Agreed. I would only run gruul in a pug for DST roll, to avoid loot council because of how sought after and rare it is. Gets a little ridiculous honestly.This is clearly not the only incentive to do this raid since you can find healers and casters willing to do it.
People do not stop playing because they have nothing to do after buying their gear (you dont play content to get gear, you get gear to play content), they leave because its a private server and thats what people do on private servers, they just one day vanish into thin air. Ask any guild that has cleared SSC on the server, how many player from their first 25man are still raiding. Number is most likely not be higher than 10 (or even less).
At the moment its not a real issue because they are as many guild disbanding due to poor management (switch to 25man, having everyone progress on their attunements) than player leaving progressing guilds, so these guilds have raid ready players to chose from. But once you'll hit T6, this pool of player you can chose from will become smaller and smaller, because guilds that have been through T5 will likely stick around. So now you have players leaving but you cant replace them with other geared players, so you get new players. But these new player have crap gear so you have to gear them. This where the store comes in handy and actually IS healthy for the server : its a catchup mechanic. Because what do you think happens when you have to keep going back to old content to gear new players ? Your current roster leave, that's what happens.
Now to get on DST on the DST topic, its not as much that I want it to be on the store, I just feel it needs to be there if healer / tank / caster also have all their gear available. Eye of Quagmire is as sought, rare and BiS as DST, but its on a daily 5 man reset and in the store, whereas DST is on a weekly reset for 25 people, therefore it jusy feels like its not as rare/sought. I just want all class to be equals, not having DST is just hurting melee even more on an expansion that is already caster friendly.
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Member
Agreed. I would only run gruul in a pug for DST roll, to avoid loot council because of how sought after and rare it is. Gets a little ridiculous honestly.
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Member
The problem as I'm seeing it right now, my personal feelings about the store aside, is that without DST we're effectively farming t4 content for the sake of 20% of the raid. A number that grows smaller the more raiders that obtain the trinket. Had other BiS drops been left out of the store, it would've been worth running it, but at this point guilds just don't feel it's worth their time farming content that they practically don't need for the sake of a few people.
So what we end up with is either 20% of the guild annoying the other 80% or 80% of the guild frustrating 20% of the guild. While there (perhaps) is a clear majority in favor of skipping Gruuls the melee group is often big enough that it's not worth it to frustrate them. So in the end you sit in a situation where a lot of people are ending up unhappy, because they either have to farm useless content or because raids where they need loot is being dropped from the rotation.
At the moment no one wins. In hindsight maybe you should have been more restrictive with what was released in the store to begin with, but that is too late. So either DST needs to be put on the store or we will have a lot more friction in guilds going onwards. As T5 gets farmed more and more the reason to return to Gruuls for a lot more guilds simply diminishes.
I, however, also see that it's not an easy choice, as the trinket is so good that it does impact progress having most if not all melee with the trinket. I'm probaly not getting anywhere here, but my honest opinion is that removing the incentive for everyone but melee + hunters to do Gruul was a grave mistake.
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The Wise
Funny thing is Maggy's eye can also be counted as well in this,since it has infinite procc uptime bascially when resisted.Casters got bis ,while melee got "f" in "a".
But who cares,move on ,doubt that some dps difference has impact on any serious raiders.Not likely that some dps increase will make any difference whatsover.
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Member
As a tank, I'm disappointed our most rare items are so easily available on the store. I was working on the DMF trinket prior to store release. Every card was super expensive to get, so it was cheaper to just sell gold on the site and buy it. It is clear now that part of your normal gear progression is to use the store. Aldori Legacy Defender for example also available for equiv 1.5k gold on the store (23 coins). This removes any excitement for tanks to do Gruuls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06rYTdIwX8I 2.0
Kungen arguably one of the most geared tanks at the time (Vashj T5 helm at the time of this recording) doing Gruul's with his Nightbane shield which is far, far worse than the Aldori Legacy Defender yet the 2nd best. The next upgrade for shields is Mount Hyjal, nothing in T5. I myself struggled to get this shield on retail (never got it) and took forever on other private servers. So Warmane literally killed one of the rarest item in T5 for tanks by adding it to the store too quickly and at a price too cheap.
