyways, these three things make the PvP more enjoyable on MoP for me personally. I don't find the PvP boring on Icecrown in any way, I feel it's just far better for casual players whereas more serious, competitive players are more likely to enjoy MoP.
Each to his own.
Oh, as for OP. The reason more players play on Icecrown than Frostwolf is quite simple. Players play on the server that has less bugs. Currently that is Wotlk/TBC. After being neglected for 2 years, most of the MoP population left the server. I'm not stupid enough to say this without some sort of proof, so here it is:
As you can see, virtually the same number of players on WotLK and MoP. But since most players aren't stupid and see no point in playing on a broken realm, they all moved on from MoP. Unfortunate, because I really think a 12k MoP realm would have been quite exciting for PvP compared to the, somewhat garbage PvP we see on Icecrown today.
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Member
this screen is literally like 2 weeks after MOP release so ofc population was high.at this point WOTLK servers was out for few years aswell.btw just few monts later MOP pop dorp so hard that they had to fuse this 2 realms into 1.
you say MOP was bugged and broken on warmane and people move away from it? ok i can agree with that but exapliin why at the end of wrath WOW had 12mil subs and at the end of MOP they had only around 6.5 mil?
btw for your comments above i see your wanna log in for abit do arena or rated BG with whoever is online then log off.
well that dont sound like MMORPG to me.sound like casual game when you get in play few rounds log off,like overwatch for example,but with MMORPG playstyle.so probably thats why majority of MMORPG player hated it.as for casuals...well they casual players they stay few months and then move on.Edited: June 20, 2017
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Banned
MoP was far too casual. BGs are for casual PvPers, Arenas were the only place were your skill directly translate to the outcome.
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Incorrect, that picture is 2-3 months after MoP was first launched on Molten-wow. If you want a picture from 2 weeks after MoP was launched, here's one:
If you want a picture after a "few" months, here's one approximately after 8 or so months:
As you can see, even before Lordaeron's launch, MoP had a very healthy population. The population only declined after Lord's launch; was further hurt by Icecrown being launched; and is now at the lowest thanks to the TBC realm. I wouldn't use the population on Warmane to judge whether interest in an expansion exists, simply because players will play where they see fixes being applied. This was the case back when WotLK was ignored on Molten and Cata/MoP had larger populations than WotLK.
Well, as someone previously mentioned, the decrease in WoW's population is highly correlated with the launch of LoL. When Cataclysm came out, LoL was just finishing polishing their product and stole many players from WoW. Many other games also experienced similar population drops.
How would you define an MMO? Afking all day in Dalaran? Or killing The Lich King for the 200th time? I define casual as players who do normal raids and think Random BGs are PvP. Hardcore players would be ones that only raid Heroic at set times with their guild and/or spend their time in arenas (or with the launch of Cata, Rated BGs). For me PvP is the best part of WoW and while I'm sure many would disagree, that is what I enjoy the most. Furthermore, in my opinion, MoP PvP is superior to WotLK's. I welcome you to give both a try and let me know where you found arenas more enjoyable.
I would love to hear what part of MoP you find more casual than WotLK? Not that there's anything wrong with being a casual players, just curious what specifically you find to be more casual? BGs are the same, so that can't be it. Arenas are more competitive on MoP, and Rated BGs didn't even exist in WotLK.
Maybe you find World PvP to be the epitome of PvP? If that is the case, then I'll agree WotLK had better World PvP.
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Member
@-Notorious- since you like it so much simple play it :D i dont know why you try so hard to convince other people to play it aswell :D
for me as person who played worlk and MOP on retail and molten/warmane MOP is complate trash in every single aspect.why PVP is casual you ask?well first reason is there is many completely ******ed passive effects,such as 2nd wind for example or elemental shaman procks and so on.there was also so much more room for mistakes in MOP.in WOTLK if you make mistake its GG you lose.in Mop however you can **** up multiple times and still win.also dampening system /facepalm.blizzard made healer so broken and overpowered in PVP that they had to add dampening to the game.the fact they add this *****ic ILV scaling system where i can be fully PVP geared and be god in arena but if i go outside any random PVE warlock will 1 shot me.the CP catch up system thay add.so every pleb can get fully geared in 1 day.cant get more casual then that.also i guess you only played warmane MOP or other private servers but untill 5.4 MOP was 1 giants ****show.every patch some ******ed bug or broken spell. the begining with taste of blood then 5.2 arcane mage ******ed dmg there was so much fails in this expansion.
aside of PVP what you do in MOP? you run same raid 3 times a week LFR/normal/HC and do dailys.there was literally nothing else to the game.dugeons in MOP was like non existing.you can solo them as a tank.i remember some BM monk also soloed some raid boss...does that sound normal to you or like WOW at all?and there was very few raids compare to WOTLK.also tell me is it normal for you that complete noob he dont even know the basics of his class queue for LFR and kill garosh?does that sound normal to you?in LFR you can go afk no meter.even if you wipe you get dmg/healing bonus.the game is build so you cannot fail.its like literally not possible.
i honestly cant think of single thing about MOP that was good.
let me say it like that.from MOP and since WOW is completely different game.it does have the same name but its not the same product.its simple something different.and numbers say that most people dont enjoy it as much and its unable to hold players for long amount of time.Edited: June 23, 2017
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Member
There is nothing to be gained by further arguing this. All I wanted to do by posting here was show evidence that MoP's population drop on Warmane is not because it was an unpopular expansion, but because it was ignored. I feel I have presented the evidence I sought to. You made the claim that it was an unpopular expansion, but clearly it was quite popular before Warmane decided to focus solely on WotLK and then TBC.
