Why You Should Play MoP

[taralej]

that's your opinion, and one not shared by everyone. there's nothing wrong with trying to get more people to play the expansion that you enjoy playing on. hell everyone wants more people on their expansion. there's threads weekly for either lord or Medivh and wanting the population increased. just because mop doesn't meet your preferences doesn't mean it doesn't fit others.

True as that may be, Skuddy, population numbers speak for themselves. The development of the pop count on retail also shows things as they are. "Better" MMOs having come out at the same time is an excuse, not a reason. A true WoW player wouldn't leave the game for another. They would leave it because it's drastically different to what they want and expect from Warcraft. And that's exactly what MoP did. If Notorious wants to blame someone, he can blame Blizzard all he wants.

On a side note, I loved early Cata and I'd give much to see the Cata realm restarted. We had a discussion about this in my guild on Outland last night and pretty much everyone agreed that pre-DS Cata was the ****, and said they'd go to Cata if they could get a fresh start. Of course, this is not possible because it will piss off all end-game geared players on the Cata realm (I even forgot its name by now) and because opening a new progression realm is not feasible (I guess).

[-Notorious-]

I will not play an expansion which has almost nothing to do with the lore and goes completely out of the way to push Asian marketing to players. I will not play an expansion which is "more of the same, but worse". I will not play an expansion in case I feel bad and dumb just by playing it. I re-subbed 3 weeks ago and I have to say I enjoy Legion far more than I've ever enjoyed or will enjoy MoP. And last but not least, I will not play here in case there are other servers which have far better MoP and several times the population. I'm not going to mention any names, of course, Mercy.

Quite a lot wrong here, but let's get into it.

I will not play an expansion which has almost nothing to do with the lore and goes completely out of the way to push Asian marketing to players.

This is the first time you actually gave a reason. Saying PvE and PvP don't interest you is not a reason to not play MoP, its a reason to not play WoW.

I will not play an expansion which is "more of the same, but worse". I will not play an expansion in case I feel bad and dumb just by playing it.

I don't understand what "more of the same, but worse" means, but sure, its your prerogative. I don't understand how an expansion can make you feel bad, as for dumb, I think MoP makes people think far more than they do on other expansions. WotLK talent trees are given to you, the boss fights are pretty boring given how simple they are, and the PvP (in my opinion) is a joke.

I re-subbed 3 weeks ago and I have to say I enjoy Legion far more than I've ever enjoyed or will enjoy MoP. And last but not least, I will not play here in case there are other servers which have far better MoP and several times the population. I'm not going to mention any names, of course, Mercy.

I hear Legion has quite a lot to do and the PvE is great, but the PvP sucks. I don't have an opinion on the expansion, since I haven't played it, but it does sound like a very interesting expansion. I'm not surprised you would prefer Legion over MoP on a private server, I would probably also prefer Legion over MoP on a private server, but I can't play on retail for personal reasons. I want to know, how do you handle the fact that Pandas exist in Legion as well. Or the fact Pandaria does? It doesn't turn you off there, but it does when it comes to MoP. That's a bit surprising.

In terms of lore, you are incorrect. For starters, you don't get to decide what is lore and what is not, Blizzard does. Blizzard decided Pandaren were lore so lo and behold, they are lore. As for WoW creating lore that didn't exist in Warcraft 1,2,3, there are plenty of examples of this. Ragnaros and the old gods were never mentioned in Warcraft 1,2, or 3. The only mention of an Old God prior to Frozen Throne was a mention in the manual. In Frozen Throne Arthas kills a Faceless one, so still no mention of an Old God. Given that Pandaren were in Frozen Throne and part of a secret mission, Pandaren have more lore background to them than Old Gods.

Similarly, Ragnaros has no mention in any of the Warcraft RTS games. The only mention of Fire Lords being a thing was mercenary heroes (like Pandaren Brewmasters, go figure).