DST should be added frankly at a cheap price. There is no incentive for the rest of our raid to go Gruul's because we got our stuff from the store for a dirt cheap gold equiv price. This seems an inconsistent decision from Warmane which is unfair to physical dmg classes and the other raiders forcing us to continue doing it for 1 item. If it was equal for other roles that's fine, but it is not.
With the store items being so accessible, the only reason to do Mag and Gruul for a T5 progressed guild should be for attunements only.Edited: September 16, 2017
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Member
Melee didn't get taken in the race because it was SSC, both Leo and Vashj have a real advantage towards ranged. Vashj is also extra punishing to melee on this server due to her "cannot be moved" bug that hasn't been fixed. If you decide to take melee you need to build a full group setup, since rogues/warriors cannot do dps properly without it, if you took a rogue or dps warrior without a supporting group they would do literally no dps, where as ranged don't have that issue and all do well even without full buff setups.
Your post isn't a good argument because it ignores the fact that DST has T6 level item budget despite only being T4 ilvl, it's a bigger upgrade than any item in T5 when using relative comparisons. The shield from Gruul isn't over budget, it isn't overpowered at the relevant ilvl, there just aren't any T5 level shields to compare it with aside from S2 Gladiator (which has more armor/block as per higher ilvl).DST should be added frankly at a cheap price. There is no incentive for the rest of our raid to go Gruul's because we got our stuff from the store for a dirt cheap gold equiv price. This seems an inconsistent decision from Warmane which is unfair to physical dmg classes and the other raiders forcing us to continue doing it for 1 item. If it was equal for other roles that's fine, but it is not.Edited: September 16, 2017
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Member
I agree DST is overpowered, stupidly so. The shield is still bis till T6 without a T5 drop, and a huuuge upgrade from the Kara/badge stuff. So it was completely unnecessary to make our most demanded item worth 1500g in coins (23). Literally the week it went up out both myself and our 2nd tank had it for next ssc. Shocking decision. I thought they would keep rare items off the store or make them priced reasonably high? What happened to that? Anyway I wanted DST cheap because they made rest of the rare items cheap so it's consistent for all roles.
Edited: September 16, 2017
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Member
They will MAYBE release it in a couple of months until then you'll just have to be lucky and get it the old-fashioned way. Personally, I got it three weeks after hitting 70 xd
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Member
It's not the "old-fashioned way" if Gruul drops half the non-set loot he did on retail from launch patch.
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Member
WHy my post get deleted ? and his too ? He posted proves, that Gruul dropped 2 tokens and 2 epics on retail and it get deleted .. it seems you dont want it blizzlike, dont you ?
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Field Medic Moderator
Because this isn't a bug report thread. Stay on the topic please.
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Member
Ok thank you for response :) I hope it get fixed as soon as possible and make this trinket "not neccesary in shop". :)
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Member
Ive done well over 40 gruul runs across multiple characters on this server and still have not seen it. Surprisingly, I've seen the shuriken for the first time this week. While it saddens me not to have the item, I don't think it is a necessity, as you can still clear the current tier without "OP GEAR". Our main tank in our KT kill didn't have a single piece of t5 as a warrior and we still downed him. People just need to actually put some effort into playing.
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Member
Been running since release every week never saw it once, just release it already.
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Member
Saw it 2 times since release. It just matter of luck. Im preety sure they will release it when they do hyjal/bt or even after it.
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Member
Well, just going with this thread I think it's safe to say/assume that Warglaives won't be able to be bought straight away either. Especially if a mere trinket can't be bought!
All my friends I try to get to play here are always using the "Hurrrr everyone will just buy glaives" as their excuse not to play.
Edit: Forgot to add I pre-ordered my iPhone X two days ago :o
