WotLK Warrior tank bug

[Vmra745]

Hi, I heard before that prot warriors were bugged in ICC raids in Icecrown realm. So is it fixed or bug is still on?

[densi77]

Works fine. Just learn how to rotate cooldowns.

[boyong]

prot warr is so damn paper on icecrown server esp on ICC raid

[DarkenedHue]

prot warr is so damn paper on icecrown server esp on ICC raid

Are you suggesting it's bugged? If so go ahead and try to figure out what the bug is. If it's something as impactful as people seem to think it is, it will be easy to find.

[Kalevipoeg]

No idea if warriors tanks are bugged or not, but on several occasions I´ve seen warrior tanks getting chopped. As a healer I see them drop with almost one hit and it is a bit weird to be honest. Not always but kind of like they take spikes of damage sometimes, which compared to other tank classes is way too much. Sadly I can´t prove anything, so maybe there is a active warrior tank here that plays presently and is farming 10/25 N/HC weekly that can shed some light on it?

[AluschI]

No idea if warriors tanks are bugged or not, but on several occasions I´ve seen warrior tanks getting chopped. As a healer I see them drop with almost one hit and it is a bit weird to be honest. Not always but kind of like they take spikes of damage sometimes, which compared to other tank classes is way too much. Sadly I can´t prove anything, so maybe there is a active warrior tank here that plays presently and is farming 10/25 N/HC weekly that can shed some light on it?

Pala and DK have their passiv "oh **** talent" that is fixing a deadly mistake by the tank or healer. Druid simply scales the best with the ICC buff. Warrior is just like pala or dk without the passiv "oh **** talent" that comes in handy with ordinary tank players. Warriors have to press a button for everything while other tanks have a few passivs for that.

On the paper, prot warrior is not as bad as people here think they are. Warrior is the most flexible tank, who can decide when and what dmg to mitigate, but if the wrong button is pressed at the wrong time there is no passiv that saves your *** once in every fight.

Last stand, shield wall and regen is most powerfull "oh ****" button of every tank class, lets you survive even without heal for a few seconds. Biggest problem, you have to use this before big dmg, so you have to know when.
Warrior tank is as good as or even greater the other tanks at most icc boss fights. But it needs an expierenced player to do so.

[Beanlord]

Warrior tank is as good as or even greater the other tanks at most icc boss fights. But it needs an expierenced player to do so.

No, stop with this bs argument about skill making prot warriors somehow incredibly powerful. They are the weakest out of all 4 tanks in ICC. Not only do they not have a 12% 4pT10 dmg reduction bonus (like dks and druids), but they also have the weakest passive mitigation compared to all other tanks. Top that off with a lack of a pseudo health modifier (e.g. Ardent Defender, Will of the Necropolis) and you arrive at the weakest tank for ICC. They have some niche uses, but outside of that they were just designed poorly for this particular raid content.

[Panofsky]

No, stop with this bs argument about skill making prot warriors somehow incredibly powerful. They are the weakest out of all 4 tanks in ICC. Not only do they not have a 12% 4pT10 dmg reduction bonus (like dks and druids), but they also have the weakest passive mitigation compared to all other tanks. Top that off with a lack of a pseudo health modifier (e.g. Ardent Defender, Will of the Necropolis) and you arrive at the weakest tank for ICC. They have some niche uses, but outside of that they were just designed poorly for this particular raid content.

They have the health modifier, it's Last Stand. It simply doesn't proc by itself as Ardent Defender or Will of the Necropolis. He didn't say that a skilled player would make a protection warrior an incredible tank. He was just trying to say that protection warriors are not so weak as they picture them. They can fit their role if played well and there's no reason to thrashtalk about this spec. It's not like a mage asking to join a raid while in full frost spec.

[Beanlord]

They have the health modifier, it's Last Stand. It simply doesn't proc by itself as Ardent Defender or Will of the Necropolis. He didn't say that a skilled player would make a protection warrior an incredible tank. He was just trying to say that protection warriors are not so weak as they picture them. They can fit their role if played well and there's no reason to thrashtalk about this spec. It's not like a mage asking to join a raid while in full frost spec.

