so lets say im the cucked warrior with solarians, tsunami vs dst for arms tsunami wins but best optimal without being cucked by SS DST and tsun youd say is still best?
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He is saying DST is technically the best trinket as a standalone. That means it beats Tsunami aswell. If you can play around the haste proc that is.
The potential of ****ing it up is pretty big, so unless you're certain that you're up to the challenge you're more likely to see better results with Tsunami.
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hmmm... if i do end up buying it, ill let you guys know, theres a good chance if tsunami drops i will end up getting it so i dont think i will buy that but DST is still extremely elusive for my guild
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Will this one work?
https://rawr.codeplex.com/releases/view/17339
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You can use it to help with gearset building, but it's pretty bad when it comes to item ranking for Warriors.
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How would you rate the vashj dagger for t5 offhands? I know weapon normalization speed is a factor for whirlwind and the base damage is also much lower than the slower offhands, you have a section in your pawn values for weapon speed so im thinking that is the value you assigned to address this issue, i used the pawn values and came up with 355.6288 for the dagger which would be considerably higher than the alternatives.
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Syphon of Nathrezim vs Rod vs Dragonstrike kgo
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DS > Syphon, the weapon sadly doesn't seem too interesting. Now if Blizzard had swapped stats on Syphon and Swiftsteel Bludgeon it'd be a different story...
Rod pre-fix > DS for sure (as long as the extra rage is utilized (and you wouldn't be overcapped). After nerf, not too sure. Never had to chance to try it sadly.
With S3 weapons out I personally didn't really think about this as they'd outperform all 3.
Execute weapons is a more interesting topic imo, having Heartrazor, Tracker's Blade and Boundless Agony.
Then with potential weapons coming up such as S3 Off-Hand or Daggers even (OH=1.5 speed, Daggers 1.80 or 1.40) and of course the BT trash Mace (Swiftsteel Bludgeon).
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Both yes and no. Assuming a Enha, able to use WW and t5+ gear the DS oh would have 50% + uptime, which could be argued to yield higher returns of rage. Too bad the Rawr module for Fury is utter crap and not included in the official release. For exe phase it wont be a top contender, but without testing I wouldn't count DS out of the s3+ weapon contention.
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Hm, where did you get 50% from? Last time I checked it was significantly lower. As quoted from the exessive testing done by Quattro.
Dragonstrike Note (T4/T5) : Dragonstrike (+ variants) are calculated at 35% main hand, 18% offhand for total of 53% uptime when dual-wielded (already accounting for overlap)
However that is airing on the side of caution and as much as 60% + can be possible while dual-wielding, depending on the fight, on the level of min-maxing
(Group Setup, LW Drums, Haste pots) taking place, and trinkets like Dragonspine Trophy, all which effect uptime. With that in mind it should be noted that dual-wielding
Dragonstrike is a highly effective setup that you would not need to replace prior to Warglaives or Vengeful Gladiator (Season 3) weapons. But also note that Dragonstrike Main Hand + a non crafted
offhand such as Talon of Azshara or better still Rod off the Sun King / T6 weapons can be equally effective, or slightly superior.Dragonstrike (T6) : Calculated at 36% + 19% accounting for overlap (55% overall uptime), offhand ranking for DS always assumes you have one in the MH, but not the opposite.Dragonstrike (Sunwell) : Calculated at 38% + 21% as per above for 59% overall uptime, also consider the value of haste increases noticeably at Sunwell gear levels due to scaling with Arp/Crit/AP.Dragonstrike Dual Wield vs other offhands (Tier 5) - Dragonstrike offhand uptime needs to be approximately 24% (after overlap) in order for it to match Talon of Azshara or Merciless Gladiator weapons.
That means to reach a combined weapon uptime of around 59-60% over a fight (vs MH DS at 35% + Talon offhand), and approximately 64-65% uptime to match Rod of the Sun King as an offhand.
