1. Outland TBC - Arenas and Racials

    In TBC arenas will be only fair and much more balanced if Racials were not working inside the arena, then u can say who is number one..
    People use to play race that they dont like how they look or wats the story line behind it, just pick them becouse they are OP at some point...
    How many nightelf rogues u will see in high reiting? zero... why? becouse there racial is uselss - 1% dodge as passive and Shadowmeld only use in out of combat, same with priest why would u pick nightelf while the dwarf or undead give u so much more..
    im not even sure if its possible to play Nightelf Rogue and Priest 2v2 and get in top 5 rank in Outland cuz any good undead team will counter u hard no matter if they play rogue and mage or rogue and priest or w/e combo, the fact that u can't chain CC, can make a win and losse diffrents
    and thats why u come at point that u have to play Undead! cuz thats the right path if u aim high reiting u choose to be broken and faceroll the alliance by showing a middle finger to Crowd Controll.

    TBC at all is to old expansion blizzard for sure made mistakes by letting this racials to be used in arena, atleast they nerf them in other expansions...
    but here and now in server with 15k players competition is huge and if was me I would set off the racials to be used in arenas, then i will fully respect the all undeads in top 10 but for sure u will see much more alliance teams in top 10 not only horde...

    Please set off racials while inside the arena and lets play one much more balanced game !
    Imagine no racials in arena
    - Undeads - u will finally can make the same CC that they can make to u no more out of Fear or charm effects
    - Orcs - finally no RNG stun resists atleast not at this huge percentige
    - Humans - u wont be seen from 25 yards while in stealth
    - Dwarfs - they wont remove 5 stacks of wound poisons + crip poisons and all freaking bleeds and stuff on them.. fcking OP
    - other racials have some usefull things too, but certainly not at this level of broken ****.. so i can't even put them in this top tier list of being imbalanced
    Edited: September 24, 2017

  2. No thanks, I look forward to wrecking horde scum stealthers on my Human Rogue with my lovely Perception! ;-)
    removing racials = eff arena



  3. lol, if you say diff Racials cause un balance, then i would like to say diff epic make Arenas un balance, S2 vs BG? joke, pls make everybody same epic, so it is fair now.

  4. IT is unbalanced - Racials in tbc are broken as *** if we talk about other expansions is fine
    Blizzard saw there mistake in TBC and as u see in WOTLK they nerf all this bullsh1t like stun resist or undeads share CD with trinket
    If any of u become in top 50 with Nightelf rogue and Nightelf priest combo i will give u all my 10k gold and will delete my char after that, but im sure that all of u will quit trying to do it any mirror undead combo will *** u up and human will sap u this things at high level of skill can mean win or losse diffrents
    even if u go in armory at top 100 such a combo as 2 night elfs rogue and priest does not exist one more prove that the race rly suck for PvP if ur not druid ofc
    i have 2700 exp in Arena Tournament as Rogue and Priest and is much more balanced in WOTLK then TBC racials... im not saying that this is some faceroll or *** but if u take one good team vs other good team something like braking chain CC can make allot of diffrents in the end

    I know they will never remove the racials of a TBC blizzlike server, but i am also right that this will create much more balance in arena no matter wat u guys are saying it will stay true..
    Edited: October 1, 2017

  5. lol, if you say diff Racials cause un balance, then i would like to say diff epic make Arenas un balance, S2 vs BG? joke, pls make everybody same epic, so it is fair now.
    You must be ****** saying this, gear is fine we talk here about ability that no one other can have if ur not that race u dumm ***, if u have some broken item i can have it too someday and the broken item wont win ur arena if u dont know how to CC and wat to focus or when to switch or peel or w/e is need to win.. u must be rly stupid using this kind of logic compare to what Im saying
    Edited: October 1, 2017

  6. I totally agree with Strikie. He has a good point there by the way.
    TBC is to old game and is the first expansion that blizzard start with Arenas, its normal to be imbalanced.
    For sure removing the use of racials in arena will make the game fair for both factions and all races will be finally valuable to use in PvP arena, but all this undeads and humans and every ppl that is "abusing" the racials will not agree with you mate, cuz they have to start using only pure skill without the help of imbalanced stuff that blizzard left behind in The Burning Crusade. :/
    Edited: October 1, 2017

  7. There is two options for those who have issues with racials, keep playing TBC or just simply leave. Becouse racials will never be removed.
    Ive never understood the point of these topics and why people think that chunk of game can be removed if you cry enough.

