Why You Should Play MoP

[romz]

The only reason I don't play on MoP (in terms of PvP) is because, I'm more into WoD for PvP. (Where the most I ever done was Random Battlegrounds which was fun enough)

For PvE content I never been too interested in it, I mean I love the lore going through it for the first time. That...and the sheer amount of dailies is a bit too much for me.

I love pandas and all only for their silliness they add, but sadly the expansion isn't what I'm looking for :)

[Mercy]

How can you play an expansion where literally first 4 of 7 quests are bugged? Once you get to panda land you wont be able to get a weapon as the quest is bugged, followed up with another 3 quests(bombing, smoke and i destroying barriers quests), wanted to re visit panda land as i actually fun for me on retail, but this has just destroyed my will to play.

Hyjal - only like lets say 7 working quests?

If you are new to that server, go to Vashj'ir(or get to 81-82 in icecrown) then go to deepholm(it has decent enough amount of quests working and should get you to atleast 84 and few bars). Twilight Highlands only 1 of starting few quests is working, instantly go and speak with an assasin. You can forget about any cata dungs, as non of them work.

I know many people dont care about "low level" stuff, if you are one of them,you should be fine, but if you're like me who cares about it, you wont have fun on it.

If I were to play on the Mop realm, it wouldn't be in order to do the Cata content anyways. I hate the Cata content. So long as I would be able to get past it, I could not care less.

[-Notorious-]

WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST PANDAS?????

I for one love the stuff the Pandas say. They don't bother me much at all. Probably why I like this expansion while some others don't? It's not like the lore in MoP was very different from the over-arching lore in WoW (Old Gods, Titans, etc.)

Destro Locks one-shotting you with Chaos Bolts, it really is a fine expansion. I'd personally rate amongst my favorite expansions.

Destro warlocks suck a whole lot. A well played Affliction warlock is what people should be truly terrified of...

Hey there, i want to collect more points but actually playing tbc and woltk seems abit slow to collect achivements points ... so is mop faster once i have a 90char can i go for 2-3k achievements easily?

I'm not a 100% sure if it would be faster to level to 90 and then collect points, however if you do have a 90 with maxed out flying, then doing Explorer is FAR easier on MoP than it is on Wotlk. You can fly in Azeroth on MoP, so just get an addon that points you where to go to get the credit for explorer for each zone, and fly to it. If you do choose to level a character solely to farm achievement points, I recommend a fast levelling class (hunters are, as always, great), and farming gold to do explorer. Should be able to get 1k achievement points in a week easily.

The only reason I don't play on MoP (in terms of PvP) is because, I'm more into WoD for PvP. (Where the most I ever done was Random Battlegrounds which was fun enough)

For PvE content I never been too interested in it, I mean I love the lore going through it for the first time. That...and the sheer amount of dailies is a bit too much for me.

I love pandas and all only for their silliness they add, but sadly the expansion isn't what I'm looking for :)

I'm genuinely surprised to hear this. When Legion launched, many retail gladiators including Weafy, Sin, Praii, and MANY others came to MoP servers because of how much they loved S15. Even now we have retail players that came in the last 3-4 months and what they have all told me is that they came because of their love of S15. Ironically enough, WoD was pretty universally hated for its arenas, overshadowed only by the hate Legion got.

I don't know the PvE scene nor the dailies, but arenas in MoP is the most fun I've had ever doing arenas (and yes, I've done them quite extensively on all the expansions except Legion).

Honestly, when it comes to PvP I don't know how anyone can take Wotlk seriously for PvP anymore (outside of Blackrock, which is definitely equal, if not better than Frostwolf). Icecrown/Lordaeron is a competition of who can raid or donate for their gear, while arena teams result in a terrible logistics competition of who can manage to gather their teammates on time more often. On top of that, Random BGs are run over by BiS geared characters deleting lowbies trying to gear up, because they have nothing better to do (like Rated BGs).

[DamnOriginal]

2. MoP PvP is excellent. Now this is just an opinion, but I enjoy the way most classes play out in MoP. Every class has a myriad of options on what they can do as it was the expansion with the highest number of abilities in the game. Furthermore, PvE gear is virtually useless in instanced PvP. The only gear that any serious PvP'er will use is Prideful gear (ilvl 550), because any item that is not Prideful will be downscaled to ilvl 540. This means no Shadowmournes, no Gurthalaks, no Vial of the Shadows, none of that garbage. It is your skill vs. the enemies skill and whether you raid for your gear does not matter.

