1. July 5, 2017  

    Best Rogue PVE Spec

    Being my first time on TBC I searched for guides about PVE Rogue and everything I found pointed towards Combat Swords, still every lvl 70 Rogue I see around (even tho I couldn't find any in high end gear) is equipped with Sword/Dagger and Hemo/Sub builds. Is this due to these builds being better here on Warmane (due to bugs and whatnot)? Can anyone confirm that Combat Swords is still the best dungeon/raiding spc here on Warmane too?

    Thanks

  2. July 5, 2017  
    Combat Swords.

    The people you're seeing in Hemo/Sub builds are PvPers.

  3. July 5, 2017  
    Combat swords = PVE

    Sub/hemo= PVP

    Nothing compare to Combat swords for PVE(raids,dungeons).

  4. July 6, 2017  
    Combat Swords.

    The people you're seeing in Hemo/Sub builds are PvPers.
    http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...00300110000000

    Hemo build is actually PvE as well. I only forgot which one is more gear dependent.

  5. July 7, 2017  
    That's a semi-viable 25-man melee-oriented build, Fluffy. Tons of important talents from deep Combat missing here.

  6. July 7, 2017  
    That's a semi-viable 25-man melee-oriented build, Fluffy. Tons of important talents from deep Combat missing here.
    Semi-viable? It's one of the best PvE specs, that's on par with pure Combat.
    Hell Zykgge was shredding the recounts with that build w/o any issues https://youtu.be/zY3KVfovgaA?t=2m37s
    Edited: July 8, 2017

  7. July 7, 2017  
    Semi-viable? It's one of the best PvE specs, that's on pair with pure Combat.
    Hell Zykgge was shredding the recounts with that build w/o any issues https://youtu.be/zY3KVfovgaA?t=2m37s
    i still think Combat swords with Sword specialization will outdps this build.

  8. July 7, 2017  
    i still think Combat swords with Sword specialization will outdps this build.
    It's completely on par. Spreadsheet shows that on equal gear Hemo Swords and Combat Swords are always very close to each other and which one comes out ahead depends on how you model the bonus damage the Hemo debuff gives (the less bonus damage procs you get to use yourself the lower personal DPS Hemo Swords has, obviously). There's also the difference between theoretical and practical DPS. Combat Swords is harder to play than Hemo Swords, because as Combat Swords you have to deal with Combat Potency procs and Adrenaline Rush, it's more prone to getting energy capped and losing DPS that way. As Hemo you don't have the problem that you're on 5 Combo Points while your Slice and Dice still has 8 seconds left for example, because you simply don't have that much energy. In practice you're always going to lose potential DPS as Combat because sometimes you just get too many Combat Potency procs during 1 Slice and Dice cycle and you have to weigh being energy capped for 2 seconds vs using Eviscerate and then having to use a 1 CP Slice and Dice.

  9. July 8, 2017  
    Hemo build is also a bit less gear depended due to Serrated Blades. The ARP of that talent should't be ignored by any means. Then when it comes to raid usefulness Hemo is better due to the debuff it self.

    It's completely on par. Spreadsheet shows that on equal gear Hemo Swords and Combat Swords are always very close to each other and which one comes out ahead depends on how you model the bonus damage the Hemo debuff gives (the less bonus damage procs you get to use yourself the lower personal DPS Hemo Swords has, obviously). There's also the difference between theoretical and practical DPS. Combat Swords is harder to play than Hemo Swords, because as Combat Swords you have to deal with Combat Potency procs and Adrenaline Rush, it's more prone to getting energy capped and losing DPS that way. As Hemo you don't have the problem that you're on 5 Combo Points while your Slice and Dice still has 8 seconds left for example, because you simply don't have that much energy. In practice you're always going to lose potential DPS as Combat because sometimes you just get too many Combat Potency procs during 1 Slice and Dice cycle and you have to weigh being energy capped for 2 seconds vs using Eviscerate and then having to use a 1 CP Slice and Dice.
    Hemo vs Combat skill cap is the same. The only difference is Hemo vs Sinister Strike spam, finisher will always be SnD and or Rupture. You simply can't allow yourself to get energy capped as a combat rogue.

    i still think Combat swords with Sword specialization will outdps this build.
    There is no "I think" when it comes to numbers and facts.
    Anyhow try the build and see it for yourself if it's better, on par or worse :p.

  10. July 8, 2017  
    Hemo build is also a bit less gear depended due to Serrated Blades. The ARP of that talent should't be ignored by any means. Then when it comes to raid usefulness Hemo is better due to the debuff it self.



    Hemo vs Combat skill cap is the same. The only difference is Hemo vs Sinister Strike spam, finisher will always be SnD and or Rupture. You simply can't allow yourself to get energy capped as a combat rogue.



    There is no "I think" when it comes to numbers and facts.
    Anyhow try the build and see it for yourself if it's better, on par or worse :p.
    Well, one thing to keep in mind when comparing this realm now, to the rogue in that video. That rogue is really high end geared, so perhaps with his setup, it might work well.