My point is, if WoW introducing new elements of Lore is an issue for you, you really shouldn't play the game, since the game has introduced lore at its will in almost every expansion. Pandaren are part of the lore and always will be, whether you like it or not. If your dislike of them is so strong that you can't play an expansion, then honestly I have nothing to offer you.

There are no other servers which are better than Warmane's for MoP. I think I would know more about the topic than you do :P. Other server's are either way more bugged, or don't even have all the raids opened.

So what does that tell you about WoW and MoP then?
It tells me that people got better options than MMORPGs like Warcraft in gaming and went to those. Hearthstone has 70 million players, which is more than double the number of players WoW ever had. LoL had 32 million players in 2012.

You're a simple PvPer and to you the environment of the expansion does not matter at all. The game could have Thomas the tank engine as a boss in it and you wouldn't care less. All that matters to you is that FW has more players so that you can have shorter queues. MoP to you is nothing but more PvP seasons with a little different spells. But as a PvE player and a lore fan, I find MoP to be a blemish on Warcraft lore. This is THE core of the issue, in addition to all the technicalities which I don't like about it.

I've likely played Warcraft far longer than you have. I have probably killed more bosses than you have, across more expansions than you have, and most likely know far more about the lore than you ever will. I played this game since Warcraft 1, hitting every expansion except WoD and Legion. I'd appreciate it if you don't try to judge my experience, based on a forum post. The environment of Pandaria is beautiful, Pandaren are part of the lore, and the lore behind Pandaria is concrete (it deals with an Old God).

The aim of the thread is to get people to try Frostwolf, and see if they enjoy it. If it bugs you so much, don't try it. You don't need to reply here and try to poison the thread with your garbage. What matters to me isn't just shorter queues (though of course I want that, what kind of a person wouldn't?). It is also to have more players to do LFR raids with, more players to arena against/with, and overall more activity on an expansion I like. Wanting more people to play with/against on an MMO isn't some crazy evil scheme, it is what literally everyone who plays any MMO wants...

The development of the pop count on retail also shows things as they are.

At Warmane's launch, MoP and WotLK had equal populations. Crazy how nature do dat, eh?

For slow reaction guys and noobs.
MOP battlegrounds looks like one big slow mo movie with your legs and arms have been chained - evedy baddie has a year to decide what to click to counter incoming "burst".

Yeah, man, wotlk teaches you to not 1 vs 10, otherwise you would be dead.
In premade vs premade games no1 is getting oneshoted, there is always a room to react.

The best expansion for noobs is WotLK, and that too, in particular, Icecrown. On Blackrock, you at least can't be good by using your credit card, which is probably why all the pros like Homerjay play on it. On Icecrown however, you need to just get your hands on some sweet ICC 25hc trinkets and weapons, and you are set to farm the lowbies at their GY while they try to merely gear up. So much fun!

And premade vs premade games are a great example of why Icecrown PvP is garbage. The fact you even mention this event shows how rare it is. On MoP we can do Rated BGs when we need to be competitive, not try and get lucky and get matched vs. another premade to actually have a game that doesn't end in a graveyard farming.

[Mercy]

I gave you the reasons. You just don't see them as "reasons". I will not play an expansion which has almost nothing to do with the lore and goes completely out of the way to push Asian marketing to players.

The further you try to push this point, the more you show how little you understand the game and potential future development. Do you honestly believe that the play on Lovecraft "lore" (you possibly may not even know what this is), which was inserted into the franchise in late Vanilla, is ANY different? How do you expect Blizzard to continue with WoW if they don't create new lore?

I will not play an expansion which is "more of the same, but worse". I will not play an expansion in case I feel bad and dumb just by playing it. I re-subbed 3 weeks ago and I have to say I enjoy Legion far more than I've ever enjoyed or will enjoy MoP.

"MoP is more of the same, but worse, but somehow Legion is better than MoP."
10/10 contradiction.
How you can like ANY expansion when using this as an argument baffles me.

