Prot warrior weapons

[donque8642]

Hey, so I wanted to ask your opinion on this matter, which one do you think is more viable for a TAUREN prot warrior main hand weapon. http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/The_Unbreakable_Will or http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Mallet_of_the_Tides
The sword provides the same stamina (almost), it gives more TPS, much more armor and slightly more avoidance from that extra 5 def rating (It looks better aswell and you can sheathe it on your back I think :).
On the other hand, the mace gives 14 expertise which is 0,75% reduction to be parried/dodged, it gives less TPS and armor.

I bring this up because I see quite a lot of people running around with the mace, even though I personally would think the sword is better (well it's bis for human warriors, but we're talking about taurens here).

[Ambicide]

Unbreakable Will is clearly better, but the mallet is easy enough to get. Seeing as it drops from debateable the easiest boss in t5 content.

[jajajaja1]

mallet is probably more TPS with the expertise, and less parryhaste, overall mallet should be the better weapon, except for certain fights. for offtanking the sword might surpass mallet.
how is the sword CLEARLY better? for a tauren

[taralej]

Unbreakable Will is basically an upgraded King's Defender. You're comparing 308 armor (which is nothing) and +5 defense rating (which is nothing, especially having in mind the def cap) against 14 expertise rating (which is huge). Mallet is better in that it gives more TPS and reduces parry-haste. The DPS difference between the two weapons is negligible and Mallet should actually beat UW due to the expertise. Since you're a tauren, the type of weapon doesn't matter.

edit: I'm guessing Ambicide meant that UW was better in pure EH/avoidance.

[tr1kyY]

most bosses on Outland dont parry at all, so the sword is better here than intended, but while there are no other sources of expertise in this level on content yet it makes mallet a valuable weapon as well. i'd say they are almost identical.

[actus93]

Both are good, either works. If you want to min-max ofc than Mallet is better overall. The armor on Unbreakable Will + 0.1 sec faster speed is nice, but armor is quite minor especially when you're 20-30k armor in raids with Ironshield/Inspiration/etc.

These graphs will make it simple to understand the Armor scaling problem:

The formula vs. level 73 mobs (bosses) DR = Damage Reduction


As you gain more armor, the % DR mitigation will start to flatten out eventually reaching armor cap at 75% DR @ 35880 armor vs lvl 73.
http://web.archive.org/web/200808110...ing/chart1.jpg

This part is a bit more complicated, you gain less % DR from Armor (16 times less DR at 75% armor, than at 0% armor) as you gain more armor.
http://web.archive.org/web/200809170...hart-armDR.jpg

However, the last DR point (to reach 75%) is 4 times more effective than at 0% DR.
http://web.archive.org/web/200809170...hart-mitDR.jpg

What this graph is saying is that 1% mitigation near the 75% DR cap is roughly 4 times as valuable as it is when you have 0% mitigation.
Another way to think about that is that at 75% reduction, you are reducing your damage by 4.
A mob hits an unarmored player for 100
A mob hits a 75% DR player for 25
Improve both by 1% DR:
A mob hits the unarmored +1% player for 99 – a 1% improvement from before
A mob hits the 76% DR player for 24 – a 4% improvement from before

For warriors (20-30k range) we have a linear armor-to-DR scale in TBC. So while we don't get as much benefit as early DR % from armor, it is an effective stat. For druids, it is amazing as they reach the DR % cap in Bear Form.

Lets talk about Mallet. Expertise is both a mitigation and threat stat. The boss has 0.25% less chance to dodge and parry per point (~3.9 exp. rating = 1 point), so it's 0.5% chance to hit the boss per point (this also stacks with Hit rating you got). It is still a mitigation stat too because of the reduction of dmg from the boss when he parry-haste attacks you. Less the boss parries, less burst dmg you take.

Mallet:
14 expertise rating = 14/3.9 = 3.5 Expertise points = 3.5*0.5 (dodge+parry) = ~1.8% hit rating.

Unbreakable Will:
(Disclaimer: This is my character's current armor, so this is relative to each tank)
My current armor in raids in full def gear = ~25100 (with Inspiration, Ironshield, Devo)

Current DR => (25100/(25100+11960))*100 = 67.72% DR
UW DR => 308 (improved by inspiration+armor talent) = ~424. (25524/(25524+11960))*100 = 68.09% DR

That's a 0.373% DR improvement.

Eg. Archimonde hits you for 30000 unmitigated points (EJ source). That 0.373% improvement is 30000*0.00373 = 111.9 damage reduced on Archimonde. He hits like nothing on this server, so 111.9 is best-case scenario in terms of use of UW. From a theorized Archi swing dmg of 9573 on me fully buffed. (1.16% dmg reduced) He hits me for 6.6k here.

For pure mitigation, your best bet atm is the Sun Eater (+1% dodge).

Avoidance, unlike Armor, will scale exponentially as you gain more of it.
http://web.archive.org/web/200809170...ing/chart3.jpg
eg.
A 1% dodge gives you 2% relative mitigation at 50% avoidance.
A 1% dodge gives you infinite relative mitigation at 99%.

This is why avoidance becomes a hugely important stat in T5+ for Warriors for mitigation gear once we are above 50% avoidance. Threat fights, you'll have separate gear for expertise+hit+block value+whatnot.