This is an impossible sell. MoP was the expansion where the amount of CC bloat reached critical mass, turning PvP into a mindless CC spamfest where timing was irrelevant because players simply had too much CC they could mask their mistakes with. You spent less time playing your character in PvP than in any other expansion beforehand.

6. Talents. I'm sure this will trigger a lot of people, since the talent tree is one of the things people hated the most about MoP. However I feel the talents in MoP were a step in the right direction. Before MoP, every experienced WoW player knew the exact build they would need to play optimally. This was specially true in PvP since you couldn't swap talents based on the team you were playing against. As a result, we had cookie-cutter builds that we would all find online in some guide, and then use it for the rest of our gaming life. In MoP however, if you do not swap talents based on the team you are against, you may as well be stuck at 1500 mmr.

There's a reason people hated that talent system and that's because it neutered character progression and the player's ability to make silly specs for no gain. The cookie cutter talent builds remained where one talent in a row was the clear way to go and on the rare occasion that swapping to a different talent improved your performance, everyone and their mother already knew that and would do it, introducing unnecessary tediousness. It's true that it wasn't as bad as the needlessly restrictive Cataclysm talent system but it wasn't much better and it utterly failed to achieve its goal either way.

[-Notorious-]

This is an impossible sell. MoP was the expansion where the amount of CC bloat reached critical mass, turning PvP into a mindless CC spamfest where timing was irrelevant because players simply had too much CC they could mask their mistakes with. You spent less time playing your character in PvP than in any other expansion beforehand.

On the contrary, I find it far easier to land kills in WotLK without any CC chain whatsoever, since both teams are high on damage and low on resilience. On MoP you do not land a kill unless you can do a massive CC chain (upwards of 10 seconds). Sure, it sucks when you get CC chained, but players are forced to learn what LoS is and how it works in order to avoid being chained for so long. On WotLK you can completely mess up your CC chain, but you will still land a kill if you manage to get lucky with some crits.

There's a reason people hated that talent system and that's because it neutered character progression and the player's ability to make silly specs for no gain. The cookie cutter talent builds remained where one talent in a row was the clear way to go and on the rare occasion that swapping to a different talent improved your performance, everyone and their mother already knew that and would do it, introducing unnecessary tediousness. It's true that it wasn't as bad as the needlessly restrictive Cataclysm talent system but it wasn't much better and it utterly failed to achieve its goal either way.

I honestly don't understand this response. As a raid leader, I would never take anyone who was "making silly specs for no gain". I certainly wouldn't do arenas with them, because the result would be exactly what you expect.

It's absolutely also not true that every row has one talent that stands out. Some rows do, most don't. For a Balance druid for example, the only sure choice you would make is Cenarion Ward. Every other talent row is up for debate based on the composition you play and the composition you play against. Even the choice of glyph is critical because if you don't play with Guided Stars for example when a mage is on your team, your team cannot land any polymorphs.

Regardless even if one talent at minimum is up for change, that is still an improvement over NO talent being up for change, which is the case in all pre-MoP expansions. In terms of character progression, I suppose that is a very good point. There definitely was a rewarding feeling to getting a talent every single level.

[DamnOriginal]

On the contrary, I find it far easier to land kills in WotLK without any CC chain whatsoever, since both teams are high on damage and low on resilience. On MoP you do not land a kill unless you can do a massive CC chain (upwards of 10 seconds). Sure, it sucks when you get CC chained, but players are forced to learn what LoS is and how it works in order to avoid being chained for so long. On WotLK you can completely mess up your CC chain, but you will still land a kill if you manage to get lucky with some crits.

Wotlk PvP is fast paced and promotes fast reactions, players are fragile and split second decisions decide if they live or die. Offensive cooldowns can help you score a kill but aren't necessary, defensive cooldowns can help you stay alive but are limited. CC is an important tool in scoring kills and avoiding it is important for staying alive.

2 expansions later we arrive at MoP, player health pools are bloated, promoting a much slower gameplay. Offensive cooldowns are absolutely necessary to have any chance of scoring a kill, defensive cooldowns are abundant and give you plenty of second chances. CC is important for scoring kills but now you have 2 times as much and unless the enemy team has popped cds, avoiding it isn't anywhere near as important.

Which one of these sounds like it rewards players who are actually good at PvP?