And last but not least, I will not play here in case there are other servers which have far better MoP and several times the population. I'm not going to mention any names, of course, Mercy.

I'm actually a bit pickier than you on this point. I won't play MoP on here, or ANY private server for that matter, because I don't want to ruin the exquisite memories of retail MoP with poorly scripted content.

The point that I, Jakkre and some other people in this thread are trying to make is very simple: MoP is bad, playing MoP feels bad, no one cares how mechanically good the PvE is when its theme is completely off (****ing pandas, shas, raptor-men, wasp-men, mogus etc). I am NOT going to play that ****, and I'm not the only one. And PvP is just "more of the same", so there's no sense to even highlight that as a reason to play the expansion.

Spoiler: Show

So don't play it then? I don't understand what's hard to grasp about this concept.

But as a PvE player and a lore fan, I find MoP to be a blemish on Warcraft lore. This is THE core of the issue, in addition to all the technicalities which I don't like about it.

I have to completely disagree with you here. There is FAR more to the lore in MoP than PANDA PANDA PANDA PANDA PANDA, and to dismiss it as such makes it very obvious that you have never played it, nor researched it.

Figuratively, what you're doing is like trying to push broccoli down my throat, and the more you try the more likely I am to vomit in your face, instead of forcibly eating it.

I mean, you're more than welcome to not open this thread. It's very clear from the start he is trying to recruit players onto the MoP realm. You don't want to play MoP? Well, don't open the thread then? That's like an athiest walking into a christian church and expecting the members of the church to not question the athiest's views or try to convert them.

True as that may be, Skuddy, population numbers speak for themselves. The development of the pop count on retail also shows things as they are. "Better" MMOs having come out at the same time is an excuse, not a reason. A true WoW player wouldn't leave the game for another. They would leave it because it's drastically different to what they want and expect from Warcraft. And that's exactly what MoP did. If Notorious wants to blame someone, he can blame Blizzard all he wants.

People move on. How stable the population of the game is relies solely on its ability to retain long-time players and recruit new ones. In any case, the population still remains significantly larger than any other MMO on the market at any point in time since the game's conception. That hasn't changed and it likely will not change for some time. But since you want to go that route, I think it speaks volumes that MoP's population on retail was significantly more stable than both its predecessor expansion, and its successor expansion - both of which being arguably the two worst expansions in the game's history.

I also find it particularly interesting that in one post, you claim that nothing has changed and it has become stale in PvP, then in the next post you say that MoP changed everything. Make yourself clear!

On a side note, I loved early Cata and I'd give much to see the Cata realm restarted. We had a discussion about this in my guild on Outland last night and pretty much everyone agreed that pre-DS Cata was the ****, and said they'd go to Cata if they could get a fresh start. Of course, this is not possible because it will piss off all end-game geared players on the Cata realm (I even forgot its name by now) and because opening a new progression realm is not feasible (I guess).

I didn't mind the pre-nerf Cata heroics. Beyond that, I would pass on Cata entirely. It suffered much the same problems WoD did. You had X content, but.... hardly anything else. I also have to disagree that "pre-DS Cata was the ****", largely because, in my opinion, the Hour of Twilight dungeons were easily the best addition to the game that Cataclysm brought.

Also, should I bring up the population argument here too? Like how Cataclysm had a bigger population issue (by ratio) than MoP did, or that it is more dead here on Warmane (or any private server for that matter) than MoP is?

This is the first time you actually gave a reason. Saying PvE and PvP don't interest you is not a reason to not play MoP, its a reason to not play WoW.

I couldn't agree more.

At Warmane's launch, MoP and WotLK had equal populations. Crazy how nature do dat, eh?

To be fair, the Cataclysm launch was rather explosive too. But that's how hype train "omg new shiny" sort of thing works.

