Let's get something out of the way once and for all

[Madhordish]

1. Is the PVE content in Outland nerfed or is the content in Medivh buffed? If Medivh's content is buffed that means Outland has normal dificulty.

2. Do poeple actually work for their gear or do they just buy it from the shop?

Pls answer these 2 and I will gladly join Outland.

Thank you

[Toxsin]

1) The same afaik.
2) The gear in the shop is a catch up mechanism. You can only buy items from previous tier content, and that is limited - not all items are available.

Why would anyone care if you joined Outland?

[bigbazz]

1. Only Karazhan trash is buffed on Medivh, rest appears to be the same as Outland.
2. Some people work for it, some people buy, some people combine both.

The stuff you can buy barring a few select items is outdated anyway.

[ulldott1]

As I linked in the thread you literally made two days ago, the Staff have said it is indeed tuned harder. What those changes are I don't know.

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2842576

[taralej]

Making new threads on the same topic won't give you more credible answers. On the contrary.

[eshon1]

The pve is the same difficulty.
Although you see people, the server is pretty dead, most just farm gold to buy the gear from the shop, it's less hassle then dealing with 25 people trying to get through an instance with 45 minute trash respawn timers and buggy instances that can waste alot of time.
The gear gets released to the shop super early, almost a few weeks after the content is released, so there is little to distinguish between a dedicated raider and a p2w toon/gold farmer.
Pvp is still in early season with boring blue gear and almost zero player interest.
I get the feeling most people are waiting for black temple to be released before they put any serious effort into the server, until then its just log in to farm gold and buy gear.

It's a shame how crap outland has become, prior to the early cash shop releases the server was amazing, people everywhere, finding groups was easy and the world was truly alive.
Now you spent 45 mins in global just to find a rep run, the majority of players are bots, unless im farming gold for a new cash shop release im on ice crown.

[Lazerblade]

As I linked in the thread you literally made two days ago, the Staff have said it is indeed tuned harder. What those changes are I don't know.

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2842576

They have said this yes but other than the kara trash it appears they are tuned the same

[pyyc1]

1. The same

2. Some do , some don't

/thread

[Natethegreat]

The pve is the same difficulty.
Although you see people, the server is pretty dead, most just farm gold to buy the gear from the shop, it's less hassle then dealing with 25 people trying to get through an instance with 45 minute trash respawn timers and buggy instances that can waste alot of time.
The gear gets released to the shop super early, almost a few weeks after the content is released, so there is little to distinguish between a dedicated raider and a p2w toon/gold farmer.
Pvp is still in early season with boring blue gear and almost zero player interest.
I get the feeling most people are waiting for black temple to be released before they put any serious effort into the server, until then its just log in to farm gold and buy gear.

It's a shame how crap outland has become, prior to the early cash shop releases the server was amazing, people everywhere, finding groups was easy and the world was truly alive.
Now you spent 45 mins in global just to find a rep run, the majority of players are bots, unless im farming gold for a new cash shop release im on ice crown.

Pretty much exactly what this guy said.

[actus93]

The gear gets released to the shop super early, almost a few weeks after the content is released, so there is little to distinguish between a dedicated raider and a p2w toon/gold farmer.

Key point. Black Temple should be out already before T5 was added to store, but we were quite clearly misinformed when we were told T5 items would be added much later. A lot of current BiS items from T5 on the store did in fact come with Hyjal release, a few weeks of Hyjal clears hardly covers those T5 items for current-tier raiders. As can be seen from "Popular" list on the item store, most are current content BiS items.

Main 2 issues:-
1) T5 BiS items released on store too early (before BT where we replace most of them)
2) Items are so cheap in terms of coins. It makes it way too accessible as BiS current items.

Additionally attunements could've been imposed on those T5 items at minimum. Ideally, X amount of kills of boss Y to access the loot, but those ideas were ignored in favor of accessibility. So to your point 2 OP, people have quick store access to BiS gear, therefore some people do work for it, many don't.

[taralej]

Pvp is still in early season with boring blue gear and almost zero player interest.
I get the feeling most people are waiting for black temple to be released before they put any serious effort into the server, until then its just log in to farm gold and buy gear.

That's pretty much exactly what I'm doing. PvE is dead for me now, while PvP is still too boring.

[Mercy]

Key point. Black Temple should be out already before T5 was added to store, but we were quite clearly misinformed when we were told T5 items would be added much later. A lot of current BiS items from T5 on the store did in fact come with Hyjal release, a few weeks of Hyjal clears hardly covers those T5 items for current-tier raiders. As can be seen from "Popular" list on the item store, most are current content BiS items.

Main 2 issues:-
1) T5 BiS items released on store too early (before BT where we replace most of them)
2) Items are so cheap in terms of coins. It makes it way too accessible as BiS current items.

Additionally attunements could've been imposed on those T5 items at minimum. Ideally, X amount of kills of boss Y to access the loot, but those ideas were ignored in favor of accessibility. So to your point 2 OP, people have quick store access to BiS gear, therefore some people do work for it, many don't.

I've checked for my own character over the course of the last few days because I see people that keep mentioning this, and yet I still have not found any pieces of the Avatar set. Which T5 items are you referring to? Because it's clearly not all of them. If any at all. So I'd love some examples to look at, else I'm just going to think you're making false assumptions.