Though Rod loses effective value on fights with high incoming damage, as the rage proc becomes considerably devalued bringing the value down closer to Talon of Azshara. At Sunwell levels it would
require you to reach approximately 74% uptime combined with Dragonstrike x2 to match Dragonstrike MH (at 37% uptime) + Vengeful offhand. For Dual Dragonstrike to match Dual Vengeful (no racial bonus)
it would require you to reach a combined uptime of appoximately 78% on Dragonstrike.Hm, that's a lot of text but should answer the questions at least.Final note on Dragonstrike : Pawn values are based on averages, having procs during trinket cooldowns and such generally provides a much more powerful overall benefit during
that short period than the averaged sum would over an entire fight. Though similarly, having no proc during important moments can devalue the strength of the weapon. With these factors considered
take into account that Dragonstrike's Haste average contribution in pawn may be slightly undervaluing the proc at times, but situational factors could both favour or work against it in overall contribution.
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Based on my Procodile data I have a 43% uptime when using DS OH (data on SSC + TK run, incl trash), without Dragonspine and pre hyjal gear. I do suppose someone in hyjal gear has to test it and report back. Tho' im pretty sure Quattro isolated boss fights only, for which his data seems plausible, yet low.
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When testing the maces we had incredibly high proc rate in the beginning, 53+% on dummies with no shaman, as Lulleh quoted above. With further testing in raids and more on dummies I at some point noticed a significantly worse procrate, as we had a hard time getting above 43% while dualwielding. I can't tell you why, but we did see a decrease in DPS in the same period, and a stealth nerf is a possibility. The later tests where we couldn't break 43% consistently were both with and without WF totem.
Another thing to be noted is that at the time of testing dummies couldn't dodge (thank you for pointing that one out to us, Lulleh :P) so the procrates were giving us too high numbers overall aswell, which forced us onto testing on bosses. Most bosses either has some way to inflate uptime through cleaving, or severe downtime periods. They are also way too short. As such you do get a more realistic view of the potential of the weapons on a boss by boss basis, but it doesn't get easy giving the weapons a flat rating for simple comparison, which is the idea with the spreadsheet.
If my memory doesn't fail me, then Lulleh is correct and s3 weapons pull ahead for DS. We were, however, testing DS in the offhand as a possibility before both of us quitting. We were seeing numbers at around 23-26% uptime on dummies.
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I think the distinction that needs to be made is whether or not you aim for boss numbers or bis OH for an entire raid. Downtimes allow for ICD reset, which greatly improves procrate data for multiple separate pulls, whereas dummy data, even if dummies can't dodge, won't see the same ICD reset and thus in general lower a uptime percentage. Also, uptime data from procodile isn't too reliable for entire runs as it counts uptime both in and out of combat. I'll see if I can sort out a way to change that behavior, or be able to forward it to someone who know-s what they are doing in the wow lua environment.
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It's been a while since I played, but iirc DS doesn't have an ICD just a flat proc chance, which means it also scales incredibly well with haste and WF tottem.
DPSmate is the addon we used to track uptime, but I believe it had the same issue in a raid enviroment, though you can manually tell it to stop tracking and re-enable it.
Iiirc for cleave fights DS may be significantly better than anything untill you get dual glaives simply because of the increased uptime is immense, but don't quote me on that
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We did some quite extensive testing to come to those numbers, I put in a really unreasonable amount of time into that sheet tailored around Warmane specifically so I'm very confident with where Dragonstrike lays in the pecking order, both Lulleh and Kiszh also helped me with it during that time and it was really a passion project.
That said I don't play anymore, guilds met their untimely deaths and I've been busy in real life so Quattro is relaxing for a while. Syphon isn't especially a great weapon but it still needs to be tested on Warmane, where it is ranked on the sheet is where I expect it based on retail numbers. S3 weapons are without a doubt better than Dragonstrike on the average, but of course if luck is on your side DS can come out on top.. You're comparing margins, RNG can favour either setup which is why we use averages and some critical thinking on situational factors, with this considered the S3 weapons are clear ahead.
If it were my character I would be using 2x S3 weapon until Warglaives.
Dragonstrike doesn't have an internal cooldown.Edited: January 5, 2018
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