I honestly don't understand this response. As a raid leader, I would never take anyone who was "making silly specs for no gain". I certainly wouldn't do arenas with them, because the result would be exactly what you expect.

It's absolutely also not true that every row has one talent that stands out. Some rows do, most don't. For a Balance druid for example, the only sure choice you would make is Cenarion Ward. Every other talent row is up for debate based on the composition you play and the composition you play against. Even the choice of glyph is critical because if you don't play with Guided Stars for example when a mage is on your team, your team cannot land any polymorphs.

Regardless even if one talent at minimum is up for change, that is still an improvement over NO talent being up for change, which is the case in all pre-MoP expansions. In terms of character progression, I suppose that is a very good point. There definitely was a rewarding feeling to getting a talent every single level.

You don't make silly specs to be competitive in raids and PvP, you make them to have fun and mess around, something completely gone in MoP. You can't play a blood DK with a pet in MoP, you can't play a disc/holy hybrid, you can't play Molten Core destruction warlock or go 50/50 in any specs. The Wotlk talent system treats you like a functioning human being, it presents you with all the talents, where there's clearly an optimal way to go, but doesn't prevent you from doing your own thing, even if it would be suboptimal. By contrast, the Cataclysm and MoP systems assume you're an absolute mongoloid who would never figure anything out on your own, they allow you to make a "choice" but only from these few things they wrapped in bubblewrap to prevent you from hurting your little potato self too hard. It ultimately comes down to the fact that they took away the choice to be bad and gave nothing in return. It's still the same boring crap with the same boring optimal way to play but now you can't even try to be creative anymore, and on top of that getting to that boring crap is now slower as well.

[pagirinis]

The Wotlk talent system treats you like a functioning human being, it presents you with all the talents, where there's clearly an optimal way to go, but doesn't prevent you from doing your own thing, even if it would be suboptimal. .

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't most talents "Increase crit rate by 3%"? And only a few talents that defined the playstyle? Because that's pretty much the same in MoP.

[romz]

I'm genuinely surprised to hear this. When Legion launched, many retail gladiators including Weafy, Sin, Praii, and MANY others came to MoP servers because of how much they loved S15. Even now we have retail players that came in the last 3-4 months and what they have all told me is that they came because of their love of S15. Ironically enough, WoD was pretty universally hated for its arenas, overshadowed only by the hate Legion got.

I don't know the PvE scene nor the dailies, but arenas in MoP is the most fun I've had ever doing arenas (and yes, I've done them quite extensively on all the expansions except Legion).

Honestly, when it comes to PvP I don't know how anyone can take Wotlk seriously for PvP anymore (outside of Blackrock, which is definitely equal, if not better than Frostwolf). Icecrown/Lordaeron is a competition of who can raid or donate for their gear, while arena teams result in a terrible logistics competition of who can manage to gather their teammates on time more often. On top of that, Random BGs are run over by BiS geared characters deleting lowbies trying to gear up, because they have nothing better to do (like Rated BGs).

Well back during MoP, retail wise that is, my account was Wrath Level (before they upgraded everyone to cataclysm) and I had a twink hunter 1 shotting nearly every mob on heroic and nearly 4 shot bosses. I only went into 1 BG at the time cause I was focusing more on dungeons the game already had started alliance was losing, and I popped in started to 2 shot people with just my auto attack and with only about 30 seconds left I managed to get 4 kills (was a noob hunter so me being mobile was pretty bad) But didn't experience MoP Content.

Then during WoD 6.1 I came back to retail (probably a few weeks before 6.2) and I experienced the MoP Content in leveling which was alright, I enjoyed quite a bit of it. Then I hit 90 and went straight to WoD and I loved the opening quests for it. Yeah I get it garrisons sucked, but during WoD was when I started to do PvP since I couldn't do dungeons (my PC being weak and pvping with 15-18 fps is actually not as bad as you'd think) I remember defending stables as my Hunter killing rogues who try to cap, having Arcturis also mess them up. Then I went MM with Lonewolf and had a lot of fun with that. I remember on my paladin and I was in Battle of Gilneas defending Lighthouse I think it was called, and I was 1v3 against a warrior/paladin and a disc priest. With little time left they couldn't kill me as I was a prot paladin and my heals were enough to keep me alive without using stuff like Word of Glory or Flash of Light essentially winning the game as I kept consecration on the flag to prevent capture. Then there was Eye of the Storm I believe where I would be on my Prot Paladin or Hunter and I would run flag to one of our bases essentially carrying the team objectively. Yeah I can somewhat do these things in MoP but it wouldn't be the same for me. I ended up gearing a Hunter/Prot Paladin/Warlock/Warrior/Rogue/Druid through PvP Honor Gear which was just enough for me to solo Fire Lands or any Cata Raid or lower.