[bigbazz]

The store recently added

Dragonspine Trophy, Void Reaver loot, SSC loot not including Vashj or Hydross and also excluding all T5 tier tokens. I'm against the shop but they gotta stay in business and this isn't too big of a deal considering Hyjal is already open and T5 has been cleared for months, all of the harder/later T5 boss loot is still not available on the store.

If you wanna use an example of BIS loot, the Fathom Lord Karathress chest, but since Hyjal is open there is a direct upgrade from Archimonde, so while it's still no doubt a super strong item it's not BIS. Talon of Azshara, no doubt highly desired by Rogues and Fury Warriors, but both Rod of the Sun King (from KT) and Blade of Infamy (from Hyjal) are superior for both classes.

Dragonspine Trophy and Warp Spring coil are BIS for rogues until Sunwell, so yes there are BIS items on the shop but they both do drop from easy bosses, despite DST being rare. I woulda been happy to see DST never go on the store because it's so strong, but it is what it is.

[actus93]

Happy to clarify. Note: By T5 items I meant T5 content items, so that means TK/SSC loot. (Not including DST)

BiS current content items on store from T5 for the following roles:
Tsunami Talisman - Arms/Fury Warriors, Enhance Sham, Ret Paladins, Surv/BM Hunters/Feral Druid (Cat)
Earring of Soulful Meditation - Holy Priest until Sunwell? Or overall TBC even? BiS current anyway.
Mallet of the Tides - Protection Warrior Main-Hand weapon.
Warp-Spring Coil - Rogue, bis forever. Could be until Muuru, pretty sure that armor pen is bis overall.
Wildfury Greatstaff - BiS Feral Druid (Bear) mitigation set. (Ferocity is better for Stm only, and if you're OT kitty)
Serpentshrine Shuriken - Prot Warr TPS set.
Sextant of Unstable Currents - Elemental Shaman & anyone who prios spell crit.
Serpent-Coil Braid - Mage dads.
Wristguards of Determination - Protection Warrior/Paladin
Warboots of Obliteration - Fury/Arms/Ret (some LW might prefer Utter Darkness, but depends on hit %)
Girdle of the Invulnerable - Protection Warrior/Paladin (Warriors until Sunwell)
Ring of Sundered Souls - Protection Warrior/Paladin
Boots of Effortless Striking - Feral Druid (Bear)
Talon of Azshara - better than Rod of the Sun King for Rogues (Sword spec)/Fury (Agi+Hit and almost equiv but slightly worse than Blade of Infamy depending on hit%) Top 3 melee weapon in the game regardless, small margin to Blade of Infamy.

I'm sure I missed a few and I may have gotten one or two wrong or understated some.

Before people jump on Talon being so good, check the top rogue DPS for 4/4 TK 3/5 MH (esp last 2 bosses) on Raidstats, he uses Talon atm.

My point remains in my earlier post. Current bis items from T5 shouldn't already be on store before BT, as they will not be replaced in Hyjal or are the same as Hyjal items. (And should have restricted access based on attunement/boss kills/higher cost). Not asking for this to be changed, but more caution and thought should be taken into account before killing gearing progression path for many raiders. Additionally we were assured by a Staff member that T5 items would not be in store "for a very long time" assuring us Hyjal was not being rushed to add T5 items to the store. That was the confusing part for me.

-Grave

[bigbazz]

At the above, despite me being against the shop I have to play the devils advocate here because I don't like people using false statements to support their views.

Warboots - The Quickstrider Mocassins from Hyjal are better for Warriors (Arms and Fury) and Rets, as you mentioned Utter Darkness boots are also better for Warriors if you can use the hit, so they are always better for Fury. Warboots are also only a fairly minor upgrade over Fel Leather crafted blues for dps Warrior. Hardly an important item.

Warp Spring Coil - It's BIS until Sunwell, Shard of Contempt, Blackened Naaru Sliver and Dragonspine Trophy are superior. For sure it's a big item though.

Talon of Azhara - It's not better than Rod of the Sun King for sword spec rogues, Rod has a 20-21% proc rate on this server. I've raided with Rogues who have both (Rod/Talon) on Outland and the difference is clear and obvious. Offhand procs with sword spec give free main hand swings so there is actually great synergy with Rod in main hand + Sword offhand, just as the Fist/Sword spec is also viable.. The important factor is to have sword in the offhand, and the huge proc rate on Rod makes it supreme.

Rod of the Sun King is the best Rogue weapon pre glaives with the current procrate numbers. Overall class dps rankings are fairly irrelevant because there is a whole lot more to doing high dps than any single piece of gear. I can beat Rogues/Warriors using DST with my Hourglass of the Unraveller, that doesn't mean Hourglass is better, there are just so many more important factors. Throw in Blade of Infamy, S3 weapons, Warglaives, Badge fists, S4 weapons and Sunwell weapons, Talon of Azshara really isn't anything special beyond T5.

To continue on the subject of private servers raid stats websites, their tracking is far from accurate or comprehensive, we experienced that first hand in Surge when going for speed kills, the stats shown are all over the place and often not representitive of what actually took place. I don't think a week has gone by where I haven't heard people complaining about that in some regard... Hard to put too much weight into such rankings.