I acknowledge the fact that warriors are playable and have some uses. I quoted the exact line where he says that a skilled player would make warriors as good as or even greater a tank in most icc fights, which is not true for most icc fights (or even all of them, imo). You didn't seem to understand what I meant by pseudo health modifiers. What I meant is that you could think of both Ardent and WotN as "extra health" because of the way they work. Warriors have no such thing and can only "compensate" with Last Stand (which is already much weaker than Survival Instincts because of the glyph bears use).

[taralej]

Rifo is talking about pseudo health modifiers, like taking reduced damage while below 35% health. This basically increases palas' and DKs' EHP massively over warriors and makes them "immune" to one-shots. Warriors don't have that. Druids don't have that too, but they're the tanks with the highest EHP anyway, so that's some sort of justification. Last Stand - DKs have their own version as well, which albeit weaker than Last Stand in pure health gain and in emergencies compensates and out-performs it over its duration with the increased healing taken; paladins have their own Last Stand built in in Ardent Defender. In terms of design, paladins are the most overloaded tank class on WotLK. Ardent Defender is the perfect example for this - a talent which combines Will of the Necropolis and an automated Last Stand all in one.

Then there is Lay on Hands - an ability with no equivalent among any of the other tanks, which you can have on pretty much every second fight. There is no class in the entire game that can heal as much instantly as a protadin can heal themselves, excluding the VDW encounter. The only compensations for this are Enraged Regeneration, the druid equivalent of it, and Death Strike + Rune Tap - they're useless in emergency situations (DK arguable) and they almost always end up as overhealing, with Enraged Regeneration even disabling your Enrage while its active.

[AluschI]

They are the weakest out of all 4 tanks in ICC. Not only do they not have a 12% 4pT10 dmg reduction bonus (like dks and druids)

depening on the boss shield block is stronger (up 25% reduction) and comes with a shorter cd. 4pT10 is a nice bonus to that...

but they also have the weakest passive mitigation compared to all other tanks.

Source? Values from equip is the same as pala get and talent wise there is no big game changing mitigation (Ardent Defender, Will of the Necropolis does not count here, just read a few more lines). A few % more or less are not realy discussable while healer do millions of overheal.

Top that off with a lack of a pseudo health modifier (e.g. Ardent Defender, Will of the Necropolis) and you arrive at the weakest tank for ICC.

At the point were Ardent Defender, Will of the Necropolis come in handy we are at a point were a tank usually expect a huge dmg income. If theses passives are needed while steady dmg income we are talking about a gear or skill problem, not a class one. Warrior tanks have enough cds to use to mitigate dmg spikes. shield block is pretty much always ready at situations were Ardent Defender, Will of the Necropolis would proc. And here we come back zo the skill point, a noob pala is easier to handle as healer as a noob warrior, but do realy discuss tanks at 50% of their value?

They have some niche uses, but outside of that they were just designed poorly for this particular raid content.

I played warrior tank retail icc nh and hc with a ****load of equip to change for every boss. I was regularly told by healers that i was easier to heal than other tanks. On most fights HP never dropped below 35% (which makes your only argument useless), i would call that a save tank as long as cds used right.
I know that retail expierence is not 1 to 1 compareable to warmane and i admit that some bossfights are easier with dk or druid (or atleast a healer just feels saver). But trashtalking warrior tanks without any prove is not displaying reality unless there is a huge bug.

[taralej]

So you're basically saying that the lack of WotN/AD is compensated by Shield Block? How much does LK25Hc hit for? And how much can you block with a shield, not counting critical block? Then, how much is the uptime of Shield Block and so how much damage in total can you block with it? Compare the 2 as a percentage and now put that percentage against WotN/AD. You're saying WotN/AD don't count because they only matter when you're low - WotN/AD are always there, they're automatic and they give you a pseudo increase to your EHP, which you simply do NOT have as a warrior. A tank's most important job is not dying, not staying above 35% - that's the healers' job. Out of all tanks in the game, warriors are doing this job of not dying the worst.

