1. May 27, 2021  
    https://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=57993

    In my opinion it doesn't depend on hit. Its damage does, but self-buff shouldn't depend on hit. It's like Slice and Dice with damage.
    Fair Point. What I'm thinking about is if this makes it worth not going hard for expertice cap. Since the envenom buff is more important than the actuall damage from the envenom hitting the target. Right? You also receive energy back if the envenom fail to hit the target from talents. I've seen a lot of people do this on frostmourne in T7 gear, my thinking is that you "waste" a lot of other stats when gearing and gemming to reach the expertice cap, especially early on in the expansion.


  2. Hi Silverflash,

    I downloaded the spreadsheet above and my [MH Base Cric Rate] and [White Cric Cap] is highlighted red.
    Does that means I am over my cric cap?

  3. Hi Silverflash,

    I downloaded the spreadsheet above and my [MH Base Cric Rate] and [White Cric Cap] is highlighted red.
    Does that means I am over my cric cap?
    Sorry for the late answer(the forums are pretty much dead,and let's just say they're behind current forum standards for functionality by 10-15 years),but yes,it should mean that. You're either very "low" on hit,low on expertise(26) or you're gemming agility(?) to reach the crit cap with assa. Both my drive and local copy is using bis gear/gemming by default,and they're under the crit cap.

    "You may as-well use this macro ingame. It'll print out your crit cap:(It assumes you got 2/2 Weapon expertise and 5/5 Precision):

    /script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage ("White Crit Cap: "..(0.808-(math.max(136-GetCombatRating(24),0))*0.000305-(722-GetCombatRating(6))*0.000305)*100) "
    Edited: November 29, 2021

  4. Guys, is Combat rogue better or ?
    Edited: April 19, 2022 Reason: Missclicked letter

  5. Guys, is Combat rogue better or ?
    int 3.3.5, bis combat rogue is better than bis assa

    for low gs i prefer to play assa tho

  6. Main weapon should be as slow as possible but for a different reason than poisons. Your main weapon has higher chance for instant poison aply if its slower but also it applies lesser number of hits per second. Those two facts compensate each other and you will have the same poison rate no matter of how fast your main weapon is. The true reason for the slow main hand is just higher dmg from Mutilate (or Fan of Kives if you are about to AoE). And veeeeeery litle bit higher dps if you are using taij.
    Edited: August 8, 2022

  7. Sup,

    kinda newish to Assa Rogue and i saw plenty of different people gemming different, aiming for different stats etc. So im wondering, whats correct and whats wrong? The guide states expertise cap should be reached, but i also met rogues who said **** expertise, since envenom cant be dodged/parried in the way that it still applies the buff and gives you back energy. so they just stack AP.

    personall, i went for expertise cap, even with gemming. should i stay this way, or focus just on Hit cap and pump into AP?

    Also, what best way is it to use combopoints in terms of Envenom? Do i want to have it up nearly 100%, even if i have to use Envenom at 3 Combopoints, or do i only Envenom at 4 or 5 Combopoints?
    Edited: August 11, 2022

  8. Try to have Envenom buff all the time, but do not clip it if its possible! Its just like the DoTs of the Warlock and SPriest, try to use it right after the buff is over for maximum effect! This means to even use 3CP Envenom if needed!

  9. Vigor glyph?

    ^Those values go for warmane only. My values're taken for retail (ElitistJerks).
    Did you consider taking Vigor talent and 1/2 speed talent which gives you 8% movement speed which is like
    as you took Vyrkul's enchant or smth not sure the name.

    together with glyph which gives you additional 10 energy all together 120 full energy cap.

    Also you didnt mention talent for Rupture but you were talking about using Rupture with 4t10 set.
    Not sure if it was a mistake cus it seemed odd to me taking movement speed instead 30% dmg on Rupture + glyph of Rupture / Evis

  10. There is also one thing I want to complain :)

    Using Shiv as an opener. I think its better than anything else.

    What you loose:

    * The plain difference between Shiv dmg and other opener (Garrote/Mutilate) ability dmg.

    What you gain:

    * Shiv is 20 energy cheaper so you aply your first Envenom about 2 seconds earlier.
    * You have 100 percent guaranteed by the ability that you will aply deadly poison from start (note you dont have envenom yet)

    There are two other downgrades as Shiv in general but non of them is actually an issue

    1) Only 1 combopoint gain. But you will use that combopoint for the first Slice and Dice (which you will refresh anyway using Envenom) so it does not matter how much combopoint your first ability generate.
    2) Poison cannot crit either. But you start with 0 stacks of Deadly poisons. So poison from your first Shiv will give you an extra stack and help you to build 5th stack earlier. Deadly poisons cannot crit anyway so the fact that poison from shiv cannot crit is pointless here.

