hello all
i start playing wow from the lk and i always played ret paladin and i wanted to start a new one in tbc but i heared its realy bad for pve cause of low dps
and cant do ****
is that true ?
what i should roll then ?
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Member
is RET rly bad for pve and pvp ?
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Member
Great for BGs, pretty awful in Arena, but it can work if you are good. You just won't glide to 2k+ like a Lock Druid Rogue or Warrior. You're forced to play with a RSham in 2s, and RSham/Warrior in 3s. They aren't bad comps, but they are your only comps that don't suck total ***
For PvE it's one of the best buff ***** specs in the game, if not the best
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Member
pve:
-Ret absolutely NEEDS windfury totem, if you don't you have by far the lowest dps in the entire game (especially if alliance).
-enhance provide better raid buffs and have higher dps (and it doesn't need another class to do that unlike ret).
-most of the time there will be a hpally to give primordial buffs like BoS
-you refresh seals, give + 2% dps to your group, +3% crit to all dd/tanks in the raid
pvp:
-duelling: > almost < everything kills you
-bg: can remove lots of snares and roots but aside from that you are a warrior without ms (zero pressure) and with huge mana issues.
-arena: ret/rsham only. It's a mid-tier setup, can do well against popular dubble dps teams like rm but has huge problems dealing with things involving rdruid.Edited: June 5, 2017
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Banned
Weird that ret/rsham struggle against resto dudu. Use Judgement of Justice on the dudu so he can't flee in travel form. Then keep purging all his hots and frost shock him while the ret tries to global the dudu with a lucky WF+SoC proc.
In theory that should work...
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Member
keep in mind Vallismed is like biggest ret hater on the forum.he have multiple post how bad and unplayable rets are in TBC so his opinion is not objective at all.
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Member
At low elo you can kill a rdruid pretty easily yes. But once they know how to fake cast shaman's kick rdruid setups become a living nightmare of frustration.
Because of one thing: you lose every trade.
-Against warrior mortal strike will literally destroy you: warriors can train and snare you day'n night and your shaman will be oom when the druid is like "lol I didn't innerv u noob". The druid will always try to outrange the repentance (20yd) and judgment (10yd) so the only safe gap closer is BoF. But here comes the clone ! If the druid knows how to fake-cast properly he can instantly cancel your pitiful attempt of aggression. If he doesn't and you manage to hoj (10yd) his humanoïd form one of their cooldown is enough to cancel your assault: trinket, NS, fear, disarm. If you hoj his bear form he will cast a /lol into /taunt, annihilating your faith in the light (wf has a 3 sec cd so druids can wait the proc in bear form and heal themselves right after, freely). If warrior doesn't do a stupid thing like intercepting the BoF or blowing all of his cd to overpeel an aggression, they should win.
-Against hunter: shaman's dispel, totem's dispel and cleanse aren't enough to prevent you from being oom. If a single viper sting stays on you you are doomed, and they have tons of cc to achieve that. Scorpions are cancer. There is no need to explain why a oomed ret can't kill a rdruid I think.
-Against sl/sl: *crying*
-Against sub: well. They take tons of damages. They take tons of damages when you hit them, i.e. never. 40% to 50% dodge, more with ghostly strike and becomes literally immortal under evasion. They win their trades because of wound poison and above all can cancel every single attempt of aussault with... gouge. You want to switch? YOU FOOL ! STUN GOUGE INTO STUN INTO STUNSTUNSTUN INTO BLIND GOUGE STUNSTUN ! Is there some kind of imbalance here? Probably yes. Just a little one.
-Against enhance? Idk, this is a pretty uncommon setup :/
There will always be druids saying ret burst is insane but they forget that 90% of the time it doesn't happen at all... and they just win. Yes when they lose it's quite spectacular so everyone remember it, but it's the exception. As ret you have two gods: the light, and your luck.
Rdruid setups aren't your hardest counter as ret/sham but they are really really common, that's why I mentioned them.