  8. I've said this before and I will say it again - racials do not belong in PvP. It's very easy for us to observe the negative effects of racials on faction balance in PvP because Warmane is big enough to have examples of it going both ways.

    Icecrown is perhaps the saddest and most direct proof of why racials ruin faction balance, where currently 81 out of the top 100 2v2 teams and 79 out of the top 100 3v3 teams are Alliance. When one faction is dominating the other 80:20, you have to be delusional to think this isn't a result of a factor only that faction has access to and when we examine all these teams, it takes very little effort to find what they all share in common: humans, nearly every single one of these teams contains at least one human.

    Outland is the other side of the coin, where the bread winners are undead and thus naturally Horde dominates the 2v2 and 3v3 ladder with 60:40, most teams containing undead. While it may seem that the situation on Outland isn't that bad, that's mostly because the server is relatively new, it hasn't had the time to get **** up by racials as hard. As time goes on, Outland will continue to see a trend where more and more players will roll undead specifically to PvP, increasing the gap even more until it starts resembling the comical situation on Icecrown.

    When one faction has a much easier time participating in PvP, the average gear level of its PvP playerbase starts getting ahead of the enemy faction, snowballing their advantage until any kind of unorganized faction vs faction PvP becomes a joke. A lot of the fun you're gonna have in PvP depends on you getting some sort of realistic challenge and one shotting undergeared people or getting one shot by overgeared people isn't engaging for anyone. No one likes being forced to play a race just because they're going to be at a disadvantage if they don't but this is the reality of having poorly balanced racials.

    What's the solution? Just get rid of racials. They're not engaging, they're not interesting. Nobody will miss them and the servers will actually thank you for giving them a much better PvP balance and the choice to play the race that they actually want to play.

  9. While you are right, DamnOriginal, if racials didn't exist, then there would be no point in picking a race at all. Removing racials also means removing a big chunk of the identity of a race. This comes from a player who transferred from Horde to Alliance on Outland for the perks but decided to stay.

    In all honesty, I consider people who pick races specifically for their racials and for no other reason genuine scumbags. If gnomes had the best racial in the game, would you have rolled gnome only because of their racial? Why do you even play the game if all you care about is your e-peen and you give zero ****s about factions, races, lore and whatnot if it's not going to affect your personal arena rating? inb4 "to have fun" - you can go out and play with the rest of the kids your age for the same effect.

  10. While you are right, DamnOriginal, if racials didn't exist, then there would be no point in picking a race at all. Removing racials also means removing a big chunk of the identity of a race. This comes from a player who transferred from Horde to Alliance on Outland for the perks but decided to stay.

    In all honesty, I consider people who pick races specifically for their racials and for no other reason genuine scumbags. If gnomes had the best racial in the game, would you have rolled gnome only because of their racial? Why do you even play the game if all you care about is your e-peen and you give zero ****s about factions, races, lore and whatnot if it's not going to affect your personal arena rating? inb4 "to have fun" - you can go out and play with the rest of the kids your age for the same effect.
    In the first paragraph you attach race identity entirely to their racials and claim that there would be no reason to pick a race at all if it wasn't for those racials, in the next one you say people who only pick races because of their racials are scumbags. That's a savage self-roast.