The best expansion for noobs is WotLK, and that too, in particular, Icecrown. On Blackrock, you at least can't be good by using your credit card, which is probably why all the pros like Homerjay play on it. On Icecrown however, you need to just get your hands on some sweet ICC 25hc trinkets and weapons, and you are set to farm the lowbies at their GY while they try to merely gear up. So much fun!

If you're going to bring the marketplace into the argument, then everything is a toss up. But with that excluded, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Each expansion has its own strong and weak points. However, WoD is easily the most noob-friendly expansion.

[Straiker94]

Before complaining mop is easy we should clarify what "EASY" means. A game is easier then another when you have less thing to do, that means the less you have to do the easier the game is.
So the process of gearing up it's not included, when you compare expansion you shouldn't speak about getting gear becouse the only requirement to get it is time. Shadowmourne is the dumbest item to get if u will to waste month to do it.

So below the reasons why mop is easier than wotlk:

-Too many passives abilities: Any class has too many abilities who can save you from certain death without doing anything, just think about dematerialize of mw monks, second wind or warriors ecc or abilities who can cc without no efforts like slow seal of retri paladins, slow poisons of rogues ecc ecc.
On wotlk the majority of abilities are active, you need to use it and usually waste a global cooldown that in a fast game like wotlk can decide the match.

-Too many emergency spells: Bubbles, Deterrence, Ice Blocks, Dispersion, Cocoon, Revitalize, Karma and so on now become just spam spells that save you under any circustamces. At least on wotlk you coudn't use iceblock during kick or deterrence during disarm of bubble during cyclone and so on. Now they are just a free emergency button.

-Too many free movements spell: I hate this ****, classes dash like they have a motorbike and now if u go behind a pillar following the enemy healer you pretty much risk nothing or almost nothing, you can return in line of sight of your healer in a sec and get full health or he can follow you with no risk or almost no risk. On wotlk if u do it without sacred shield or 3 blooms you are dead for sure

-Too many free resources: I mean...seriously? Pretty much no class can finish mana, on wotlk if u spam spells you get OoM in no time and u are ****ed

-Cloth become tanks: Why this ****? They don't bother about armor, they have a huge amount of cc, they can attack you from 40 yard range (instead of 30 like wotlk) staying away from charges range...and they are also tanky if u get them? At least you think they does little no damage? Well no, 1 chaos bolt and you are pretty much dead exatly like wotlk. Same in a deep freeze...

We can say mop is easier becouse actually there are less thing to do then wotlk, you need more time to learn a class in wotlk then in mop but still playing with all this **** is quiet frustrating. Choise your expansion but it's quiet pointless find the best, there is no best expansion, just an hardcore one (wotlk) and a light one (MoP)

P.s. about bg, stop talking about it, there is no way to balance a random 10-40 vs 10-40.

[Halta]

At least on wotlk you coudn't use iceblock during kick or deterrence during disarm of bubble during cyclone and so on. Now they are just a free emergency button..

This just shows how much you know about MoP pvp. Bubble during cyclone is impossible. Iceblock during kick on frost is impossible, unless you waste Cold Snap (your 2nd block) to reset the locked school.

[romz]

However, WoD is easily the most noob-friendly expansion.

I have to agree with this statement, I'm crap at PvP and I would even do well in PvP just with honor gear. Especially when that gear was extremely easy to obtain. PvE Wise, leveling with MoP Greens in WoD was a bit difficult, until the gear started to roll in, in which case it got easier and easier. As for dungeons, they were "aight" I didn't do too much with them cause doing a dungeon with 10 FPS is kind of impossible. I did complete Heroic Archimonde though, which was easy enough on a MM Hunter (Mostly going for the mount) And that had about 10 FPS as well. It also didn't help that PvP Honor Gear was the fastest gearing process than Baleful. And a lot of people would decline people who had PvP Gear for Dungeons/Raids.

