1. Nice guide, I wanna add (at least for my experience) that the assassination spec is quite simply to learn and has a nice output damage overall, but I won't choose it as a permanent end-game spec. Almost every top guild go in raid with combat rogues, and I see why, I was close to be BiS gear, 6300+ gs, BiS weapons, 25-30% haste, tried both hekumi and Taiaj trinket but couldn't pass 15k around on static bosses like saurfang/festergut/rotface. I mean for pug runs its pretty awesome and you probably will shine on the top of the dps meter, (maybe you will have some trouble surpassing smourne warrior) but if you want to maximize the damage done and be a dps god you should definitely go combat.
    Also if i didn't miss it while reading, no one mentioned that Taiaj is bugged, and should proc with offhands/poisons, which doesn't happen. Correct me if i'm wrong.
    Now i switched to combat and I see a huge difference, and I have way less gear. Not saying "go combat or you will suck" but keep in mind that this spec has some limitations, despite you good gemming, gearing and using a perfect talent build and a perfect rotation (my envenom uptime was close to 100%, by using 3cp envenom rather than waiting everytime for 4+ CP, which causes often to be without envenom buff for 3-4 seconds and that is a huge dps loss). so it depends on you about how you want to play, and what your guild is looking for.
    I personally changed to combat only because of my guild, but if I would chose I would stay assasination all the time, no doubt :)

  2. Nice guide, I wanna add (at least for my experience) that the assassination spec is quite simply to learn and has a nice output damage overall, but I won't choose it as a permanent end-game spec. Almost every top guild go in raid with combat rogues, and I see why, I was close to be BiS gear, 6300+ gs, BiS weapons, 25-30% haste, tried both hekumi and Taiaj trinket but couldn't pass 15k around on static bosses like saurfang/festergut/rotface. I mean for pug runs its pretty awesome and you probably will shine on the top of the dps meter, (maybe you will have some trouble surpassing smourne warrior) but if you want to maximize the damage done and be a dps god you should definitely go combat.
    Also if i didn't miss it while reading, no one mentioned that Taiaj is bugged, and should proc with offhands/poisons, which doesn't happen. Correct me if i'm wrong.
    Now i switched to combat and I see a huge difference, and I have way less gear. Not saying "go combat or you will suck" but keep in mind that this spec has some limitations, despite you good gemming, gearing and using a perfect talent build and a perfect rotation (my envenom uptime was close to 100%, by using 3cp envenom rather than waiting everytime for 4+ CP, which causes often to be without envenom buff for 3-4 seconds and that is a huge dps loss). so it depends on you about how you want to play, and what your guild is looking for.
    I personally changed to combat only because of my guild, but if I would chose I would stay assasination all the time, no doubt :)
    TaiJ works fine for assa rogue. It does proc poisons and on off hand hits. You need to understand that it has a 45% chance to proc on each hit NOT 100% chance.
    You're doing something really wrong, if you can't pass 15k in ICC with the 30% buff. I had no issues doing around 14k DPS in VoA and ToC.

    Then Gnimo managed to pull off around ~20k DPS on DBS in assassination spec (I didn't TotT him).

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...ne/?s=46&e=181 Gnimo 20k
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...e/?s=567&e=696 ToC Jaraxxus
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q...e/?s=337&e=450 VoA
    Edited: July 17, 2017

  3. TaiJ works fine for assa rogue. It does proc poisons and on off hand hits. You need to understand that it has a 45% chance to proc on each hit NOT 100% chance.
    You're doing something really wrong, if you can't pass 15k in ICC with the 30% buff. I had no issues doing around 14k DPS in VoA and ToC.

    Then Gnimo managed to pull off around ~20k DPS on DBS in assassination spec (I didn't TotT him).

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...ne/?s=46&e=181 Gnimo 20k
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...e/?s=567&e=696 ToC Jaraxxus
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q...e/?s=337&e=450 VoA
    Well probably I was doing some little mistakes, I'm not saying I was playing flawless but I didn't do crazy things like gemming arp or full AP as assasination (and I saw many, many rogues doing that sadly, or going with DBW trinket...and their dps is awful obviously), but I simply reached like a limit when my dps was kinda stuck, and I changed a lot my rotation and gemming, I tried multiple specs, gear (both 2/4 and 4/4), gems, enchants (black magic/mongoose), etc... until I found the best combination. My haste was good (unbuffed 1000-1200 maybe, if I remember right) but i felt like at some point haste wasn't so effective like at low gear, considering also improved icy talons and SnD already boosting your speed by a lot, not to mention bloodlust.

