1. And you would entirely recommend a Tankadin instead of a Warrior (until I can get a DK)? Also, one of the Retadins goes Holy until they have access to Art of War yes?
    U can also use a prot warr but I guess prot pala is easier to handle.
    why death grip obliterate and 4x divine storm?

    obliterate hits like wet noodle without diseases and divine storm is not the biggest hitter. judgement has much higher crit chance gives you mana and hits way harder.
    When u use SoR judgement hits harder.
    With 1dk 4rets however u want to use SoC because it makes u able to global multiple opponents when wings are up.

    DK+4RET was good maybe 3-5 years ago where divine storm literally did DOUBLE damage thanks to seal of command now its trash. you can win vs 9x melee one healer in wsg maybe if they suck.
    With the divine storm+SoC cleaving bug the setup was utterly overpowered.
    Nowadays its still the best 5 man setup as a multiboxer but its not as OP as during the buggy molten times.

    i play most bgs as hunter or fire/arcane mage and i have 100% winrate in last 2 years vs ret multiboxers. they literally cant do anything after i start hitting them from max range and he just needs to stop to heal while he gets destroyed by 2 casters. i had bgs where i did nothing else just spam max range living bomb for 5 minutes until he rage quited
    funny how having 5 characters makes you weaker than having one
    Thats why pvp on the open field is never balanced but always in favor for the ranged classes.
    Spamming LB on a 41 yard range and hiding in the crowd works not only against multiboxer but against all kind of opponents. Same goes to MM hunter that shoots on max distance.

  2. U can also use a prot warr but I guess prot pala is easier to handle.

    When u use SoR judgement hits harder.
    With 1dk 4rets however u want to use SoC because it makes u able to global multiple opponents when wings are up.


    With the divine storm+SoC cleaving bug the setup was utterly overpowered.
    Nowadays its still the best 5 man setup as a multiboxer but its not as OP as during the buggy molten times.


    Thats why pvp on the open field is never balanced but always in favor for the ranged classes.
    Spamming LB on a 41 yard range and hiding in the crowd works not only against multiboxer but against all kind of opponents. Same goes to MM hunter that shoots on max distance.

    divine storm hits harder than judgement of command?

    using LB vs 5x melee who always stack together is better than using it on one target. with combustion it can kill them in 3 seconds with dragons breath or blastwave fire mage alone can wipe them out and i did it many times.
    not possible vs 5x ele or 5x boomkin for example

    ret dk may be good vs lot of melees but when facing ranged dps it turns into target dummies. if engaged from max range they cannot do anything but just stand use their defensive CDs and try to heal

    compare it to 5x ele shaman who can thunderstorm every 9 seconds, ground 5 spells every 13 seconds, kill anything with shock-lavaburst from max range, cannot be feared-meanwhile playing vs ret dk i see them running in fear third of the time, pop bloodlust and elementals, interupt ranged cast without wasting gcd every second and cant be sapped in ghost wolf form

  3. So I took my first venture into the world of multiboxing last night. It took about 2 hours to get some macros set up, some keybinds set, and a lot of trial and error while trying to learn HKN (luckily I like learning new things!).

    I have started with 5 Paladins, probably should go with something simpler but I want a toon that will be able to run other characters through stuff a tad easier (also thinking about hunters, I hear shamans are great but I never really played them in retail and the totem management seems daunting).

    One of the first things I noticed as a fair amount of lag on some of the accounts. Then I realized, I don't need most add-ons that I use for my main account. They don't all need auctioneer, or zygors levelling guide (not that I really used it in the first place), nor altoholic or anything like that. Just maybe a bag manager, and something to auto-sell greys. I will need something for procs but haven't downloaded it yet (is it called WeakAuras?). Are there any other mods you guys suggest? Was Jamba just for pre-WotLK due to the lack of IWT feature?

  4. Don't listen to Troublemakerx, he has no idea what he is talking about. Listen to Jakkre.

    Dk + Ret is overall the best 5man PvP and PvE composition if you have the skill to play it. The only person to reach 2500 in 5v5 multiboxing during retail WotLK was using that comp. Another guy got to 2400 using 4 ele shamans and 1 holy paladin, but the holy paladin was played by a different player which makes things considerably easier. That particular guy used a hybrid Blood / Frost spec to get the 10% AP as well as the haste buff to increase his Ret damage output. Personally I go for frost spec instead since it's easier to manage.