And to be fair, it was a lot easier to gear into Honor Gear in WoD with x2 Honor weeks. While conquest gear and honor gear wasn't that much different in terms of stats I mean not like if you were in honor gear you'd be slaughtered compared to someone in conquest gear like it is in previous expansions.

Then when I tried out PvP here in Warmane, I just facepalm at the fact that every random BG I was ever in, my team gets steamrolled or ignores the objectives in BGs. I been in a lot of BGs during WoD and I seen retail players play better than the pvpers on here (which is saying a lot). Yeah I get it, random battlegrounds don't matter as much as rated, but come on, at least try to work as a team. I mean I seen players in Battle for Gilneas or even Arathi Basin make call outs where the main pvp force goes to confront the opposite team. Here, no one chats in BGs and if they do they are flaming each other, or speaking some other language. Not a great experience.

[Obnoxious]

personally i dislike them do to the fact that they played little to no role in the wc game lore. (my only knowledge of lore comes from the wc games). they had 1 hidden mission in warcraft 3, that as it. would of rather seen naga or something playable. least they played a role in helpin the blood elves escape and find thier way to illidan.

Like if Plagiarizzard could pass on the Kung Fu Panda 1 and 2 hype.

[Mercy]

Like if Plagiarizzard could pass on the Kung Fu Panda 1 and 2 hype.

I guess it's a good thing that the "Kung Fu" Pandaren Brewmaster was a thing a full 7-8 years before Kung Fu Panda appeared in theaters.

[Obnoxious]

I guess it's a good thing that the "Kung Fu" Pandaren Brewmaster was a thing a full 7-8 years before Kung Fu Panda appeared in theaters.

You mean a hidden cameo, which Plagiarizzard never seemed to bring back again, until there was outside hype to cash in.

[-Notorious-]

Wotlk PvP is fast paced and promotes fast reactions, players are fragile and split second decisions decide if they live or die. Offensive cooldowns can help you score a kill but aren't necessary, defensive cooldowns can help you stay alive but are limited. CC is an important tool in scoring kills and avoiding it is important for staying alive.

2 expansions later we arrive at MoP, player health pools are bloated, promoting a much slower gameplay. Offensive cooldowns are absolutely necessary to have any chance of scoring a kill, defensive cooldowns are abundant and give you plenty of second chances. CC is important for scoring kills but now you have 2 times as much and unless the enemy team has popped cds, avoiding it isn't anywhere near as important.

Which one of these sounds like it rewards players who are actually good at PvP?

Do you really feel that an expansion where you don't need to CC, time your CD's with teammates, and are defenseless to a stun is rewarding for good plays? Fast reactions are rewarded in every game, that's not at all specific to WotLK, and there are many classes in MoP (Fire/Arcane mage) that require fast reflexes to even do any damage at all. The game overall is definitely slower, but I for one enjoy that far more, as I get to plan out my method of scoring a kill, whereas when I arena'd extensively on WotLK, I didn't need to think at all, I just had to pump out constant damage.

By the way, from what I have seen and am told, Legion is also very similar to WotLK in its bursty style. Given just how many players left Legion for MoP private servers is a good indication of which expansion most players preferred (you can see plenty of discussion on this in arenajunkies, but I won't be linking any outside threads).

You don't make silly specs to be competitive in raids and PvP, you make them to have fun and mess around, something completely gone in MoP. You can't play a blood DK with a pet in MoP, you can't play a disc/holy hybrid, you can't play Molten Core destruction warlock or go 50/50 in any specs. The Wotlk talent system treats you like a functioning human being, it presents you with all the talents, where there's clearly an optimal way to go, but doesn't prevent you from doing your own thing, even if it would be suboptimal. By contrast, the Cataclysm and MoP systems assume you're an absolute mongoloid who would never figure anything out on your own, they allow you to make a "choice" but only from these few things they wrapped in bubblewrap to prevent you from hurting your little potato self too hard. It ultimately comes down to the fact that they took away the choice to be bad and gave nothing in return. It's still the same boring crap with the same boring optimal way to play but now you can't even try to be creative anymore, and on top of that getting to that boring crap is now slower as well.