    I remember too at VoA i was ALWAYS first at the end of the fight, not denying it. At the beginning some combat rogues were using all cds and maybe surpass me, but at the end my damage done and dps was the best, in long tank and spank fights it's an awesome spec. Not complaining.
    Same for saurfang, I never reached 20k (because I wasnt full bis) I was close to be, and many times I ended first dps+damage done because of the constant damage but at the same time some classes with less gear than me were kinda close to reach me with no problem, and their gear could be improved a lot, while mine was missing only 277 feet, belt and ring (they were 264), so my updates werent going to boost me to the space with the dps. Thats my point when i was saying that i felt stuck somehow.

    About the Taij, yes the chances are not 100% obviously, but when you have all speed buffs and your offhands hits every 0.7, it's impossible that the trinket stacks proc so slowly, considering only offhands attacks, (yes offhand misses more ok but still..). Then if you add main hand also and abilities it should proc way more often imho, am I right? Like mutilate could give you 2 stacks if you're lucky with procs, but I never see stacks going like 1-3-4-6 or something, i could literally count them everytime 1-2-3-4-5... very very slowly..But I maybe be wrong, don't know if it is working as intended. Also at the end of the fight (long fight) it was like 1% damage overall the "stack explosion", very low..so I throwed that into the bank and switched to hekumi which was greater, at least for me.

    Just correct me If i'm wrong at some point, I'm just giving my experience.

  4. DBW is far from the worst trinkets in fact is one of the top 4. Even tho you're assassination u shouldn't ignore the fact that 50% of your damage is still PHYSICAL.
    As for TaiJ.

    Let's take VoA log into account:
    398 total hits that can proc Motes
    26 procs from TaiJ
    7x 26 = 182 7 procs cuz of trinket bein HC.
    398 -45% = 179

    It slightly under-procced but it's within that area.

    TaiJ's dmg on it's own is low aye 1.5-2% overall dmg, but you gotta count in the Instant Poison procs.

  5. Well thanks for the calculations about taij, but honestly in a fight i won't rely on a trinket that has no stats at all and does that low damage, i rather go with the battlemaster trinket with haste or hekumi or dbw... If only taij had some kind of stats I probably would use that, but since it hasn't...meh..I would use it just for replace Talisman of the Tundra, no other cases I think. But these are preferences, it's not the end of the world going or not with Taij

    By the way consider the other arguments I wrote, I think its good for every rogue here to know exactly what to expect when playing assasination, I personally felt a bit sad when almost full BiS I discovered I couldn't push more than that. I even talked to several top rogues and they confirmed me the "dps stuck theory", which I explained in my previous posts.

  6. If only taij had some kind of stats I probably would use that, but since it hasn't..
    85 hit !? msg too short

  7. It does have one of the better stats, don't be ignorant. And it does bring damage, if we count in the instant poison it's probably around 5-7%(My VoA log makes it prolly near the 5%). Since if envenom is up your dear trinket has ~65% chance to proc Instant Poison which may or may not crit.

    As for other arguments... they mean nothing to me as you only stated out your haste which by itself can be worthless. Assa rogge is a balance of hit, crit, haste, AP and ARP yes ARP as well. Like you stated ya've got 1000-1200 haste and you didn't manage to do gud DPS, while am topping with 700-800(~20%) haste. So we're missing something here don't ya agree?

    Also I don't know who these top rogues are, but many of the "top rogues" ik were talking much whilst doing little :> . Assa rogue can be top 5 on DPS meters, but for that you gotta do more than just press mutilate and envenom. TotT trading with other rogues, haste pots, .. come here in play as well.

    BiS assa rogue should do around ~13.5k steady DPS(All buffs present, haste pot, tott trading) and you simply gotta deal with it. Your "DPS stuck theory" kicks in only after you've mastered the class and got access to BiS gear.
    Edited: July 17, 2017

  8. Yes, i forgot the hit rating my apologies, still i was high enough with hit rating even without taij so I was playing with different trinket. If we want to really go in deep we maybe should do proper comparisons between taij, battlemaster with haste, dbw and hekumi, and see which one is the best.
    Well about top rogues, i think one of them is Shadowstep, I think he made an assasination guide, but can't confirm that 100%. Maybe he just replied in the topic and I noticed him somehow. When i was checking his armory I never caught him with taij, for example.

