WotLK Unholy DK 100% armp ????

[haythamkalid10]

Hi ..

1-what better in dps Unholy with stuck strnge or unholy with 100% armp in singel target ??

2- what Ed2 bis tow-hand for unholy DK dps for who cant get shadowmore ??

3- bis items For unholy DK

sory for my English ty ...

[Whiteman]

1. full str and arp for single target is mostly the same it all depends on talents and rotations but for aoe full str is best
2. Gloren for full str build, crypt for full arp build
3. sts hc, dbw hc / dw hc, and wep

[haythamkalid10]

1. full str and arp for single target is mostly the same it all depends on talents and rotations but for aoe full str is best
2. Gloren for full str build, crypt for full arp build
3. sts hc, dbw hc / dw hc, and wep

can u link me the talnet strnge one and the armp one plz ???

[Erronius]

Full Arp Unholy is bad. The only things that benefit from ARP are blood strike, a portion of scourge strike, and auto attacks.

Things that benefit from strength: Disease damage, death coil, all weapon attacks, auto attacks, icy touch, gargoyle, your ghoul -everything. Literally everything benefits from str stacking.

Stacking Arp only gimps your dps because you're improving the dps of only a portion of your output instead of improving everything.

In bis gear you will have around 1100 arp anyway. No need to gem for it.

[Whiteman]

arp dk stats
melee>scourge strike>scourge strike (shadow part)>frost fever>death coil

in bis gear you are no where close to 1100 arp, in bis gear you have max 66% arp or less as udk that is going for str build

[reathien]

Armor Pen is good for Unholy, but Haste and Strength are better.
Scourge Strike, Auto Attack, and Blood Strike all benefit from ARP, but thats about 55%ish of your damage.
Strength improves everything, and haste increases Gargoyle damage.

Rule of thumb is Str in everything, with 10Str/10Haste oranges where you can get Strength socket bonuses.

[libraly]

Armor Pen is good for Unholy, but Haste and Strength are better.
Scourge Strike, Auto Attack, and Blood Strike all benefit from ARP, but thats about 55%ish of your damage.
Strength improves everything, and haste increases Gargoyle damage.

Rule of thumb is Str in everything, with 10Str/10Haste oranges where you can get Strength socket bonuses.

nah, haste not just increases Gargoyle damage. also lower unholy dk GCD, which can lower ur spell gcd : IT DC HOW.

[lovesnasal]

Fully gemmed in ARP and I do fine. I have a hybrid blood / frost spec tho, but it hits hard and the self heals are amazing. I do a lot better with it then I did with a straight Unh build.

[Gnimo]

As for ur question number 1:
If u know how to play, both Str and Arp gem builds will do almost exactly the same DPS on single target encounters.
The main diference btwn them, again on Single Target, is that with Arp gems u do most of the DMG, while with Str gems u and ur pets do the DMG together.
Now, we come to another part, multitarget DPS.
On 2+ targets, Strength Unholy DPS will **** on Armor Penetration build. No competition, hands down.
Another down side of Arp gems, part from lower AoE dmg potential, is switching targets and running from one to another.
In order to maximise DPS of Armor Pen gem build, u need to do a LOT of Scourge Strikes. Any kind of swap, where u have to do PS > IT again, or cast DnD will lower ur DPS. Strength gem build does not have this downside. Also, if u dont use 2 Death Runes u got from Reaping on Scourge Strike, u prety much wasted 3 talent points.

As for the question number 2:
Glorenzelg, full Strength gemming.
Going Armor Pen build without Shadowmourne is the dumbest idea ever.

As for question number 3:
BiS list depends on ur weapon mainly.
If u cant get Shadowmourne focus on getting as many Strength items as posible with Crit stat in them. WFS and DV might be BiS trinkets in this case...

Overall conclusion:
Unholy Arp DK is not natural. It focuses too much on single target DPS. If u want single target DPS go Frost.
Unholy DK is suposed to be the best multitarget constant DMG class/spec. Play it as it was suposed to be played, with Strength Gems.