    If a Dk Ret multiboxer is losing to two casters in a bg, he sucks. Judgement will indeed hit harder than Divine Storm, and the healing from Divine Storm is pretty negligible. Judge > Divine Storm > Crusader Strike in general, especially if you go for the t10 two set bonus (lack of resilience makes it a glass cannon configuration though). It can be worth using Divine Storm after a grip though so the judgement will be ready if the opponent is attempting to run out of your range. Same thing for Exorcism. The majority of your healing from this comp comes from instant Art of War procs.

    Keep Sacred Shield up and cycle between Divine Sacrifice, Hand of Sacrifice, Divine Shield and a glyphed Hand of Salvation. Huge damage mitigation for long periods of time. Lay on hands is free insta heal on four characters every 15mins if doing world PvP, BGs or PvE.

    If you will be doing any form of PvP, get engineering on all of them and take the goblin specialisation. The Global Thermal Sapper Charge does ridiculous AoE damage and doesn't use up a global cooldown. The Saronite Bomb is also pretty good as it can sometimes mean hitting an opponent when they are out of range making their hp low enough to use 4x Hammer of Wrath. The nitro boost will enable you to catch up with ranged opponents such as hunters and take them out. Also very useful in WSG if your DK is carrying the flag (ideally a team mate should take it and not the multiboxer though), you can have just the Rets use it to close in on the enemy flag carrier.

  5. It doesn't hit harder. The point of divine storm is the passive smart healing. This comp is not exacty about burst, but about surviveability and utility. Also judgements are ranged and multiboxer can LoS you too if you stand on max range. If multboxer just stands there and lets you harass him on max range... Well that's stupid.

  6. Thanks for all of the replies! This community is awesome.

    I am planning on doing the Dk+Ret comp, was just saying that I probably should of attempted ranged as this is my first MB experience and I've read that ranged is generally easier, so you start with Shamans so you can get used to whatever program you are using.

    Engineering on all of them eh? Well, there goes my little community idea lol. Can always do it with some other toons (maybe I will do 3 shamans (if not 5) to help me get used to the software.

    Question though, what about JC/BS? Would there be a priority one who would get those benefits?

    Another question, what is the ruling on necro threads? I've been perusing the old posts and there are a few that would be helpful to anyone looking for help with HKN. I already rezzed one thread from a year ago, but anything more than that I would be concerned about stepping on some toes

    Also, is Mythal still around? It's one of his threads from like 2015 and all of the links don't seem to work.

  7. Judgement does hit harder than Divine Storm. The point of Divine Storm is that it's AoE and it doesn't require you to face the target to hit them. The healing on it is so tiny it's barely noticeable even with the glyph. As it is based on weapon damage it requires end game weapons to even make a dent. The comp is entirely about burst. It has some good survivability if you can cycle cooldowns effectively, but it's core is burst. Shaman + Hpal would be an example of a 5man team with survivability due to the chain heals / lesser healing wave and the general healing from the Paladin.

    I'll just leave this here since you think "DK+4RET was good maybe 3-5 years ago where divine storm literally did DOUBLE damage thanks to seal of command now its trash."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20100108.../ZOMG_REPORTED

    2503 was his max rating iirc, but that snapshot was 2499.

  8. divine storm hits harder than judgement of command?
    Divine storm hits harder than judgement when u use SoC.
    using LB vs 5x melee who always stack together is better than using it on one target. with combustion it can kill them in 3 seconds with dragons breath or blastwave fire mage alone can wipe them out and i did it many times.
    not possible vs 5x ele or 5x boomkin for example
    5 boomkins are extremly vulnerable to fire mage. U can use dragonbreath to interrupt their starfall and u can also spam LB on max range against that setup.
    ret dk may be good vs lot of melees but when facing ranged dps it turns into target dummies. if engaged from max range they cannot do anything but just stand use their defensive CDs and try to heal
    Maybe a noob multiboxer. A skilled one will deathgrip+strangulate ur mage and global u before u can even blink. Afterwards he will use hand of freedom on his entire team and run for the remaining range opponents while he keeps spamming chains of ice which makes it impossible to kite him.
    There is a reason why a 1dk 4 ret mboxer made it 2500 rating in 5s during wotlk.
    compare it to 5x ele shaman who can thunderstorm every 9 seconds, ground 5 spells every 13 seconds, kill anything with shock-lavaburst from max range, cannot be feared-meanwhile playing vs ret dk i see them running in fear third of the time, pop bloodlust and elementals, interupt ranged cast without wasting gcd every second and cant be sapped in ghost wolf form
    The problem with a 5x ele shami team is that when u get attacked by multiple melee opponents u are forced to constantly heal and u don't find the time to fight back. To win a competitive fight a ele shami always has to play together with a healer.