    I completely disagree on what defines a race. Race identity is 99% looks and 1% racials, if even that. You can tell that's a troll by the way it looks and animates, not by the way it has 20% haste for 10 seconds and regenerates 5 hp without you being able to do anything about it, you can tell that's a gnome because it's a midget, not because he can break a slow every minute and has 5% more intellect. Looks are what a race's identity consists of, not some neutered button you sometimes press or some underwhelming passive bonus. There are some flavorful racials like Cannibalize and Shadowmeld but they can't ever reach their actual flavor potential because they are racials, they have to be boring, watered down versions of the abilities those races are actually supposed to have. The issue with this kind of design is that you are attaching mechanical benefits to a choice that should be completely based on aesthetic and feel, pigeon holding the players that seek to get any advantage they can into playing very specific races, ****ting on choice, gameplay balance and all of this for almost no gain in gameplay diversity. Playing a human feels just the same as playing an orc mechanically, the only differences are that the human has more stats in the background that help him kill the orc faster.

    This kind of design wouldn't be so atrocious if the balancing of the racials themselves wasn't so all over the place, especially when it comes to PvP. Entire races are complete trash in PvP, while one race is always at godlike status and since races are split into factions, the faction that the dominant PvP race belongs to always pulls ahead and ruins PvP balance. There's no salvaging this system, it's inherently **** and unhealthy for PvP as is evident by the arena stats in the Armory. The question then becomes how to get rid of the problematic racials while staying fair to all races and the cleanest choice in my opinion is to just axe all of them as they're as mechanically engaging as deciding whether you want to have an advantage or not.
    Edited: October 2, 2017

  11. I totally agree with Strikie. He has a good point there by the way.
    TBC is to old game and is the first expansion that blizzard start with Arenas, its normal to be imbalanced.
    For sure removing the use of racials in arena will make the game fair for both factions and all races will be finally valuable to use in PvP arena, but all this undeads and humans and every ppl that is "abusing" the racials will not agree with you mate, cuz they have to start using only pure skill without the help of imbalanced stuff that blizzard left behind in The Burning Crusade. :/
    My my you *****,

  12. In the first paragraph you attach race identity entirely to their racials and claim that there would be no reason to pick a race at all if it wasn't for those racials, in the next one you say people who only pick races because of their racials are scumbags. That's a savage self-roast.

    I completely disagree on what defines a race. Race identity is 99% looks and 1% racials, if even that. You can tell that's a troll by the way it looks and animates, not by the way it has 20% haste for 10 seconds and regenerates 5 hp without you being able to do anything about it, you can tell that's a gnome because it's a midget, not because he can break a slow every minute and has 5% more intellect. Looks are what a race's identity consists of, not some neutered button you sometimes press or some underwhelming passive bonus. There are some flavorful racials like Cannibalize and Shadowmeld but they can't ever reach their actual flavor potential because they are racials, they have to be boring, watered down versions of the abilities those races are actually supposed to have. The issue with this kind of design is that you are attaching mechanical benefits to a choice that should be completely based on aesthetic and feel, pigeon holding the players that seek to get any advantage they can into playing very specific races, ****ting on choice, gameplay balance and all of this for almost no gain in gameplay diversity. Playing a human feels just the same as playing an orc mechanically, the only differences are that the human has more stats in the background that help him kill the orc faster.

    This kind of design wouldn't be so atrocious if the balancing of the racials themselves wasn't so all over the place, especially when it comes to PvP. Entire races are complete trash in PvP, while one race is always at godlike status and since races are split into factions, the faction that the dominant PvP race belongs to always pulls ahead and ruins PvP balance. There's no salvaging this system, it's inherently **** and unhealthy for PvP as is evident by the arena stats in the Armory. The question then becomes how to get rid of the problematic racials while staying fair to all races and the cleanest choice in my opinion is to just axe all of them as they're as mechanically engaging as deciding whether you want to have an advantage or not.
    Well undead vs Human rouge the Human is better when we say both are with heal Druide so No fear in Dudu rouge combo WHO will win this matchup ???

  13. Most logical balance offer so far... Recently i started playing WOTLK and realized that human racial is so OP that almost every ranked guy in top is human.
    Would be fun to see enrange of those "gladiators" playing race they dont like only because of racial, if warmane would remove racials from arena :D
    Sadly it wont happen, but i hope some realm in future will open with purpose to overcome " blizzlike old misstakes" movement and actually give us properly balanced game

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