Burning Crusade Warrior DPS Spreadsheet for Arms and Fury

[SegaRally]

Actually in reality it's about equal, to be honest the stat value of Crit at T6 onwards needs to drop very slightly in the weights on the pawn sheet as it's still using the same numbers as T5 where 1 crit is slightly more valuable than 2ap (it is the only stat that has not been adjusted). For early gearing the scryer enchant is better, but that's about it, in the long run the aldor one is about equal, depends on your gear setup because 2 ap is so close to 1 crit that switching one item can sway the difference in the favour of either, you'd actually need a modern simulation tool like current simcraft to accurately pinpoint those crossover points though.

Some big issues I noticed last night, I've been saying how my dps has not increased very recently with new upgrades, I noticed last night that Windfury totem is now following the white/melee swing hit table instead of the special attack hit table, that means Windfury procs can now miss and are also subject to 25% glancing blows.. This is massive, for what it's worth I'm about 90% sure this new and has come about recently, it isn't affecting Windfury Weapon procs from the Shamans weapon enchant.

It's quite a big deal actually, with Windfury procs being able to glance we take not only a raw damage loss but also a considerable rage generation loss with misses and a huge number of glances on procs. I've made a bugtracker report about it, so mods don't ding me for not reporting bugs!

[Lulleh]

Oh, that's not good. +1 for reporting it though, hopefully they will fix it asap. As for the enchant, when do you think accurate weights will be done (if ever) (modern simulation tool). Would love to know, as I'd gladly spend w/e it would cost to swap over even if the difference is as small my current numbers (or even smaller). I suppose we could look at the absolute BiS, which mayhaps is;

Coif of Alleria
Hard Khorium Choker
T6
Cloak of Unforgivable Sin
Bladed Chaos Tunic
T6
Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets
T6
Leggings of the Immortal Night
T6
Band of Ruinous Delight
Stormrage Signet Ring
Blackened Naaru Sliver
Shard of Contempt

Warglaive of Azzinoth (Main)
Warglaive of Azzinoth (Off)
Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury

Oh, and it's Coif of Alleria, not Crown. :)

Edit: When comparing increases of upgrades between classes (Warr, Rog, Enh), looking at the sheet. Is Pawn valued the same between the classes? For example, MH Glaive is like 100 Pawn diff for a Rogue (up from 2nd BiS) where it's about 30 or so for a Warrior?

[SegaRally]

I've actually not done a full BIS yet for myself for Sunwell, I have to do armor ignore counting and stuff to figure that out. The realistic glove option will be Gloves of Immortal Dusk though, as they are effectively equal with Thalassian and will be easier to pick up early on due to crafted. As for the rest you don't want T6 shoulders, the 4set is not worth losing Demontooth Shoulders.

By the way I've adjusted Crit for T6 onwards as it should be in the pawn sheet, it should not have been using T5 numbers right through, it doesn't really change anything but I don't want to give the wrong impression about shoulder enchants as Scryer is only objectively better pre T6 where Crit gains are higher, and infact down at pre-raid and T4 levels Crit would be higher still and closer to 1/1 with Strength.


Edit : Pawn Value is not the same between sheets, on generic items the rogue/enhance are effectively 2.2x the numbers shown in the Warrior because they are based around 1 AP rather than 1STR/Agil. As for weapons they aren't remotely comparable in anyway, with the rogue all I've done is fudge some numbers together in the same way Elitist Jerks did to get a rough estimate of relative strength between the weapons, but it's not something you should use for comparison with any other classes.

If you want to be objective about it then Rogues get a much bigger gain from the offhand Warglaive, where it's not even anything special for us, it gets demolished by the Sunwell offhand fist, where as for Rogues nothing beats it.. The main hand on the other hand is about the same for both classes, if you combine the two then the set bonus is better for rogues at T6 level but at Sunwell levels it's about equal. That's because haste sees heavy scaling for Warriors in later gear (Sunwell) while it actually drops off fairly considerably for Rogues.

