Firstly, I'm sure you know how to quote a post or a part of it, so feel free to do so. Second, your eloquence and arguments got me beat, I don't know what to say to such well constructed post. You my dear fellow are a winner, cheerios!
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Member
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Wind of Northrend
Quoting does nothing, except wasting my time deleting the things i dont want to quote, so il pass, this is the easy way.
As for the argument, do I really need to say anything else?
Do you really think you are the one and only one that opens with ERW into Gargoyle?
Do you really think we dont use Gargoyle at all?
Do you really think we wer not talking about the rotation that happens 99% of the time, aka, everything except the opener?
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Member
It's sad actually. I hope that the people reading all of this aren't as ignorant as you.
This is irrelevant, optimal dps isn't about personal preferance/liking.
I was waiting on my supposed hypocrisy as well but I guess we'll both have to make due and instead of waiting for something I've no obligation to do I'd suggest configuring your Kahorie's and using it.
The thing is you refuse to believe anything based on logic so nobody can prove anything to you. If you actually had any kind of math background you'd know that anecdotes and personal bias aren't logic and are therefore irrelevant. If you can't accept statistics then you're a hopeless case.
But you are stupid. Your posts up to this point are either trolls or asking justification on why math works. It's not me being defensive. It's the truth that you have trouble accepting.
Personal preferance and optimal dps setup are two distinct things. There's nothing wrong about having a preference. There is wrong in saying that your preference is somehow better than the established BiS in terms of items/gems/enchants/glyphs/anything dps related (as anrylol did) without backing up your claims with anything. There's a good reason why sims were and still are used.
I strongly disagree. 100-200 dps is not a small margin. It's certainly not within the margin of error for sims when accounting for single target dps. But then again I have the mentallity of optimizing my builds as much as possible. Anything less than that isn't good in my eyes.Edited: February 17, 2019
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Member
That's not how Glyph of Disease works. You don't lose any ticks so long as you applied the DoTs separately.
This doen't explain why GoD is better. This only accounts for why you personally are fond of it.
All things considered, it does rather appear that you're engaging in plenty of mental gymnastics to wave off what is a pretty overwhelming consensus. While sims do have their limitations, at the end of the day a well-made, accurate sim is the most reliable guide you have to consult when it comes to questions of what the most mathematically superior options are. Acting against the advice of a sim should be an informed decision made by a player who knows what they're doing and has a solid justification for why his chosen method might play out better in practice. It doesn't yet appear that you've managed to produce such a justification satisfactorily.
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Forum Veteran
Sure, I'm not saying its better or anyone who don't use it are fools.
I'm saying that it has it's benefits in fairly common situations. Sacrificing minor dps gain in the sims you can gain lots more in situations that actually happen. Mistakes, more burst-y damage on adds, spikes and such. General ease, less buttons to push. Saves you from annoying dodges/parry on PS. RP gained from AMS, Wild growth, Rupture.
And it can't really be expressed into sims. Sure sims are great, I use them, great tools. But take it with grain of salt.
P.S.
Applying dots separately defeats the point of GoD, tough you can do it with that devastating loss of 20% lower one of disease ticks and half of WP ticks. We are talking about something around 0.6% dps loss on paper here.Edited: February 18, 2019
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Member
I don't think anything when it comes to wankers with no manners on forums and I can't read minds at distance. If you didn't mention something then you didn't mention something, it's not up to me to guess and think why. Is it because you don't know, you're not capable or just don't give a damn? I don't know, maybe one of those, maybe all three, maybe none. Thus the comment.
BiS lists have been established, yet people still argue between DBW HC and DV/DC HC for unholy DKs. I'm wearing DBW simply because no one else in that raid at the time needed it, even though I'd like having DV/DC more but I haven't done ToGC since we were in Solace / Encore. The point is that it's not such a large difference in DPS but I can understand that someone might like seeing Taunka form proc, while someone like me prefers the sure strength proc from DV/DC.