  11. Off hand misses more than main hand?
    How about u read the guide once again and take it slow.
    And where you explaining why MH should be slowest dagger ? You only explained why u should use IP for slowest dagger
    Originally Posted by Fluffybully
    Should be your slowest and highest DPS dagger that you have. The main reason for that is Instant Poison. The slower your weapon is the more chance it has to proc the Poison itself(Only base weapon speed counts not hasted via talents, haste gems etc..)
    I see some rogues started to play with fast dagger in MH and slow OH. Is it cause of last fix like:
    Fixed Mutilate not having 2 chances to proc mainhand poison
    ?

    And check this:
    https://imgur.com/Rd4MYjP
    from 3:49
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9wc1E1nfa8

    but in the comments I came across an opinion
    sparda9060
    it doesn't matter since wrath will be using ICC patch tuning which normalized poison proc chance to PPM instead of Proc chance rate. Thus your procs is increase and decrease based on the weapon's speed. Not sure which tuning those Private servers are using so they could be right or wrong.
    and other opinion
    DreamK33PeR
    The reason for that is because your off-hand weapon will do less white damage on swing, even with the talent in the combat tree(which is called Dual WIeld Specialization). So just having really fast off-hand weapon just for the poison procs is better.
    So what u think about it? Mb this dude tested it for 3.0.3 not 3.3.5

  12. Using https://wowsims.github.io/wotlk/rogue/ , i get like +100 dps with HC WFS over HC TAIJ at BIS gear, hc DBW even better at 300 extra dps which is crazy. Checking the detailed log, i get around the same proc in warmane raid as the sim(full raid setting, im checking surfang log), and it has an effect on instant posi procc too so the simulation is accurate i think. Imo unless you can get TAIJ for very low dkp, its not worth going for.

  13. Using https://wowsims.github.io/wotlk/rogue/ , i get like +100 dps with HC WFS over HC TAIJ at BIS gear, hc DBW even better at 300 extra dps which is crazy. Checking the detailed log, i get around the same proc in warmane raid as the sim(full raid setting, im checking surfang log), and it has an effect on instant posi procc too so the simulation is accurate i think. Imo unless you can get TAIJ for very low dkp, its not worth going for.
    It is becouse there are several errors in the sim for the rogue. Look closely to the timeline. It says that hit from the TaiJ can glancing blow but in the real game it cannot. There is also a very poor Envenom management. I see in my test 4.4k dps on instant poisons and 5.8k on autoattacks. This is far from the reality. These numbers should be very close to each other if you do Envenom properly. So having less dps in poisons naturally hype armor penetration trinket and does not sees superior that trinket which is mostly about boosting your poisons.

    Both combat and assassination simulations has a problem becouse it seems that sim does not pool energy at all. That is bad for assa. Combat has it own problem in there like 10 sinister strikes in a row during Adrenaline Rush without Eviscerate or any finishing move in the middle.

    You can trust the rogue for phase 1 perhaps becouse autors mostly debug it in order to fit to the wotlk classic. But dont trust any results for icc phase at all. In wotlk classic ppl are using envenom/rupture assasination rogue mostly when pooling energy is not so vital.
    Edited: November 25, 2022 Reason: Missing quote

  14. Fok

    How do you optimize FOK as assa rogue? I did some testing, and it seems that the proc rate taking the current auto attack speed into account, so all the haste, talents and buffs, all lowers the chance of proccing instant posi when using FOK.
    With my full assa rog gear, and 1.4 weapons, i got 1 instant proc per 4 FOK hit. Without haste gear, the same 1.4 weapon did 1 instant procc per 2 FOK hit. Is this correct behavior? There is no way to compete with combat rog FOK because of all the haste that we have? I even brought the 2.5 speed daggers that every1 uses in classic, but my AOE damage did not improve much.
    I did the testing with pulling hundreds of mobs in instance, i also tried the 2.5 weapon dagger in ICC(dragons front of syndra 25), and it was a disappointment, CROG with LK weapons did way more dmg(and no, not from blade flurry).

    Can somebody test this on classic please? Do they also using current weapon speed to calculate instant posi procc rate, rather than base weapon speed?

    https://youtu.be/SO3ZhKEFV8w?t=368
    He recommends hyperspeed, snd, and also has haste talent in his AOE hybrid talent, but that makes no sense to me if the instant posi procreate gets much lower with faster auto attack rate(unless classic has different way of calculating the proc rate).

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