Damn, silly me, I completely forgot about all these unquantifiable factors of which we have no data of. How could I be so blind as to focus on the things we actually do have data of!? Obviously, it's just one big coincidence the top arena teams consist of an overwhelming human majority. It has to be the hairstyles.
I will defend to the death your right to have a garbage opinion but don't expect anyone to give you the same credibility they would give someone with actual facts.
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Banned
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Member
Okay then, conclusion of this topic:
Human racial is extreemely potent and completely overpowered in PvP. I don't even know how can someone pass through 1500 rating without it, as it is mandatory for someone who wants to PvP, or it is totally not worth the time. No matter if they just press123 in arena and 234 in bgs with backpedal, that beautiful scale procc will automatically make them lead the top scoreboard right away.
I really hope warmane will disable emfh soon because if they do so I'm sure we will have a chance to get high ratings. Orc ap buff and stun reduction, belf aoe silence, war stomp - cyclone, what's that? All those useless racials, I just use them randomly or just to look cool, because no matter how, when and where I use them, nothing comes out of it.
So yeah, screw the rest, human is all the way!
Good night everyone.
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Banned
Does it not bother you that you sound more reasonable while employing sarcasm?
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Member
Alright, so let us look at the Orc racial versus the Human racial in different perspectives, I am going to start off with an example. Let us start with the Orc warrior benefits: 450 AP Buff that can be used more frequently, 153 Resilience trinket that makes up to all the 20 Resilience gems you need to socket as a human warrior, 35% Stun reduction which is a ****ton of reduction that would benefit your uptime dps and to lastly say the Smorc warrior axe specialization that is really good if you can afford a Shadowmourne. The only benefit that a human warrior gains is the extra trinket, Deathbringer's Will, it can proc Crit / AP / Haste, which kinda blows because you would rather want to only have the AP proc. Like I mentioned before, if you play an Orc you will gain 153 Resilience which in return will make up for the loss of Resilience when you par together a lot of Arp PvE gear with PvP gear, so the ARP difference is not even relevant in this case if you would play an Orc instead of a wannabe human that couldn't do the maths on his own.
Now let us put this BIG question in an even more broad perspective than before, if you are like me, you only cater to the 3v3 PvP scene, then you would probably not give a damn if you lost a 2v2 game or two. 3v3 is team effort, therefore you are no special as a warrior if you think so, in a situational case of 3v3 you would as an example maybe want a Blood Elf Hpala just because of the Aoe silence that is really really underrated by a lot of players. If you queue up against RMP or God comp as TSG you would definitely make more use of the stun reduction and the resilience from your trinket than an extra trinket that is not surely gonna proc the AP buff for certainty, and RMP / God comp are the two most difficult comps to face as a warrior in my opinion, therefore I really do not understand why some people keep arguing about the human racial contra the orc racial. You guys have not made a point yet so far and you are still debating this question like kids. Not every racial is decent, they all serve some sort of purpose but you need to look at the problems you are facing currently, it is stupid to have an extra trinket towards a control comp that will most likely demolish you in a single burst if you do not get out of CC or have the correct amount of Resilience to sustain your HP. The reason as to why so many people like the human racial is because the racial has decency among all of the classes that you can play as a human, it is a simple choice for many because they do not all play a testosterone loaded warrior with a Bladestorm that is about to go off. And for those people that mentioned Warmane PvP ladder statistics, I think you should look back to the retail PvP leaderboard statistics from when Wrath was released and stop commenting because you are irrelevant in every single way and as fast somebody proves you wrong you either call them out with another irrelevant argument that is tied onto your previous one, mentioning the statistics on a private server. an example from the retail leaderboard would be Reckful and Hydra for those of you wondering. This debate is over... dropping it totally
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Member
Watching people blaming crappy things instead of reflecting about it and get better bothers me even more, believe me, but why do I bother really? I'll just play my game and screw this really...
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Member
dont know wtf do you mean with 35% stun reduction.....orc racial give you 15% less stun duration as far as i know.and this is almost useless vs any other team then rogue comps.pretty sure ap buff its 322 not 450 and have 2 mins cd and 15 sec duration.BDW on ohter hand give you 700stats/1400ap for 30 sec not 15 and have 90 sec cd not 120sec.the 2 are not even at the same level at all.
you can make use of belf silence as holy paladin SOMETIMES vs SOME COMPS.but you will benefit 100% of the time from 2nd trinket as human.same apply for other racials aswell.as for retail back in the days dont know if you have ever watch PVP streamers in your life but they all say human racial was really overpowered in WOTLK and CATA.reckful was undead in TBC and most of the wrath then change to human rogue and stay like that until he quit the game in MOP.hydra play both undead and human.
since you wanna see retail in WOTLK...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkMCw_FJMg4&t=5m33s
what you know blizzcon finals have all alliance teams and all who can go human are human...Edited: November 3, 2017
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Banned
Oh goody, it took this wonderful specimen the bare minimum of 2 sentences to be wrong. It's 322 AP, not 450 and stun reduction stacks multiplicatively which would give us around 32% with talents and also mean that stacking additional stun reduction is less effective on classes who already have innate stun reduction. 167 arp > 153 res. 600 crit/haste or 1200 ap for 30 secs > 322 ap for 15 secs. Maybe you should take your own advice and actually "do the maths".