[Skoobydoo]

True as that may be, Skuddy, population numbers speak for themselves. The development of the pop count on retail also shows things as they are. "Better" MMOs having come out at the same time is an excuse, not a reason. A true WoW player wouldn't leave the game for another. They would leave it because it's drastically different to what they want and expect from Warcraft. And that's exactly what MoP did. If Notorious wants to blame someone, he can blame Blizzard all he wants.

On a side note, I loved early Cata and I'd give much to see the Cata realm restarted. We had a discussion about this in my guild on Outland last night and pretty much everyone agreed that pre-DS Cata was the ****, and said they'd go to Cata if they could get a fresh start. Of course, this is not possible because it will piss off all end-game geared players on the Cata realm (I even forgot its name by now) and because opening a new progression realm is not feasible (I guess).

i also loved early Cataclysm.hope we can see fresh server on it the PVP back then was really balanced and fun.

as for MOP,it was bad on retail half of WOW population quit the game back then,and its even worst on warmane since its really bad scripted and not much is working.so i see no reason for anyone to play it.MOP its one of this things you try to forget that happen.

[Mercy]

as for MOP,it was bad on retail half of WOW population quit the game back then,and its even worst on warmane since its really bad scripted and not much is working.so i see no reason for anyone to play it.MOP its one of this things you try to forget that happen.

Exchange MoP with Cata and then I would 100% agree with you.

[Epiknoob]

I believe mop's only real decline in pop was after SoO which lasted way longer than it should.

[taralej]

This is the first time you actually gave a reason. Saying PvE and PvP don't interest you is not a reason to not play MoP, its a reason to not play WoW.

Again, you're cherrypicking and not even getting my point. I'm not going to bother explaining to you as you don't seem to get it from 3 times.

I don't understand what "more of the same, but worse" means, but sure, its your prerogative. I don't understand how an expansion can make you feel bad, as for dumb, I think MoP makes people think far more than they do on other expansions. WotLK talent trees are given to you, the boss fights are pretty boring given how simple they are, and the PvP (in my opinion) is a joke.

Is that why most of the people in this thread are saying the exact opposite?

I want to know, how do you handle the fact that Pandas exist in Legion as well. Or the fact Pandaria does? It doesn't turn you off there, but it does when it comes to MoP. That's a bit surprising.

I ignore them. And I used the 100-level character boost which everyone gets when they buy Legion. I hope that answers your question.

you don't get to decide what is lore and what is not, Blizzard does. Blizzard decided Pandaren were lore so lo and behold, they are lore.

Yes, and the fans disagreed. From the very moment a Pandaria expansion was even suggested in vanilla players cried out against it. But I guess someone like you who has played since Warcraft 1 is too old to remember such meaningless details.

My point is, if WoW introducing new elements of Lore is an issue for you, you really shouldn't play the game, since the game has introduced lore at its will in almost every expansion.

It's not about introducing lore, with all of this Elemental Lords and Old Gods you're talking about. There are things that make sense and there are things that don't. Pandaren make no sense and do not belong in Warcraft. It's very simple. If you think they do, then that's your personal opinion and you're part of a minority.

There are no other servers which are better than Warmane's for MoP. I think I would know more about the topic than you do :P. Other server's are either way more bugged, or don't even have all the raids opened.

There are. Obviously you don't. I played on said server literally a month ago, forced by a friend who thought he could get me back to MoP.

I've likely played Warcraft far longer than you have. I have probably killed more bosses than you have, across more expansions than you have, and most likely know far more about the lore than you ever will. I played this game since Warcraft 1, hitting every expansion except WoD and Legion. I'd appreciate it if you don't try to judge my experience, based on a forum post. The environment of Pandaria is beautiful, Pandaren are part of the lore, and the lore behind Pandaria is concrete (it deals with an Old God).