    My realms (back in TBC days anyway) guilds that first cleared the raids used combat spec, so idk. I feel like gear now compared to gear later on may make a difference.

  11. July 8, 2017  
    Well, one thing to keep in mind when comparing this realm now, to the rogue in that video. That rogue is really high end geared, so perhaps with his setup, it might work well.

    My realms (back in TBC days anyway) guilds that first cleared the raids used combat spec, so idk. I feel like gear now compared to gear later on may make a difference.
    Well TBC rogues shine in the end-game tiers. Hemo is slightly less gear dependent due to Serrated Blades and free dmg debuff debuff. Other than that they're pretty much both gear hungry specs to perform well.

  12. I rather have Sub rogues in dungeons, they bring much more control and outside of Bladeflurry they bring similar damage. A combat rogue is a liability if it tries to use Sap and at low gear levels combat is one of the weaker specs in the game for dungeons so you'd never take one for damage anyway. In raiding though most rogues are going to be combat, in my experience it always did better. I didn't see any sub rogues until Sunwell in organised raiding during retail, that's not to say Sub isn't good before then but there was a reason everyone runs combat in early tiers.

  13. Well, Blade Flurry causes rogues to get aggro on side mobs anyway. I'm already trying to keep aggro on the skull, I can't afford to do the same for a second one on which the rogue does identical damage for 10 seconds straight. I had this guy once who would use Blade Flurry on cooldown in a Hc SV or SHH, can't remember exactly, but he wasn't using Evasion with it (it has the same cooldown, why not?) and was pretty much dying all the time. I mean, yeah, BF does superb damage and definitely makes Combat outshine the two other specs in HCs, but if you're not gonna combine it with Evasion and just die, then what's the use? And after the BF + Evasion combo is over, just Vanish (which also has the same cooldown) and re-open. Easy.

    It's not like it's hard to just sidestep a bit so your Blade Flurry can cleave to another target in order to avoid aggro. But eh, I guess I'm getting elitist now, having played these 2 classes for 80% of my time.
    Edited: July 17, 2017

  14. Well, Blade Flurry causes rogues to get aggro on side mobs anyway. I'm already trying to keep aggro on the skull, I can't afford to do the same for a second one on which the rogue does identical damage for 10 seconds straight. I had this guy once who would use Blade Flurry on cooldown in a Hc SV or SHH, can't remember exactly, but he wasn't using Evasion with it (it has the same cooldown, why not?) and was pretty much dying all the time. I mean, yeah, BF does superb damage and definitely makes Combat outshine the two other specs in HCs, but if you're not gonna combine it with Evasion and just die, then what's the use? And after the BF + Evasion combo is over, just Vanish (which also has the same cooldown) and re-open. Easy.

    It's not like it's hard to just sidestep a bit so your Blade Flurry can cleave to another target in order to avoid aggro. But eh, I guess I'm getting elitist now, having played these 2 classes for 80% of my time.
    Agro isn't really a big issue for 2 targets, especially not if the rogue knows what he's doing (evasion/vanish) and especially not if you have a paladin tank. Most agro issues occur because of dps not giving the tanks enough time to actually apply threat, rather than pulling agro once it's established. I tank a lot of dungeons on my Warrior, and 99% of the time the problem is that we have 3 targets to tank and the dps has gone 100% on the first target (+secondary cleaving) within 1 second of the pull, when it takes around 6 seconds (GCD time) to apply enough threat to keep a healer safe from those 3 before focusing heavy threat on main target + secondary threat on the 2nd kill target.
    Edited: July 17, 2017

  15. Well, Blade Flurry causes rogues to get aggro on side mobs anyway. I'm already trying to keep aggro on the skull, I can't afford to do the same for a second one on which the rogue does identical damage for 10 seconds straight. I had this guy once who would use Blade Flurry on cooldown in a Hc SV or SHH, can't remember exactly, but he wasn't using Evasion with it (it has the same cooldown, why not?) and was pretty much dying all the time. I mean, yeah, BF does superb damage and definitely makes Combat outshine the two other specs in HCs, but if you're not gonna combine it with Evasion and just die, then what's the use? And after the BF + Evasion combo is over, just Vanish (which also has the same cooldown) and re-open. Easy.

    It's not like it's hard to just sidestep a bit so your Blade Flurry can cleave to another target in order to avoid aggro. But eh, I guess I'm getting elitist now, having played these 2 classes for 80% of my time.
    Blade Flurry and Evasion CDs don't line up, one is 2 min and one is 5.

    Regardless, it's up to the individual rogue to stay alive in situations where Evasion isn't available but Blade Flurry is, and you have quite the toolkit to do so. Feint, Vanish, multiple stuns and CCs -- there's really no excuse to die. As far as saps go, 99% of pulls in 5-mans can be sapped safely with the use of Distract and correct timing, even as Combat. There are one or two pulls that come to mind that are particularly sketchy, but all the issues mentioned above can be mitigated with playerskill.
    Edited: July 17, 2017

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