    I also have a boomkin and ele shami team and believe it or not, 1DK 4Paly is the best 5 man setup.
    Unless u play with a healer friend, in this case its 4 ele shamis or 4 FDK.

  9. Nice that u found his team.
    I tried to search for Aelli's TBC 5s team but couldn't find it on arena junkies.

    I think that there are better pvp builds for the DK though. Seems like he used this 37/34/00 only to buff the dmg of the rets.
    In this spec u don't have heart strike and chains of ice (his only slow) can easily be dispelled w/o virulence.
    His DK hit probably like a wet noodle while the ret burst everything down.

  10. Yeah but in this case if he hysteria one ret,combined with atk power and general shiznits.4 rets count as 5.5 considering dk can also do some additional dmg.
    Meaning ur "#%"%"#.

    I am still thinking a boxing that setup tho on new Wotlk realm cuz this one is so densly populated with bis items it aint even fun.Hence i enjoy Outland Jakkre.
    My final setup is 1x lock,3x sp,1x rogue(rogue servers as main toon ,while 4x serves for bg ,4x much better then 5x on Tbc due to nature of expansion.)Currently nearly 3k gs on all (apart lock) so i am having a blast.

    4x sp is ultra op on tbc comined with lock and can take down 5x ele shammy really easy due to out ranging casting core(spamming r1 pain which does alot of damage) and 4x ve paired with curse from lock plus instants from lock silence from pet,and round robbin silence and fear as intterupters regardless of tremor.

    Plus you got instant shadow word death and prayer of mending which is so ****ing op with bounce ****t and shield as well and dots can intially stun meaning if you can get pass thru inital groundings shaman is in deeep trouble.


    As for wotlk if you can get t2 weps/gloren/sm that team will just crush anything 5vs5 (not talking about large scale casters) since they got instant heals,bubble,and bypass both tremor/grounding since apart from rep stun nothing is needed.Not to mention dmg taht scales is .....

    And on Lord playing that team you will basically crush anyhing should you be partially exped.

  11. Divine storm hits harder than judgement when u use SoC.

    5 boomkins are extremly vulnerable to fire mage. U can use dragonbreath to interrupt their starfall and u can also spam LB on max range against that setup.
    you can outheal that damage by putting 2 hots on yourself and typhoon him away if he ever goes for DB.

    Maybe a noob multiboxer. A skilled one will deathgrip+strangulate ur mage and global u before u can even blink. Afterwards he will use hand of freedom on his entire team and run for the remaining range opponents while he keeps spamming chains of ice which makes it impossible to kite him.
    grip is 30 yard range, living bomb is 41 yards its always hilarious when they try to catch me and walk to me like level 1 mobs

    strangulate is on 2 minute cooldown, you are assuming your opponents are braindead. in reality every BG has premade on both sides that can blow you up. huge majority of pvp players with bis gear always que with premade.

    by the time u reach ele shaman who is casting from 36 yards you need to blow another 2 defensive CDs 2 groundings for chains and catch him in ghost wolf form and even after you grip him he can use thunderstorm.

    There is a reason why a 1dk 4 ret mboxer made it 2500 rating in 5s during wotlk.
    nobody can take 5v5 on retail seriously
    dont forget many people got r1 on retail in 2009 with 6 keybinds because everybody sucked



    The problem with a 5x ele shami team is that when u get attacked by multiple melee opponents u are forced to constantly heal and u don't find the time to fight back. To win a competitive fight a ele shami always has to play together with a healer.