Thanks for the detailed explanation on your Warcraft experience which only confirms that I'm the more experienced player here. The environment of Pandaria is Asian marketing bull****, Pandaren are not part of the lore, and the lore behind Pandaria is regarding a made-up Old God, which 2 paragraphs above you said is a topic they introduced out of nowhere. So yeah, you just trumped yourself.

At Warmane's launch, MoP and WotLK had equal populations. Crazy how nature do dat, eh?

Yes, because everyone had lost everything on WotLK due to Moltdown and they were all willing to give MoP a shot. We all saw how that went. Use that brain of yours before making such short-sighted observations, please. I'm legit facepalming in front of my screen.

[taralej]

The further you try to push this point, the more you show how little you understand the game and potential future development. Do you honestly believe that the play on Lovecraft "lore" (you possibly may not even know what this is), which was inserted into the franchise in late Vanilla, is ANY different? How do you expect Blizzard to continue with WoW if they don't create new lore?

Read my reply to Notorious on the matter. inb4 "but tbc was even wilder" - maybe, but at that point in time the game was still new and they could do whatever they wanted. Yes, that's a valid reason.

"MoP is more of the same, but worse, but somehow Legion is better than MoP."
10/10 contradiction.
How you can like ANY expansion when using this as an argument baffles me.

Did you just compare MoP to Legion? Seriously?!

I have to completely disagree with you here. There is FAR more to the lore in MoP than PANDA PANDA PANDA PANDA PANDA, and to dismiss it as such makes it very obvious that you have never played it, nor researched it.

I have. The more I researched it, the more I hated the expansion.

I think it speaks volumes that MoP's population on retail was significantly more stable than both its predecessor expansion, and its successor expansion - both of which being arguably the two worst expansions in the game's history.

So you're calling Cata a horrible expansion. Okay. MoP held players because its PvE was decent (at least mechanics-wise), it offered new things PvP-wise (not better, just new), and because it had an entirely new class and race (both of which feel extremely dumb and clunky to play).

the Hour of Twilight dungeons were easily the best addition to the game that Cataclysm brought.

Oh, you're saying that the Cata version of FoS/PoS farming is the best thing from the entire expansion? I'm speechless here, Mercy. Chopped up, spewed out, rushed through dungeons that easily could've turned into magnificent raids (and were even considered as raids at first) are what you consider "the best addition to the game" during Cataclysm. Absolutely speechless.

Also, should I bring up the population argument here too? Like how Cataclysm had a bigger population issue (by ratio) than MoP did, or that it is more dead here on Warmane (or any private server for that matter) than MoP is?

Yes, because no one cares about end-game Cata, including you. :)

(or any private server for that matter)

Again, just like with Notorious's MoP case, I can show you Cata servers which have several thousand players online and completely scripted zones and raids. My maxed and geared characters are probably still collecting dust over there. You have Outland to thank for that.

[LIKAH]

because of older men <3 <3

[-Notorious-]

Again, you're cherrypicking and not even getting my point. I'm not going to bother explaining to you as you don't seem to get it from 3 times.

From your post:

1. "MoP PvE is generally considered to have been amazing" - yes, except that I don't give a flying **** about any of the raids. Mogus, shas, siege of what the **** Orgrimmar??? No, thanks, I don't care how mechanical the raids were. It was for the same reason why I didn't play WoD.

2. MoP PvP is excellent - PvP is the last reason ever that would draw me to any kind of game. My days as a PvPer ended long before 80% of the current WoW player base even started playing the game.

3. Arenas - I don't care.

4. Rated BGs - refer to the above.

All you said initially was that you do not care for PvP or PvE. What you should have said is that the lore turns you off so much that you do not want to play the expansion. Saying you do not care for PvP or PvE is a stupid thing to say for any WoW expansion, as that makes no sense whatsoever. I can only assume by your later posts that you do not care for the environment that Pandaria presents and the PvP/PvE are not enough to sell you on the expansion, right?

Is that why most of the people in this thread are saying the exact opposite?