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and all other people in this thread try to tell you that MOP is fun for little bit then become boring af.thats why people left MOP not because the expansion was ignored by warmane.when warmane released MOP WOTLK realms was up and running for few years already and retail was also on MOP.thats why there was so much hype about it.but ofc shortly after that the pop drop way down.that 8 months later screenshot you post show the true. only 8 months old MOP server already lost half of his population and WOTLK realms had x2 more people playing.today WOTLK realms who are so many years old have 15k population and MOP is 1-1.5k , thats 10 times more.PEOPLE DONT LIKE MOP.just accept the reality and stop coming with all kind of excuses about it.
Edited: June 24, 2017
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Member
Why I like wotlk and not mop.
I don't like the hp in mop (too much hp numbers), everyone flies, i don't like the pvp...too mutch buttons.
Wotlk seems to be more serious that's why i like that expansion...Cata and Mop don't have what i like in WoW.
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Member
As a guy who has started playing wow about two years ago and started on a MoP server, I can tell that MoP has the best setting and the remake of the questing made the game a bit more user friendly and orderly, yet very less characteristic.
Vanilla questing is a mess and actually requires some planning ahead, effort and, above all, feels very immersive just because of the rough edges. I loved questing up to 55, grind to 60 in Plaguelands excleuded of course, and the length yet - someone has to say this - depthlessness of the instances made them somewhere between a chore and a truly heroic feat, something that you didn't want to repeat on the same day yet you won't forget any time soon. I'm not sure, but loot tables seem much longer in WotLK compared to Vanilla and I suspect it's because WotLK instances can be cleared twice or more in a mere hour. The balance between user friendliness and grind was always a big point in MMOs and I think WotLK got as close as possible to this balance with short, enjoyable and challenging dungeons and quality raids. By the way, I loved being able to fly in the old world.
What I really like about WotLK is the immersive and incredibly fleshed out story, hands down the most enjoyable and interesting I found on a MMO. What I really dislike is that, like every damn videogame does, the further you are in the story, the more hellish, gritty and dark the game environment become. Give it a rest, I'm fed up with fighting in the damn hell for the tenth time over, that's something that MoP tried to avoid and it felt like fresh air to me. Sure there were some ****ed up things going on but you could see that the hellish stuff was sparse and covering actual restful, relaxed and legitimately beautiful places instead of.. lava, demons, lava demons and demon lava.
Does anybody know what Blizzard was thinking when they dropped Cataclysm? Those underwater areas were awful and I can't remember ever doing a dungeon levelling 80 to 85.
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Member
Look I have no interest in debating the merits of MoP and WotLK. I've told you before I play both and in my opinion, MoP is a better expansion for PvP. The only reason I posted is because you made claims that evidence did not back. I showed that MoP had more population when it was the main focus for development, and lost population after WotLK became the main focus. This is the exact same situation we saw with Cataclysm.
The reason I quoted the above is because, again, what you wrote is untrue. MoP on Warmane released in Mid-Late November, as can be seen by the following screenshot:
On November 6 2014, there is no announcement of the release of MoP (the PTR was named Stormstout and was down). MoP released between November 6 2014 and November 23 2014 as can be seen by the Marketplace being released then (screenshot below):
On retail, Warlords of Draenor released on November 13 2014 (see here)
Clearly when Warmane launched MoP, retail was already on Warlords of Draenor. In fact, MoP had managed to have 8k online during the launch of a new expansion on retail, something that I find quite extraordinary.
I don't care whether you like MoP or not. I don't care if you play it. Just research what you are typing beforehard. I did all of this research in 5 minutes (I checked how long I spent for my own sake). It is easy to access information as I provided all the urls.
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Field Medic Moderator
I personally feel that our MoP realm's current or past popularity has little relevance to whether the expansion is better than WotLK. I could not care less if hype caused our realms to be popular, for example, or that they are near dead now - MoP is likely the best, or tied for the best, expansion I experienced on live. My own personal preference on the expansion is that I hold it so dear to my heart that I refuse to play it on a private server unless the server in question is extremely close to Blizzard quality across the board in all parts of the game. No amount of popularity on a private server will ever convince me of anything but what my experience with it was on live. Yes, the expansion definitely has flaws, but I can't say it had so many as some other expansions. So which expansion would I say is better? It is actually hard for me to choose between the two, as they are my two favorite expansions.