You're advocating for Shield Block, but now remember that paladins have Holy Shield with 100% uptime and Redoubt which makes them unhittable when it procs. And they have Sacred Shield - the equivalent of the bear passive.

It doesn't matter how you look at it - paladins are just far more overloaded than warriors in terms of tanking. If you put the two classes against each other, paladins almost always win. Single-target TPS is where warriors beat paladins, but this doesn't matter with hunters and rogues in the raid.

[Bensten]

...

The value of block highly diminishes the bigger the incoming hits get. You don't mitigate percentages of the incoming damage, you mitigate fixed values. And block as a mitigation stat on LK is definitely less valueable than any of the other tanks % modifiers.

Warriors are the best add-tanks in RS. A lot of small hits in a short period of time. Other than that they are weaker on every ICC/RS tanking purpose compared to the other tanks.

[Beanlord]

depening on the boss shield block is stronger (up 25% reduction) and comes with a shorter cd. 4pT10 is a nice bonus to that...

????? what was the point of this exactly? Warrior and paladin 4pT10 bonuses are significantly weaker than druid/dk ones. And that is another thing warrios have a disadvantage in.

Source? Values from equip is the same as pala get and talent wise there is no big game changing mitigation (Ardent Defender, Will of the Necropolis does not count here, just read a few more lines). A few % more or less are not realy discussable while healer do millions of overheal.

Ardent defender and Wotn are basically + EHP since they're always present should you go below 35%. You know that other tanks have better passive dmg. mitigation and ask me to link a source for it??????

At the point were Ardent Defender, Will of the Necropolis come in handy we are at a point were a tank usually expect a huge dmg income. If theses passives are needed while steady dmg income we are talking about a gear or skill problem, not a class one. Warrior tanks have enough cds to use to mitigate dmg spikes. shield block is pretty much always ready at situations were Ardent Defender, Will of the Necropolis would proc. And here we come back zo the skill point, a noob pala is easier to handle as healer as a noob warrior, but do realy discuss tanks at 50% of their value?

As I said, ardent and wotn are ALWAYS present, regardless of whether you'd never reach 35% or not, it is as if you had extra HP. Warrior tanks do have CDs, yes and your point is what exactly? All tanks have CDs, DKs for example have more than warriors and stronger ones at that. Shield Block is nowhere near as powerful as Ardent/wotn so stop spewing BS. It is easier to handle a paladin as a healer since the paladin is inherently stronger than the warrior almost across every single thing there is to compare.

I played warrior tank retail icc nh and hc with a ****load of equip to change for every boss. I was regularly told by healers that i was easier to heal than other tanks. On most fights HP never dropped below 35% (which makes your only argument useless), i would call that a save tank as long as cds used right.
I know that retail expierence is not 1 to 1 compareable to warmane and i admit that some bossfights are easier with dk or druid (or atleast a healer just feels saver). But trashtalking warrior tanks without any prove is not displaying reality unless there is a huge bug.

Playing the "I've played on retail and know this and that" card does not validate your opinion. I've presented you with reasons which are supported by all of the theorycrafting ever done on this expansion. You yourself said warriors have less %dmg redcution in your post, they lack an ardent life saver, an ardent/wotn extra EHP and lack of inherent +stamina% that bears have.

And now remember that paladins have Holy Shield with 100% uptime and Redoubt which makes them unhittable when it procs.

Unhittable is a very bad choice of word. It implies that you take no damage, which would be untrue. Rather paladins almost always mitigate a hit via block or avoid it via parry/dodge.

[DarkenedHue]

I played warrior tank retail icc nh and hc with a ****load of equip to change for every boss. I was regularly told by healers that i was easier to heal than other tanks. On most fights HP never dropped below 35% (which makes your only argument useless).

Then you never did Sindy or LK 25hc.

It's laughable to dismiss a talent that amounts to +6-7% EH like that.