To sum up, DKs and bears beat warriors and paladins in EH by a significant margin. However, paladins have more tools than warriors to compensate for this. As WotLK has shown, EH is the single most important number for a tank. So this leaves warriors as the worst of the 4 classes. They're not "bad" or "unviable" - they're just the worst of the 4.
The main issue bears had on TBC was that bosses had crushing blows. But this was removed on WotLK, and so bears instantly became the best EH tanks. The more you progress towards end-game, the more EH outweighs avoidance. This is even more true with the ICC buff and debuff, which favor EH tanks over avoidance ones. At the end of the game, warriors are left at a losing position compared to bears and BDKs and also behind paladins due to the sheer overloadedness that paladins have.
You can play a warrior alright. But you just shouldn't be surprised when they replace you for a bear or a BDK for the fights that really matter - Sindy and LK.
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Banned
Edited: November 2, 2017
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Member
Beside LK which boss constanly drops a well geared tank down to 35%? Not talking about, with cds, preventable dmg spikes.
WotN/AD is very rarely activ while shield wall can be used whenever you want. Log real numbers instead theoretical ones and you will see that shield wall mitigates more as WotN/AD over a whole fight.
Even for LK25hc it does not matter if you mitigate 300k dmg more than a warrior thanks to some EH calculation. What matters is there was at any chance a point where the tank goes down or not. If there is enough heal to heal up the punshing bag druid tank, than there is enough to heal up a warrior who takes 10k more. In the end all tanks survive equaly easy, or all die because of other issues. pala is suprior here, because the raid get a second chance not to fail again.
Warrior tank would only be negativly effected by his lack of EH at LK, if he dies for 100% in a situation. There is so much overheal, that it does not matter if a warrior gets 10k or 20k less overheal than other tanks. It does not make the fight more difficult, it just looks more scary if tank hp drops.
In the end warrior tanks have more cds to use, what gives more potential to fail. If you see a warrior tank always kissing the ground, it is because he is doing something wrong.
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Banned
I'm guessing you're talking about Shield Block, not Shield Wall. All tanks have their version of Shield Wall.
Exactly. This is why bears, BDKs and palas are better.What matters is there was at any chance a point where the tank goes down or not.
No. That can be the difference between life and death.If there is enough heal to heal up the punshing bag druid tank, than there is enough to heal up a warrior who takes 10k more.
So you're talking about overgeared full-BiS groups. This explains why you can't understand the points we're trying to show you. You assume that the boss will die anyway and no one from the raid will ever fail and the tank will never be close to dying. You assume that it's a farm fight and the tank's role in the fight is trivial. Yes, in that case warriors are good tanks. :)Warrior tank would only be negativly effected by his lack of EH at LK, if he dies for 100% in a situation. There is so much overheal, that it does not matter if a warrior gets 10k or 20k less overheal than other tanks. It does not make the fight more difficult, it just looks more scary if tank hp drops.
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Member
What's that assumption is based on? There is no guild on Warmane that is using a Prot Warrior to tank LK25hc on regular basis. Every endgame guild on Icecrown has done it and I guess all are randomly trying to do it with a Prot Warrior. Most of the time they are just regreting it, tho. And the reason for this is the same as why there usually is no warrior tank used on Lordaeron. A tank soley based on block is just lost inside ICC - not being dead all the time doesn't justify the spec being carried by the healers.
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Member
Well Ben there is a guild running lod`s with prot warr consistently and not with usual partner in crime prot paly or bear. I`m not going there how good/bad prot warr is, or how much skills he needs. Can you do it you can, on the other side if you put enough effort you can tank LOD with Frost or UH dk tank also so ;]/.
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Member
Sure, those are perfectly playable, and all capable of producing good results too - but the argument here isn't that Prot warrs can't get the job done. The argument is more that on something like LoD, every other tank just outshines it far too much. Now, given that an encounter like that places a particular emphasis on tank performance and EHP, guilds are even further incentivized to make use of nothing less than the best options available. Naturally, for reasons that have already been touched upon in the thread, this sees warrior tanks swept away to the sidelines.
In the end-game scene, at least on Icecrown, LK 25hc is widely perceived as the only content that really matters, along with RS and maybe a couple of other end wing bosses in ICC. In most of these other encounters, the same arguments against Prot Warriors continue to ring true. RS off-tanking is the one notable exception to that. Between critical blocks, a Shield Block that's available virtually every meteor, a 4 second complete shutdown of add damage via a well-placed Shockwave, and total self-sufficiency in applying AP debuffs on multiple targets, warrior tanks take the least damage of any other off-tank choice by a tremendous margin. Yet even so those aren't necessarily great selling points because off-tank damage isn't usually one of the main hurdles that set you back in RS.
Ironically, despite their immense AoE mitigation, Prot warriors have among the weakest AoE pick-up toolkits. Whereas every other tank has something they can spam or some ground-based AoE they can put down, as a Prot Warrior you're greatly inconvenienced by Thunderclap's 6 second CD. Not only are you extremely dependent on external sources of threat transfer, but at the first instance of one of the DPSers getting a little too over-zealous with their AoE, you'll be the first to lose the adds stuck on you as a Prot Warrior, at least once Shockwave's stun wears off. Unless you're letting the little embers get buffed way too much, DPS pulling aggro and getting destroyed by little adds usually poses more of a healing challenge than the damage the off-tank himself takes, regardless of what class the off-tank is. If any of your tanks are getting hammered too much in RS, it'll usually be one of the tanks tanking Halion himself. To that end, you might be better served bringing along a Paladin as your choice of off-tank for the great tank support he's able to provide the main tank. Or hell, even a Bear would be great for being able to permanently keep up Improved Demo Roar on Halion, which technically a Warrior also could but you lose even more threat in speccing that way. The bear would also bring along an Innervate and a Brez which can be invaluable because people die on Halion 25hc all the time, not to mention the far superior AoE pickup capabilities.
Pretty much the only times when I actually went "gee, a Prot Warrior would be really nice right about now" were when having to pick off-tanks for Anub'arak in TOGC.Edited: November 3, 2017
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Legendary Weaponsmith
actually OT warrs for LoD could be quite valuable. 3% reduction damage on MT due to vigilance, a permanent taunt refresh to catch all those pesky ghouls and enough defensive CD's to get little damage from the shamblings. also, were a shambling be at 10% and go into enrage mode the warr stuns can help a LOT. last but not least, the fact that a warr can intervene the MT when LK casts soul reaper on it. add the AP debuff, the movility it has and the high armor/hp pool it has and it makes a formidable tank.
this is in theory tho.. in practice, for some reason warrs do tend do take more damage than other tanks despite having silimar stats.
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