Reading this left a text wall shaped imprint on my eyes and probably caused me some slight brain damage, which is unfortunate because you really didn't say anything worth inflicting that upon myself. Retail PvP ladder saw the exact same tendency for humans that continued into future expansions until they started scaling PvE gear in PvP. Reckful went from undead male to human female in Wotlk. lol. As for what statistics are actually relevant, dear potato, ask yourself what server's boards this topic was made on. Warmane's statistics are infinitely more relevant to discussing the human racial on Warmane because it reflects the stagnant nature of its content and the highly available PvE gear, with which the racial scales. If anything here is irrelevant, it's this hot load of anecdotal garbage you just dropped that said absolutely nothing of value.
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Loremaster
One tiny fix,Reckful never quit officially,he got permebanned for account sharing.Otherwise i agree.
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Member
15% orc racial
20% Iron Will (warrior talent)
and 15% more if you gem it with meta
According to my maths, it makes 50% possible.
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Member
Alright, I did state the wrong AP on the Orc buff but you can not deny the fact that the human racial offers nothing else than the AP buff from DBW aside from proccing the haste or the crit buff that is completely worthless, the 153 resilience trinket makes up for the lack of resilience you would otherwise have due to playing a human, so if you have 153 resilience to put it in a way so you understand a little bit more, you can socket more armor penetration as an orc warrior which makes the arp from DBW quite irrelevant. The orc ap buff is on button press / click, which means you can use it whenever you hardswap or you are trying to burst someone, if you would play a human, DBW could possibly proc the wrong **** and at the wrong time which means you wouldn't have gotten anything out of it.
Now I do not really care about insults, but I do care about people being extremely irrational and when they state things that isn't true. Reckful did not change to Human and through his videos and his streams back in Wotlk he played as an undead and a blood elf mostly. As for a warrior it is rather good to stack the 15% stun reduction with the 20% talent because you want as much stun reduction as possible to make it worthwhile having when you get cc'd. In a 3v3 situation you want more uptime than being completely CC chained throughout most of the game, if that is too difficult to understand I really think you had brain damage before you went in to this section with your toxic comments proving nothing other than how desperate you are to sound rational in front of a lot of people in a hot discussion. Blood elf paladin is really good if you play holy due to the fact that paladins almost never OOM and that they don't need to burst heal to keep their team mates alive, a paladin is a healer and not a dps, don't forget that. The 2 second aoe silence is good when you want to finish of your enemy targets and you can use it quite frequently, so don't tell me you'd rather have a ****ty human paladin with a trinket that gives spirit than to be able to silence your foes after they have endured a full stunlock. Now I can fill in more and more information about this but WoW doesn't revolve around tiny 12 year old kids duelling in Elwynn Forrest with their shiny Shadowmournes, if you're a hardcore player that knows what team effort means you will know that Orc is extremely underrated as a warrior because it just offers so ****ing much, don't base your facts on your feelings.Edited: November 3, 2017
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Banned
Your maths are wrong, they stack multiplicatively, not additively. The meta bonus is also 10%, not 15%, even if you're using the Burning Crusade meta with 15%, that's just a visual bug, it still only gives you 10%.
An orc with meta + racial + Iron Will will have 100 - ((0.90 x 0.85 x 0.80) x 100) = 38.8% stun reduction
A human with just Iron Will and meta will have 100 - ((0.90 x 0.80) x 100) = 28% stun reduction
A difference of 10.8%, not 15% and nowhere even close to 50% total reduction.
I don't know if you're challenged so pardon my question but how does it make sense in your mind that having 153 stat points is somehow more advantageous than having 167 when both stats are desirable? A human will have more stats overall, no matter how you look at it. An orc might need to gem less resilience but the human also has to gem less arp and the difference is still in favor of the human because 167 > 153. As for the procs, it's not even remotely close. DBW not only provides almost 4 times the stats but also has 3 times the uptime. You'd think a warrior, whose main job is to pressure with healing debuff would have the brain cells to understand the huge difference but hey, I never really had particularly high expectations of the IQ required to play warrior.
So far you've provided nothing but personal opinion and 0 facts. You've been proven wrong multiple times and show no signs of improvement. Any person looking for a rational discussion should just ignore you at this point.Edited: November 3, 2017
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Member
If you say so, fine. I couldn't care less. Skooby asked where did he get 35% and I decided to give him the existing sources.
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Member
If you are new to wow and read this, i only have one thing to say to you. HUMAN RACIAL IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE SUPERIOR, YOU CANNOT ARGUE NUMBERS PLEASE DO NOT FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT THESE MONKEYS WHO QUESTION HUMAN RACIAL SUGGEST.- here saved you alot of time, you gonna tank me later trust me
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Member
This argument ^^ lol, I feel sorry for those who can't make their own decisions
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Member
I feel sorry for those who didnt pass 3th grade math.