Amazing source for all prot warriors: ◊ Quigon - ElitestJerks (Credit to Nigolebigger for linking this to me)

-Grave

[actus93]

I added a bit of comparison between Mallet vs Unbreakable Will benefits. Could use a recheck on the math there in case I missed a buff scaling somewhere..

Read one of the commends here about bosses not parrying here on Warmane, I can't speak for that for sure. I've seen it on occasion on some fights, but it does seem oddly rare. Dodge on the contrary occurs all the time.

With parry not working assumption on some fights, the effective hit chance improvement from Mallet would be halved ofc to 0.9%.

Another weapon I would like to mention is Fang of Vashj.

Fang of Vashj
One-hand Dagger
144 - 217 Damage Speed 1.80
(100.3 damage per second)
+19 Stamina
Equip: Expertise rating + 21 (5.33 @ L70).
Equip: Increases attack power by 56.

+7 for expertise rating & 56 AP at the cost of 15 stamina (1 epic gem slot) & 16 defense rating on Mallet.

21 exp rating = ~2.7% chance to hit (parry&dodge reduced)

Saw it on some Dwarf tank dad so it must be good.

[sebzLAWL]

Really? 0.1 speed for a tanking weapon is quite a lot, unbreakable will is a higher TPS wep if you want an EHP weapon just get a blade of the unrequited and put 3x gems in it

[Grebo]

Really? 0.1 speed for a tanking weapon is quite a lot, unbreakable will is a higher TPS wep if you want an EHP weapon just get a blade of the unrequited and put 3x gems in it

this post is full of lol

@actus: although I think you mean the correct thing, be careful with something like 'Expertise points = 3.5*0.5 (dodge+parry) = ~1.8% hit rating'

[actus93]

Whaddya mean? Like we don't know the boss hit table on Warmane if his chance to parry is too low or not? Otherwise it's pretty straightforward calc.

Expertise is THE threat stat for Prot Warriors @Sebz. It is literally most effective on the tank because we reduce boss chance to dodge and parry, unlike melee dps who only reduce chance to be dodged. Another reason it is amazing is because it stacks with hit rating which is a reduction in chance to miss while expertise as mentioned, reduces boss chance to dodge and parry you, this is another hit item on the player vs boss hit table. You can reach hit rating cap & still build expertise for more chance to hit.

0.1 second speed is good, but this isn't vanilla where we rely on pure weapon speed (assuming full rage), in TBC we have to build Expertise/Hit/Block Value/Crit (even more if Impale spec)/Haste and so on.

-Grave

[sebzLAWL]

I understand its not vanilla mayne, and I also recognize that expertise is the god threat stat - however next time you raid you should check how many parries you recieve in the entire raid on this server and tell me again how great that expertise is. It's rediculously low, and some bosses I feel don't even have the ability to parry.

edit: to add to my statement, experttise is still great - however it loses half of it's effectiveness when there's nothing parrying

[tr1kyY]

Read one of the commends here about bosses not parrying here on Warmane, I can't speak for that for sure. I've seen it on occasion on some fights, but it does seem oddly rare. Dodge on the contrary occurs all the time.

With parry not working assumption on some fights, the effective hit chance improvement from Mallet would be halved ofc to 0.9%.

Just check recount yourself, in t5 i saw only Kael and Karathress parry, Hydross and Morogrim dont parry, not sure about the rest. Even when they do parry, the chance is really small like 3-4%, when it should be 15%. In Hyjal not a single boss has parry chance

[Aymus]

Unbreakable Will is basically an upgraded King's Defender. You're comparing 308 armor (which is nothing) and +5 defense rating (which is nothing, especially having in mind the def cap) against 14 expertise rating (which is huge). Mallet is better in that it gives more TPS and reduces parry-haste. The DPS difference between the two weapons is negligible and Mallet should actually beat UW due to the expertise. Since you're a tauren, the type of weapon doesn't matter.

edit: I'm guessing Ambicide meant that UW was better in pure EH/avoidance.

Look below your reply and see how a proper answer is given. You have no idea what you're sayin. ;)

[taralej]

Look below your reply and see how a proper answer is given. You have no idea what you're sayin. ;)

Who the **** are you and why should I care about your trash criticism?

actus93 and I are on absolutely the same page, he just decided to elaborate more on it.

Edit: never mind, I just checked your latest posts. I don't know who you are but I know what you are - blocked.

[actus93]

May I request the Quality Assurance team to check the Parry % situation from bosses? I see this rumor of bosses having low/no Parry % flying around all the time. @Proterean

From this source on ElitestJerks under the topic Parry Mechanics:

Parry rate is not as certain. The current estimate for boss parry rate is: higher than 15%, but no greater than 16.25%.

I have no memory or record of Parry occurring except for once on Vashj, but she doesn't even melee.

Aside from this being an important global boss mechanic (impacting burst damage taken on tanks & threat generation), it relates to the OP because it would impact the value of Expertise stat for tanks and perhaps our future weapon choices.

Meanwhile, the dodge reduction would still be fantastic from Expertise, and bosses Dodge % seems to be perfectly fine. I'd still use Mallet over UW.

-Grave