I haven't done a count (you're free to do so if you like) but I think at least half the players agree with atleast some, if not all, of my points. A few disagree with their concerns being PvP being not so great in their opinion, and the environment being an Asian marketing scheme.

I ignore them. And I used the 100-level character boost which everyone gets when they buy Legion. I hope that answers your question.

Do you close your eyes and tell yourself that Pandaren aren't real when you come across them in a BG or a raid?

Yes, and the fans disagreed. From the very moment a Pandaria expansion was even suggested in vanilla players cried out against it. But I guess someone like you who has played since Warcraft 1 is too old to remember such meaningless details.

I'm actually not that old. I played Warcraft 1 when I was young, as I grew up with gamers who were much older than myself, and I would join in on the games. I would love to see where you got the idea that players cried out against it. Let's take a quick stroll down the road of history:

From Wowpedia: https://wow.gamepedia.com/History_of...n_Warcraft_III

The pandaren started as a creation of Samwise Didier and an April Fool's joke, but they got a massive response from Warcraft fans. In the first BlizzCast episode launched on Jan. 10, 2008, Samwise recalled the process to the creation of the Pandaren April Fool's page: "But so we put that up in there and everyone was like “Oh my God! A PANDA RACE? That’s kind of cool!” And I’m like “Are you kidding me, really? You want to see pandas in Warcraft III or whatever?”"

The real issues with Pandaria at launch (which I actually think were well-founded) were:

Others, on the other hand, seemed to have some pretty negative opinions about the pandaren and the expansion in general introducing also a Pokémon-like pet system and no main antagonist; they seemed to worry about the potentially cute-and-cuddly implications of giant pandas, especially given that the pandaren previously showed up as an April Fools' Joke created by Blizzard for Warcraft III. Other players, who had never heard of the pandaren until recently, believed that Blizzard had in fact based this race on the Kung-Fu Panda franchise, due to the films' popularity, and how well the pandaren in the trailer matches Po's appearance and fighting style in the films.

While the pet-battles system may have been a poor choice to include in an expansion where they were introducing Pandaren to a lot of new Warcraft players (people with little lore knowledge such as yourself), I think pet battles were a good addition to the game. However, the lack of an actual antagonist, when every expansion before had one, was indeed a big misstep. I didn't like that Garrosh was made the main antagonist at the end of MoP, but at the same time, lore-wise it wasn't that big a surprise (if you need a rundown of the lore, I'd be happy to oblige in another post).

It's not about introducing lore, with all of this Elemental Lords and Old Gods you're talking about. There are things that make sense and there are things that don't. Pandaren make no sense and do not belong in Warcraft. It's very simple. If you think they do, then that's your personal opinion and you're part of a minority.

Thanks for the detailed explanation on your Warcraft experience which only confirms that I'm the more experienced player here. The environment of Pandaria is Asian marketing bull****, Pandaren are not part of the lore, and the lore behind Pandaria is regarding a made-up Old God, which 2 paragraphs above you said is a topic they introduced out of nowhere. So yeah, you just trumped yourself.

You are getting your arguments mixed up. You are the one that is taking issue with lore being introduced (or expanded in the case of Pandaren) in WoW, not me. Here is a review of the sequence of events that occurred in prior pages:
1. You claim Pandaren are not lore
2. I claim Pandaren have more lore/history than Old Gods and Elemental Lords, since they were introduced much earlier.
3. I claim that if you take issue with Pandaren being expanded upon in WoW, you must have taken issue with Ragnaros in Vanilla and Old Gods in basically all the expansions after
4. You claim that I am "trumping" myself because they introduced both out of nowhere. This is incorrect, I have no issue with them introducing new lore in WoW, because they have always done so. It is you who is taking issue with it.