Yes, there was definitely a lot of fun to be had in the numerous talents that gave 3% hit or 6 yard range. Totally game changing talents, those. Like I said, there was definitely a more RPG element in giving players 1 talent point per level, but I don't think PvP'ers care much about the RPG element of the game to begin with. Most want instant max levels with instant proffessions and unlimited gold (see Blackrock).

I think at best, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't know what your experience is playing on MoP, but if you haven't tried the expansion (and specially 3v3, which is insanely fun on MoP), then I say give it a try. If it turns out to be as bad as you think, you can just go back to Icecrown or Blackrock :P

[DamnOriginal]

Do you really feel that an expansion where you don't need to CC, time your CD's with teammates, and are defenseless to a stun is rewarding for good plays? Fast reactions are rewarded in every game, that's not at all specific to WotLK, and there are many classes in MoP (Fire/Arcane mage) that require fast reflexes to even do any damage at all. The game overall is definitely slower, but I for one enjoy that far more, as I get to plan out my method of scoring a kill, whereas when I arena'd extensively on WotLK, I didn't need to think at all, I just had to pump out constant damage.

Claiming that you don't need to use CC in Wotlk or time anything or that you're somehow defenseless serves no purpose but letting people know you don't know what you're talking about. The problem with MoP PvP stems from the fact that less equals more. More CC, more offensive cds, more defensive cds, more, more, more. When there's that much bloat in the game, proper usage of each one of those elements becomes far less impactful. When you're a walking bag of cooldowns that can't even scratch his anus without popping a cd, your games are less about fast reactions and more about staring at your cds and hoping they pop up before the enemy ones do so you can maybe have the audacity to try killing something

Yes, there was definitely a lot of fun to be had in the numerous talents that gav 3% hit or 6 yard range. Totally game changing talents, those. Like I said, there was definitely a more RPG element in giving players 1 talent point per level, but I don't think PvP'ers care much about the RPG element of the game to begin with. Most want instant max levels with instant proffessions and unlimited gold (see Blackrock).

Tweaking arbitrary numbers is a big part of this game, If you can't find fun in that then I have to wonder why you're even playing. This is why I wish Wotlk had a reforging system. There's something inherently satisfying in being presented a toy construction set clearly meant to build a car but ending up as a metal phallus with car wheels for balls instead.

[Mercy]

You mean a hidden cameo, which Plagiarizzard never seemed to bring back again, until there was outside hype to cash in.

Hidden? There were multiple missions that used such a character as a core character, and it is a hero unit in the multiplayer portion of the game. Even the lore available for the Pandaren available in Warcraft 3 will tell you that their race and homeland is hidden away in a remote location. Unlike much of what occurred in the game when new races were introduced into WoW in the past, the MoP expansion didn't pull off any retcons. Even our glorious space goats held less of a role in the relevant parts of WC3 (and by that, I mean NONE) and they've been retconned TWICE since!

Yes, there was definitely a lot of fun to be had in the numerous talents that gave 3% hit or 6 yard range. Totally game changing talents, those. Like I said, there was definitely a more RPG element in giving players 1 talent point per level, but I don't think PvP'ers care much about the RPG element of the game to begin with. Most want instant max levels with instant proffessions and unlimited gold (see Blackrock).

I have to ask. Do you enjoy earning gear for your character at all? If yes, you realize it's the same concept don't you? Stat increases, character progression, etc. If no, then why do you still play this game?

[Obnoxious]

Hidden? There were multiple missions that used such a character as a core character, and it is a hero unit in the multiplayer portion of the game. Even the lore available for the Pandaren available in Warcraft 3 will tell you that their race and homeland is hidden away in a remote location. Unlike much of what occurred in the game when new races were introduced into WoW in the past, the MoP expansion didn't pull off any retcons. Even our glorious space goats held less of a role in the relevant parts of WC3 (and by that, I mean NONE) and they've been retconned TWICE since!

Hidden. Behind optional content that allowed you to unlock it.
Now, since you apparently consider them so prominent and an integral part of the lore, even more so than other races, explain why would Plagiarizzard wait for many expansions to use them, without ever truly including them in a story, without something like a "core character hero" having legends about him, but instead only doing it after some kids movie hype.