    I also have a boomkin and ele shami team and believe it or not, 1DK 4Paly is the best 5 man setup.
    Unless u play with a healer friend, in this case its 4 ele shamis or 4 FDK.
    you can say the exact same thing about dk ret team vs multiple ranged players. as ele you have thunderstorm every 9 seconds, aoe with nova totem and elementals and roots with no dr

    with dk ret you have 25s cd grip that is only 30 yard range. when you are vs warrior dk as 5x ele you have so many tools to use thunderstorm them away 5 times and blow them up with one lavaburst or just simply outheal their damage while waiting for CD on shock

    as dk ret vs fire mage+hunter you have nothing, i dont think i ever died as mage or hunter vs this team, not even after they blow up nitro boost. its so weak i dont know how people get even convinced into playing this after seal of command fix

    and obviously the thing nobody seems to talk about: fear destroys this comp warrior fear especially


    Don't listen to Troublemakerx, he has no idea what he is talking about. Listen to Jakkre.
    you play this comp on realm where nobody is geared

    try playing it on icecrown where everybody has bis gear and can blow up any of your characters from 36 yards in 3 seconds and you can never touch him

  12. you can outheal that damage by putting 2 hots on yourself and typhoon him away if he ever goes for DB.



    grip is 30 yard range, living bomb is 41 yards its always hilarious when they try to catch me and walk to me like level 1 mobs

    strangulate is on 2 minute cooldown, you are assuming your opponents are braindead. in reality every BG has premade on both sides that can blow you up. huge majority of pvp players with bis gear always que with premade.

    by the time u reach ele shaman who is casting from 36 yards you need to blow another 2 defensive CDs 2 groundings for chains and catch him in ghost wolf form and even after you grip him he can use thunderstorm.



    nobody can take 5v5 on retail seriously
    dont forget many people got r1 on retail in 2009 with 6 keybinds because everybody sucked





    you can say the exact same thing about dk ret team vs multiple ranged players. as ele you have thunderstorm every 9 seconds, aoe with nova totem and elementals and roots with no dr

    with dk ret you have 25s cd grip that is only 30 yard range. when you are vs warrior dk as 5x ele you have so many tools to use thunderstorm them away 5 times and blow them up with one lavaburst or just simply outheal their damage while waiting for CD on shock

    as dk ret vs fire mage+hunter you have nothing, i dont think i ever died as mage or hunter vs this team, not even after they blow up nitro boost. its so weak i dont know how people get even convinced into playing this after seal of command fix

    and obviously the thing nobody seems to talk about: fear destroys this comp warrior fear especially




    you play this comp on realm where nobody is geared

    try playing it on icecrown where everybody has bis gear and can blow up any of your characters from 36 yards in 3 seconds and you can never touch him
    Im wondering if u even multibox because it sounds like u don't.

    U are like trying to tell a pilot how to fly a airplane while u don't even have a flying licence.
    Edited: September 20, 2017

  13. Im wondering if u even multibox because it sounds like u don't.

    U are like trying to tell a pilot how to fly a airplane while u don't even have a flying licence.
    you are the one who said


    ''Maybe a noob multiboxer. A skilled one will deathgrip+strangulate ur mage and global u before u can even blink. Afterwards he will use hand of freedom on his entire team and run for the remaining range opponents while he keeps spamming chains of ice which makes it impossible to kite him.
    There is a reason why a 1dk 4 ret mboxer made it 2500 rating in 5s during wotlk.''


    did you ever multibox vs good players?

    this can work in theory if you play vs bots who dismount in 20 yard range and start casting lighting bolts if the player is any good you will never catch him outside of grip CD you dont have any gap closers

    ''The problem with a 5x ele shami team is that when u get attacked by multiple melee opponents u are forced to constantly heal and u don't find the time to fight back. To win a competitive fight a ele shami always has to play together with a healer.''

    problem with 5 shamans is they can get runoever by melees which they can knock back 5 TIMES or root FOREVER but retdk is fine vs casters because you have 30 yard grip with 25s CD and 2 minute CD silence can you be even more biased?


    ''Afterwards he will use hand of freedom on his entire team and run for the remaining range opponents while he keeps spamming chains of ice which makes it impossible to kite him.''

    what kind of players did you play against?
    if i play ranged class and i see 5 melees coming after me i run before they even have a chance to touch me

    and this is in BG where there is another 4 players and each of them can 100-0 you from 30 yards in 3 seconds.