[Lynea]

Unholy Arp DK is not natural. It focuses too much on single target DPS. If u want single target DPS go Frost.

This argument only applies from an elitist POV. It's a half-assed elitist argument, too. From an actual elitist POV, if you want max single target DPS, then you shouldn't be rolling a DK in the first place.

If someone wants to play an ARP Unholy DK for single target DPS, then let them. You can advise them that it is not optimal, but that is all you can do. If someone wants to mess around with a spec and try out their own build for fun, then that is their prerogative.

Unholy DK is suposed to be the best multitarget constant DMG class/spec. Play it as it was suposed to be played, with Strength Gems.

False. Blizzard doesn't design classes and specs in the fashion of "this will be the best at X". Blizzard's design works like this: "We want this spec to do X, Y and Z. Let's see what people come up with. We can nerf & buff later if something proves to be an outlier." Blizzard designs around what they think is fun and cool. They always have. They don't redesign classes and specs each expansion, or give out new abilities and whatnot each expansion, just for the sake of "Oh we want this spec to be better than that other spec over there". This flies right in the face of what you're trying to say here. They do have a general design intent, but they have always intentionally left creative spaces for the players to mess around, allow players and class abilities the possibility to shine. This is literally the entire point behind the talent point system and the complexity of gear customization. This hasn't always worked in their favor, but it usually does work out well for the game. But, it would seem, that you and Blizzard see the game in two very different ways. I suppose that doesn't matter too much, though, as the game is Blizzard's, not yours.

TLDR; You can give advice, but you don't make the rules.

[Gnimo]

First of all, I dont expect everyone to blindly follow the things i say. I dont have the need to say: "I advise u to do this or that", il simply say it. Do with it what u want.

Second, i tested both specs recently and these are the results. Rotation is basicly almost the same tbh, and a bit dull if u ask me in both cases, so if u want to have fun with Arp gems, go try out Frost doin a proper rotation.

Third, Unholy DK is the class u go to when u want HUGE AoE dmg. It has both insane amount of personal DMG and a debuff that will buff everyone else aswell. Period.

Forth, i dont see Arcane Mages going spirit or crit instead of Haste, nor i see any of them beeing more usefull than Fire on fights like Lich King. I also dont see any Survival or BM Hunter in end game PvE, so even if Blizzard didnt say: "use this spec here, use this gemming here", its on the players to test them all and not use the bad ones.
U can use any, but i dont see how doin **** dps and getting carried is fun.

Fifth, most of newcomers and non expirienced Unholy DKs that see: "Arp is fine, and fun, and uniqorns" will come to conclusion that it might be better for them.
It wont.
Unholy DK is easy to play spec that has no "highly punishable on **** ups" rotation like Frost does. Going Arp gems u remove that and make rotation a bit more demanding (still not even close to Frost DK) but u gain nothing from it.

I dont consider myself any kind of elitist jerk.
I know this class from every angle and i know how and what can both help and **** up new players. If u want to go Armor Penetration and waste **** ton of gold on gems to do less DPS be my guest. Some of the newcomers might not have the gold to gem back.

On top of that, when if comes to farming Dungeons and doin pugs, as a reletavly new player: Strength UDK > big pile of **** > Armor Penetration Unholy DK.

Edit:
Frost DK DPS is one of the PERFECT classes/specs when it comes to maximising single target DPS. On top of its insane DMG (if u know how to play it) it brings one of the best Melee DPS buffs to the raid, aka 20% melee haste with a 100 yards range.
So as u like to say it: "False."

P.S. dont even try to get Enha Shaman here. Its single target DPS is pure crap, it proly wont waste 2 talents for extra 4%, its 40 yard totem dependant.

[Erronius]

Just for fun I repurposed my blood dps gear (6.8k with SM and 100% arp) and ran through ICC 25n/HC the other day as 100% ArP Unholy spec.. Basically dps is good on bosses, but not so good on aoes. Don't get me wrong, it's unholy with SM so aoe dps is still okay... but that's all it is: okay.