As for a "made-up" Old God, I can't even comprehend the sheer stupidity of that argument.
C'thun was made up (obviously a rip-off off C'thulu, literally everyone knows most of WoW's lore comes from Lovecraft).
Yogg-saron was made up (obviouslly a rip-off of Yog-Sothoth)
Unsurprisingly, Y'shaarj was also made up, because ALL OF THE OLD-GODS ARE MADE UP. It is highly likely the next WoW expansion will feature N'zoth. Are you going to say that N'zoth is also irrelevant because he was "made-up". What does "made-up" even mean?? This whole game's lore went from Humans vs. Orcs, to Night Elves vs. Burning Legion, to suddenly Old Gods and Void Gods fighting with the Pantheon. Now it turns out that all the planets (Azeroth included) are actually beings (the Titans) that became the Pantheon?? The most ironic part in all of this, is that Pandaren showed up much before Old Gods and Elemental Lords (even the Dragon Aspects) did, and they make far more sense than a ****ing planet turning into some god-like being.

There are. Obviously you don't. I played on said server literally a month ago, forced by a friend who thought he could get me back to MoP.

Oh really. How about you PM me the name of the server, and I'll give you a quick rundown of what works here that doesn't work there?

Yes, because everyone had lost everything on WotLK due to Moltdown and they were all willing to give MoP a shot. We all saw how that went. Use that brain of yours before making such short-sighted observations, please. I'm legit facepalming in front of my screen.

This is the only logical thing you have said so far. Yes it is likely that a lot of players had lost everything and tried MoP. I actually don't believe those players came from WotLK, they likely came from the (at that time) larger Cataclysm community. I disagree that they left because the expansion sucked, and more likely they left because of the state MoP was in back then. The state has improvement by a magnitude that can't even be calculated, so I believe if they give MoP another try, they will fall in love with it.

Which brings me to the end of this post. I don't know how much MoP you played, how much you raided/PvP'd in it, and why you play the game. It is totally possible that the things you look for in WoW do not exist in MoP. That is fine, I hope you find those things in other expansions. However, when you say stupid things such as "Pandaren aren't lore" when you're okay with C'thun and Yogg-saron being "lore friendly" I have to come and set the record straight. WoW's lore is stupid. It has always been stupid, because they kept trying to expand a universe that initially started as a war between orcs and humans. They kept making it bigger and bigger, until we got to the current situation of Titans actually being planets. In comparison to that insanity, MoP's lore is pretty damn great.

Oh, and regarding this being a futile effort, I have already recruited quite a few (I believe the count is now at 5-6 people) that have told me they are trying Frostwolf only because of this thread. There may be many who have tried it because of the thread who never told me. Furthermore, Frostwolf crossed 1500 players (1540 earlier today) after I believe 2 months. Of course a good portion of this is due to summer ending (typically pops fall in summer), but I also see many many new faces, which is great.

[Mercy]

-snip-

You know, there was a lot that I wanted to say to your post. But I think at this point you're too busy making an argument that doesn't belong in the topic that is based on purely your (some of which, uninformed) opinions. Opinions that you are trying to argue against other opinions, which is silly. It's great that you have your own opinions on some things, but they are just that - opinions. You need to recognize that your opinions are not objective facts, but are instead very subjective by nature. I'd also advise you to refrain from trying to make personal jabs at people when you run out of arguments. That's how you lose. Quickly. Anyway, I don't feel the need to respond to each of your points because I think Notorious has already done a fine job at providing necessary rebuttal.

[Epiknoob]

From your post:
Oh, and regarding this being a futile effort, I have already recruited quite a few (I believe the count is now at 5-6 people) that have told me they are trying Frostwolf only because of this thread. There may be many who have tried it because of the thread who never told me. Furthermore, Frostwolf crossed 1500 players (1540 earlier today) after I believe 2 months. Of course a good portion of this is due to summer ending (typically pops fall in summer), but I also see many many new faces, which is great.

Just over the past week I have been seeing a lot more low levels around and people leveling. So people are definitely giving the realm a try which is a good start.