  14. Did you ever face a good multiboxer?It's obvious that we cannot ALWAYS win versus descent players but moreoften then not we can.
    Do you know that smart multiboxer will as well go back so you have to chase as well?Then again both dk/ret have 15% movement increase to counter your 8% as caster.

    Obviously you will not go toe to toe in extreme open fields /you will choose your surrounding much careful.

    You might run,some1 else might not.Beacuse you cannot turtle entire bg,eventually at one point you have to advance /retreat depending on map favours/flag/bases.

    Also i doublt you can that easily nukeout 36k 5x with dispells on demand /sacs/judgment/bubble/grip/rep/stun/ list goes on.
    Also Free action potion combined with engineering rocket/rocket boots.

    Then again there is also thing called Formation which can avoid aoe/spread pressure.

    But Free action potion pretty much negates any momentum gained to kill boxer.Also 4x judgment with 8k atk power ,gl surviving that with chains etc.

  15. did you ever multibox vs good players?
    Yep, I do play on icecrown and I aready faced plenty of BiS geared premades in BGs.
    Also I did 2k rating in 5s as a multiboxer. On Warsong, Moltens old instant 80 pvp realm, the 5s ladder was active enough for that.
    this can work in theory if you play vs bots who dismount in 20 yard range and start casting lighting bolts
    U are the one who only knows how things work in "theory".
    U are the one who can only assume. Me and many other ppl in this thread are actively multiboxing while u don't. We are the one who can tell u how the things are in reality.
    if the player is any good you will never catch him outside of grip CD you dont have any gap closers
    The whole purpose of adding a DK to the 4 rets is to use him as the gap closer.
    Chains of ice is the strongest slow effect in the game. That in combination with deathgrip makes DK the best class to catch kiters. In addition to that the rets have x4 repentance and x4 stun hammer to make sure that everything that comes closer will stay in melee range until death.
    problem with 5 shamans is they can get runoever by melees which they can knock back 5 TIMES or root FOREVER but retdk is fine vs casters because you have 30 yard grip with 25s CD and 2 minute CD silence can you be even more biased?
    Rooting melee opponents with earthbind to keep them on distance and to mitigate the dmg, doesn't work as multiboxer. Thats only something a normal player can do for kiting. Multiboxer don't have the mobility for that.
    When u are swarmed by melee opponents they stick to ur as's, no matter what u do. Only thunderstorm gives u a few seconds of breathing times.

    I can tell u how a fight of 5 Bis geared melee opponents vs a x5 ele shami boxer looks like:
    The melee opponents rush in and deal enormous single target and aoe dmg with bladestorm, divine storm, etc.
    As shami boxer ull end up trying to outheal the incoming dmg with lesser healing wave spam and at some point ull be forced to use chain heal which most likely gonna be interrupted.
    When u push the opponents back the warriors gonna charge straight away back inside. At some point u might find the time to kill one opponent, who has no deffensives, with x5 FS + x5 Instant Lava. Afterwards the remaining 4 opponents deal so much dmg that u can't do anything but spamming heals until each shami is dead.
    No way u can win this fight unless u have a dedicated healer.

    what kind of players did you play against?
    if i play ranged class and i see 5 melees coming after me i run before they even have a chance to touch me
    I'm actually wondering what kind of players u are playing against.
    Charge, deathgrip and chains of ice have all a 30 yards range while most rdps classes have a higher range.
    Following ur logic every melee dps would lose any fight againt range opponents because he gets constantly outranged.

    In reality u can't kite opponents a entire battle long in a 30-41 yard range unless u fight in a flat terrain with no objects whatsoever.
    Good luck finding such a area.... Maybe u have luck somewhere in the desert of tanaris...

    In addition to that DKs and rets have a 15% increased movement speed so its not even possible to kite them on a +30 yard range for long.

    So yeah, when u fight as a hunter with aspect of the cheetah in the desert of tanaris, its theoretically possible to kite 1dk and 4 rets on a +30 yards range until they are all dead. Will take a while though because ull only be able to use instant spells with jump shoot because otherwise the opponents come closer than 30 yards. Also its gonna be tricky to keep all 5 opponents in combat to stop them from mounting. lol
    Edited: September 21, 2017

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