    Edit: Now i looked at him on armory and he is combat..damn

  9. Define "high enough". One does not simply go PvP trinket as assa rogge ;_;....

    STS --> TaiJ ---> War Token ---> DBW --> WFS assuming BiS gear. Your PvP trinket has nothing besides the 3.9% haste. Plus if it were good in some way, I believe Aldriana would've included it in the spreadsheets.

    Shadowstep = Gnimo. He did use TaiJ not so long ago. He went either TaiJ, War Token or DBW. And the DPS difference between those is insignificant (TaiJ 13687.3, Token 13663.2, DBW 13661.9) we could say better RNG is the winner.
    As for him being one of the top hmm.. a rogge that can't manage energy seems rather problematic to be worthy of that title xD

  10. Assa rogge is a balance of hit, crit, haste, AP and ARP yes ARP as well. Like you stated ya've got 1000-1200 haste and you didn't manage to do gud DPS, while am topping with 700-800(~20%) haste. So we're missing something here don't ya agree?
    Yes i do agree, but I was so much haste because I did some tests with different gems/spec, and for me the spec without Lightning Reflexes and with Relentless Strike was working slighty better than the classic one. The envenom uptime was great and I managed to do more 4+ cp envenom. With the old spec I remember 4+ envenom was something pure rng'ish based on crits (seal fate). All of my tests were done without proc trinkets, to prevent spike damage and random stats boost, the only thing involved was rng

  11. Define "high enough".
    Mmh over 12% unbuffed?

    One does not simply go PvP trinket as assa rogge ;_;....
    Yea probably shouldnt have put it in the bis trinket list xD Still as a starter assa before icc content is not so bad i think... I remember i used it a lot.

    Shadowstep = Gnimo. He did use TaiJ not so long ago. He went either TaiJ, War Token or DBW. And the DPS difference between those is insignificant (TaiJ 13687.3, Token 13663.2, DBW 13661.9) we could say better RNG is the winner.
    This is some good info, thanks

    As for him being one of the top hmm.. a rogge that can't manage energy seems rather problematic to be worthy of that title xD
    Well let's say a decent rogue then? :D

  12. So I suppose the conclusion of you doin potato DPS is:

    a) Bad gear optimization
    b) Class bugs (idk when did ya touch assa roge for the last time)
    c) Lack of raid buffs
    d) Ya being a potato rogge
    Edited: July 17, 2017

  13. Tiny Abomination in a Jar:
    Hit rating = Less miss = more Melee Attacks Hit
    More Melee Attacks Hit = more Poison procs
    More Melee Attacks Hit + more Poison procs = more Mote of Anger
    More Mote of Anger = more TaiaJ procs
    More TaiaJ procs = even more Poison procs
    This is why Tiny Abomination in a Jar is good, not cos of the 1.5% of overall DMG, its good cos it increases poison count by a lot.

    Deathbringer's Will:
    1400 atk power / 700 haste procs give u **** ton of burst (something assasin rogues otherwise dont have).
    DBW is BiS in any fight that ends right after ur 2nd DBW proc ran off (aslong as both procs are not agility).
    50% of Assasin Rogue dmg = Physical dmg so Armor Penetration is usefull.
    Anyone who claims DBW is **** trinket for assasin, never ever equiped it and never gave it a chance.

    As for the Top Rogue and some kind of "Energy Management" as a Rogue:
    FITE ME FLUFFYFEGIT!!!

  14. So I suppose the conclusion of you doin potato DPS is:

    a) Bad gear optimization
    b) Class bugs (idk when did ya touch assa roge for the last time)
    c) Lack of raid buffs
    d) Ya being a potato rogge
    I never did potato DPS, i simply stated out that I could not do push more, and people with 400gs less than me were very close to beat me in term of dps, and now that I'm combat that doesn't happen anymore.
    a) I was checking assa rogue topic and I read like all 15+ pages of pros and cons, people reporting their experience and so on, so I did my best... also armory doesn't lie, by browsing top pve guilds i searched for every assa rogue with high rank in guild and their gear was the same of mine, just 3-4 pieces 277 more than me, i had them 264 (belt, ring, feet), so I was close to be BiS
    b) The only bug I noticed was the FoK energy regain
    c) I did have all the buff and potions of course
    d) Not true I swear...!

    At the training dummy boss I was doing 6.5-7k max with assassination spec, which I dont think it's bad. So my rotation or energy management was good I think, despite me being a potato :>
    What should be the dps at the training dummy as assa with a perfect gear/rotation? Because i really couldnt push more than that..

  15. Me and gnimo pulled off 7.2-7.5k on the dummy.
    Edited: July 17, 2017

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