The argument for rogues is that they have no other weapon set that can compete with Warglaives, where as Warrior has other options that gets them close without as much compromise. Though however you look at it the Warglaives as a set are equal or slightly superior to Sunwell fists even on non demons, and against demon bosses the gain is huge... You definitely want a set of Glaives, even if the KJ fist + trash fist was competitive, you have to kill KJ to get it and that means progress is over.

[Lulleh]

Awesome. And yeah, ArP certainly has to be taken into consideration, I didn't go through all that as it's so far away when I made my list. Felt safe to go with what I did. Correct me if I am wrong but soft cap for ArP should be 1390 (Pre Executioner) and 550 once we get the enchant. That's with Faerie Fire, Sunder, Recklessness, Annihilator and also the Crystal Yield.

As for the Shoulers, are you sure the 5% dmg is less than the what, 26 Pawn rating lost ? I did break it all down and Shoulders was the least of a loss compared to the other pieces who had crazy amounts of difference. I suppose could ask, how much is the T6 4set worth but it's kind of dynamic depending on gear so I suppose you can't put an exact number.

Edit: I see. So in theory if a gain is 10 Pawn diff for a Warrior, it's equal to say 22 for a rogue then, for example. Nice for clarifying with the Glavies. What you say about the off-hand is pretty much what I concluded as well, until I saw the crazy difference on the mainhand, which had me drop the question here. So it probably makes sense to prio the OH for a Rogue (and then the MH to the same one to complete the set) where the MH could be up for debate and it's more of a player vs player scenario.

[Kiszh]

Glaives are always a matter of guild decision. There isn't a wrong choice on wether warriors or rogues should get the set. You should, however, always regard the set as one weapon (in my opinion), so that if the offhand drops first the guy who was prefered for the set first doesn't get screwed because he doesn't play the correct class.

I would definitely choose a player for the set, not depend it on which part drops first.

as for the t6 4p. it's 5% damage on an ability that does 15-17% of your total damage, it's hilariously bad. It's roughly worth 20 crit rating at those gear levels.

Edit: Clarification it's not BAD it's just a worse option in this context, and it's a bit sad that the value of the bonus is so low, that even though we only miss one item to complete it, it's not worth it. Though early on in SWP running the 4p might very well be worth it, since it is still one of the top setups, if not the second best one, and you might not have the other pair of shoulders available immediately.

[Lulleh]

Aye, was more thinking if it's a tie between an equally solid Rouge and a Warrior, and the OH drops for example. Thanks for the info on 4p.

Edit: Back to the Scryer Vs. Aldor enchants, with the updated SWP values, they both come out exactly the same; 22.725.
Question is if we will hit the Crit soft cap in full BiS SWP gear.
Interesting.

[SegaRally]

The crit cap is only really an issue in WOTLK due to the conversion rate with Crit, you already had 40% by the end of Naxx gearing in WOTLK and there were 3 tiers of gear after that, and 3 ilvl brackets in T9 and 10. As for the T6 - 4set bonus you can consider it to be worth about 15-17 pawn value, assuming you never delay Bloodthirst.

It's obviously not bad, but even Pauldrons of Berserking are at least a minor upgrade on paper, and the practical gains of the superior stats outweighs the set bonus in more realistic situations (vs on paper single target gains of the set bonus). If you account for multi target situations, higher priority execute phases and the synergy burst with cooldowns in important moments, the extra stat gains give a more definite upgrade than it might look on paper compared to T6.

I suspect a few of us will be using the T6 - 4set while we wait for drops or loot priority though, since it's probably not practical to give a DPS Warrior priority on Demontooth Shoulders over a Feral when the T6 shoulders are still a solid choice.

[Lulleh]

I see, nice. Now I just need to find another 900 Basilisk Eyes... ^^

What's the plans remaining with the Sheet? I see Enhance and Rogue is WIP. What about Arms Warrior?