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Member
A few more things:
-you don't have divine storm
-your judgments doesn't deal any damages (SoC judgment hits for about 400 when you are full bis looooooool)
-SoC has a proc rate of 7 per minute, most of the time you only hit with a white swing
-cs deal 110% of your wd but has 6 sec cd (instead of 4 during tlk)
= you are a victim if you don't play horde
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Member
Vallismed has literally no clue what he's talking about lmao
It's true Ret isn't amazing this expansion for PvE or PvP. In PvE what it lacks in damage it makes up for in terms of incredible buffs and utility, which are 3% Crit to the entire raid, 2% Damage to Party, refresh ALL judgements including other Paladins meaning 100% uptime on JotC JoW and JoL, and the all-important 3rd raid blessing since nobody is taking 2 Protadins or 2 HPalas.
PvP is definitely weaker than WotLK which is really the pinnacle of Ret balance, but it is far from unplayable. Big problem with this expansion is everything can be purged/spellstolen, and half of all classes have a purge or spellsteal. Wings is spellstealable so you are never allowed to wings against a mage. The big downside is that a lot of your damage is tied to to RNG, where if you don't get windfury procs or command procs, you will lose in 2v2. In 3v3 you play more of a support role, just like in BGs, where damage is actually not your focus, but good timing on your support spells can save you games. In 3v3, your Warrior will be the main source of damage, and you only really need to focus your damage when your team gets a good burst window open. Your Warrior will be doing most of the pressure anyways. As Ret your real job is keeping your Shaman alive since Rsham are so easy to train, and applying pressure if your RSham is free. Your CCs can be very rewarding, but because of their long CDs, you will be punished if you **** them up. Also, Judgement of Command crits for over 1k on a stunned target without Judgement of the Crusader, and near 2k with JotC. You'll probably be bursting on a stunned target anyways.
In short, I wouldn't recommend Ret to anyone, but if you are truly dedicated and you know it's what you want to play, you can do very well with it. It's not like Vanilla where Ret is dog****, you just need to accept that your DPS will be *** in PvE, and you are there for the buffs. And in PvP, you are more of a support role than a burst role.
PvE: Blood Elf > Draenei (1% Melee hit to party, you're a buff spec, might as well go full buff) > Human (5 expertise for personal dps) > Dwarf
PvP: Dwarf > Blood Elf > Human > Draenei
Stoneform master race
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Member
Saying that after making a copy paste of my comment is actually quite funny ^^
Except for that.
Trading your best tool to put yourself in combat, your aoe silence and your best dps spell for... stoneform? You are not a warrior struggling to remove wounds, you are a ret with cleanse, playing with a shaman with cleansing totem and cure. I think you are wrong. :<
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Field Medic Moderator
I can't say I've ever really understood why someone would focus on 2's with a spec that is significantly stronger in 3's. Seems everyone on this forum has that same disposition, and it baffles me.
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Member
Because 3s is dead on most private. Don't thank me.
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Member
Btw hpally/warr/rsham tends to be stronger than ret/warr/rsham imo.
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Member
I would just like to point out that as a s3 gladiator on retail, a large portion of the top .5% of comps were resto shaman/melee set ups do to windfury totem being simply too good. Of those teams over 50% of them represented included a retribution paladin because of their highly valued control kit. Adding in arcane torrent since the majority of these gladiator paladins were blood elfs. If you take the time to simply search youtube for tbc gladiator ret you will litterally find hundreds of video footage from various users. It was a very popular set up and a high tier competitive set up. Also as shown in a few video demonstrations vs different comps, you will see that rdruid comps were never a problem for the set up and honestly seemed to be one of the strengths of the ret pally/resto shaman/melee comps.
That was pretty much the real logistics of retail during season3. I played a lock/holy pally/ rogue
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Member
Ret is an incredibly bursty class. You've got really one combo, and once your HoJ is down you lose your burst damage. Timing is key while playing ret, you really want your stun-lock to tie in with a hammer of wrath. You'll be completely reliant on SoC procs and crits after that. So you can be in a 1v1 fight and it can go really good or really bad just based merely on procs and crits. I've always liked Ret because of their survivability whereas warrior you really need a healer behind you to survive. As someone else said, they have quite a bit of utility. Good thing about rolling Ret is, once you inevitably get tired of it, you can switch to holy and be a beast.
If you were planning to go arena and wanted a melee class, I'd say warrior because of their mortal strike. Paladin has nothing on mortal strike in arena.
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Member
http://web.archive.org/web/200807201.../rankings/2v2/
5 shamans
2 paladins
0 ret/sham
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