I have some screenshots from a few of the fights where I didn't play like a potato:

https://ibb.co/noyFMk BPC

https://ibb.co/f0nWu5 PP

https://ibb.co/gGeuE5 DBS

https://ibb.co/kLnWu5 Lady

I mean, if you have a SM and you want to share gear with frost like I do... arp gemming is best for frost, and dps is okay for arp unholy... but that's basically the only scenario I would recommend gemming arp as unholy.

Gemming STR gives you a more consistent use for your spec... I mean, unholy arp is complete garbage for deathwhisper aoes, VDW aoes, Heroic PP, bone spike aoes... pretty much anything regarding aoes or switching targets constantly in comparison to str gemming.

The biggest thing here is that arp unholy is basically not better than str unholy single-target, but str unholy is much better at aoes.

(for those wondering about the missing fights: Healers let me die while spiked on Marrow, I facetanked at least 1 malleable on HC fester, healers let me die to infection on Rotface, combat bug on Sindy + Combat log bug on LK) Sadface.

[lovesnasal]

put it this way - i have yet to lose to an smourne unh dk in my spec.

[Gnimo]

That kind of argument is simply put, a bad one.
I could say the same thing, not just for Unholy DK, but for most Melee classes in general.
What wins fights when 2 equaly class skilled players meet is movement and how they prepare for phases and target swaps (part from RNG). Sadly there are not many fights where this matters...
On top of everything, to be a great Strength UDK u need to know when and how to use DnD. Sadly, most of the DKs out there dont.

Anyway, if u didnt lose as Armor Pem gemmed Unholy DK vs a Strength one on fight such as PP and/or Lich King, u simply never encountered a good DK.
There is no way in hell, that armor penetration gemmed DK will EVER win against a strength gemmed DK on fights such as PP and Lich King 25m HC.

Thats a fact.
And u cant do anything about it.

U have to AoE, u have to move, u have to switch targets. Every single one of those things favors Strength gems, talents and playstyle over Armor Penetration one.

If u like to afk on a dummy or do only bosses like DBS, Festergut, Rotface, feel free to go Armor Pen gems (even tho DPS will be more or less the same) if it makes u feel special.



Edit:
For everyone that does not belive me, here is how u can test it urself (will cost u some gold but that can be a good thing, since next time u might just listen to someone who actualy did both alrdy):

Get ur head out of ur *** and be objective once in ur life. (Most important part!)

Go in Ironforge or Silvermoon infront of a dummy.

DO NOT AOE! Single target DMG only. No food, no pots, nothing exept Horn of Winter.

Start DPSing the dummy. DPS for 3mins (easy way to do it is to just stop right when ur Gargoyle is off cooldown again).

Wright down the overall DMG u did on that run somewhere. Check recount. Notice ur DMG, and dmg that ur pets did.

Do the DPS run with the same spec, gear, gemming, rotation 5 times total (str gems).

Do the DPS run with another spec, gear, gemming, rotation 5 times total (arp gems).

Always check the recount in case some bad RNG happened like 30% Glancing on Melee, or what not... repeat the run if something goes teribly wrong.

Things u will notice after the tests:

Str UDK:
Lower Personal DMG, higher Pet DMG, ~1.300k total dmg done.
Melee dmg more or less the same.
Diseases doin insane amount of DMG.
Lower SS dmg.
Higher DC dmg.

Arp UDK:
Higher Personal DMG, lower Pet DMG, ~1.300k total dmg done.
Melee dmg more or less the same.
Diseases doin low amount of DMG.
Lower DC dmg.
Higher SS dmg.

Conclusion: DMG is the same. Having in mind that when DPSing the dummy, spec with more Arp will do more DMG (this is overall for all classes). On top of that, considering that even with that advantage, its beeing a strict single target DPS run, u can say that Arp gems are not worth cos u will get demolished on any +2 target fight.

[Erronius]

More or less, listen to Gnimo.