[Selaya]

crit cap really isn't an issue in 3.x; by the point it really kicks in in force you're already looking at 100% hs uptime so all you'll be missing is a buncha oh crits and that doesnt really matter

[Lulleh]

How does the Soft cap (after 40.5%) work in TBC though? Pretty sure we're closing in on that number now even in T5, fully raid buffed etc.

[SegaRally]

How does the Soft cap (after 40.5%) work in TBC though? Pretty sure we're closing in on that number now even in T5, fully raid buffed etc.

Where did you get that number from? My characters crit soft cap with current hit rating is over 55%, and with expertise capped it would be above 60%. As for the plans with the sheet, honestly the whole thing is always a work in progress, the Enh/Combat ones just need socket bonuses calculated and then maybe I will look into adding Ret/BM/Arms. It's all down to finding reliable information when it comes to other specs, I dont have the time/patience to put hours of work into those ones though, it was easy with Rogue/Enha as Elitist Jerks had literally done almost all of the work for me and I could just insert it.

Arms has some annoyances with gearing, such as hit rating being the strongest stat up to cap and then being useless, which means the sheet either undervalues hit or overvalues it making some items look stronger/weaker than they are in a realistic set. Aside from Haste being weaker (due to Slam resetting autoswing) it should be very close to Fury in weights so I see it as a decent compromise to just use that.. Of course I could do better but if it's not for Fury I don't feel like putting in lots of time/effort.

I do have another sheet now with some other specs already in progress, a lot of people seem to be using my main sheet now so I'm working on it in a private sheet and then copying it over when it's done.

crit cap really isn't an issue in 3.x; by the point it really kicks in in force you're already looking at 100% hs uptime so all you'll be missing is a buncha oh crits and that doesnt really matter

I think you missed the context, I was trying to point out that the crit cap is only effectively even possible in WOTLK due to those factors. It also may be a minor thing but the Crit cap existing causes Haste to surpass Crit in stat weights.

[Selaya]

yes im aware that its just an anecdote basically

[Lulleh]

...

Hit Table:
Miss - 28% (9% for specials or when not dual wielding)
Dodge - 5.6% (see below)
Parry - 0%*
Glancing - 25% (25% vs a mob 3 levels above you, unchangeable)
Block - 0%*
Critical - Varies (this varies from player to player)
Crushing - 0% (players cannot Crush)
Normal Hit - [100% – {Miss + Dodge + Parry + Glancing + Block + Critical + Crushing}] (this is the leftover)

*Not actually 0%, but for all intents and purposes mobs cannot Parry nor Block attacks made from behind, which is where you should be dps'ing from.

That's the priority for attacks. Players cannot land Crushing Blows, mobs cannot land Glancing Blows. Mobs can't Parry or Block from behind, which is where your melee dps should be done. Dodge is assumed to be 5.6% for most bosses. Important to note that additional +hit does NOT increase your chance to land a Normal Hit, but rather DECREASES your chance to Miss.

In this fashion, under extreme circumstances you can become "crit capped" where additional Crit will not increase your chance to land a Critical Strike. This occurs if the total value of the options above Critical Strike on the attack table become sufficiently high as to reduce the possible Crit below it's normal value. Example:
Miss - 28%
Dodge - 5.6%
Parry - 0%
Glancing - 25%
Block - 0%
Critical - 50.5%
Crushing - 0%
Normal Hit - 0%
Under these circumstances, Crit will be capped at 40.5% even though you have a 50.5% listed chance. This is because the total cannot be more than 100%. 100% - (28% + 6.5% + 0% + 25% + 0%) = 41.4%. For most sensible levels of gear and under most circumstances, you will not reach the crit cap unless affected by something along the lines of Recklessness which would grossly inflate your Crit chance.

I read it at work, probably missed smth (bold text)

[SegaRally]

Well that's a character with 0 hit rating and 0% dodge reduction, Fury Warriors have 3% hit and 2% dodge reduction while naked so that's already + 5% vs those numbers without equipping any gear.

[Lulleh]

Yeah, noticed. :) Well, then that's out of the way. And nice with the sheet.