If you remember from way back, you know I also did this on a daily basis. I had hundreds of talent respecs on my DK, pre and post moltdown. But if someone came now and for the example of a current argument, showed me with evidence that GoD is better for unholy after all and that my DPS would go from 16 to 17k, I'd still stick to manually refreshing diseases. Simply because after 9 effin years of playing a DK on this server, I simply don't give a damn about those margins. I don't die in raids due to stupidity, I don't do major screw ups due to not knowing my class and I think that's way more important than 100-200 dps difference. Hope you see my point there, I didn't have my first coffee of the day and it's all still a bit foggy. :)
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Wind of Northrend
@Diemtee
"If you didn't mention something then you didn't mention something, it's not up to me to guess and think why."
I guess u suck aswell on your DK than, since you NEVER do Pestilence to spread diseases, nor you do Death and Decay on 2+ targets.
Rotation u wrote down is a wack meng, a WACK!
@Angrylol
"less buttons to push" i just explained you its no, to max 1 button difference in rotation. Its not like you have to push 100 buttons, stop using this dumb argument PLEASE.
As for "0.6%" dmg lost only:
On a dummy in Ironforge while having HoW, Desolation and Bone Shield up, this is the Disease tick difference btwn GoD and GoIT:
GoD:
Blood Plague - 915 dmg
Frost Fever - 995 dmg
Wandering Plague - 1095 dmg
GoIT:
Blood Plague - 950
Frost Fever - 1250
Wandering Plague - 1350
Now if we introduce buffs from weapon enchant, trinkets, ring, Shadowmourne, GoD tick dmg stays exactly the same ALWAYS, while DMG of diseases if you use GoIT and apply them manually increases every time depending on which buffs u had at the point u applied diseases on the target.
Diseases do arround 20% of your overall dmg:
https://imgur.com/a/45EteZg
If you think reducing 15-20% of your dmg is equal to overall 0.6% dps loss (its not just 20% from the Glyph, you also lose the dmg based on all the buffs u would have at the point of reaplying PS and IT manually)...
But i guess ur math overall is not so great considering you dont see this as a problem.
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Forum Veteran
*one of diseases get benefit from IT glyph
*WP ticks that proc from that disease get increased damage(so half from ~25% more ticks)
*procs work on diseases regardless of glyph, as far as I know pestilence reaply don't keep stats on diseases what they had at the moment of apply with IT+PS at the start of the fight. (It would make GoD undisputed and you can watch how diseases tick for 3.5k whole ICC, would make t9 builds legit)
*0.6 number was meant in that particular case, in vacuum and was approximate number. We can go with 0.9% if it makes you feel better. Point was that it wasn't the point of GoD glyph.
Frost Fever - 1250
Wandering Plague - 1350
Should it even double dip in something here?Edited: February 19, 2019
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Member
Again, learn to quote. And when all else fails, please resorts to sarcasm and a sad attempt at trolling, cause you know, arguments and normal discussions are for stupeds, right? Well then... awesome mix of unholy and frost gears, super gemming mate. Please do tell me more.
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Wind of Northrend
@Diemtee
Again, i will pass, thanks tho...
And when you cant even spec or gear your own character, go on forums and try to say something about someone else.
But sure, if u want to drag it this way, lets go, with some arguments...
I am assuming this is your armory: http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
You Race choice is bad, Human is better for anything you are trying to get.
1st spec i really dont get, is it for tanking? is it for pvp? its waste of talents anyway.
2nd spec also has some wasted talents, but i guess you know better? Why cast MORE Death Coils when you can just increase its dmg by 15%?
I dont see any of your yellow gems being matched with 10str10haste gems, maybe u forgot to fix your gems before calling my out? If you however want to argue on this topic and appear as delusional as Hubby is on this topic, you can scroll a bit and see the values i posted from the guide that dates from retail times, where even 10str10crit gems in yellow sockets out weight 20 strength gems.
I would love for you to explain to me how is the gear i am using wrong?
Is there any itemisation that will give you more stats overall if you go for Armor Penetration cap as Unholy? If there is, please do tell.
Am i not supposed to try and test new things in game that i didnt for a long time? So i am up to date? To back my claims on the topic i might discuss with someone?
As for your arguments, i dont see you showing any tbh. You have a chance now on the topic of gear, maybe even on gemming aswell, if u are such a pro pleyur.
P.S. I hope you will see this post and reply even tho i did not quote it once again.
From what i know, quotes do nothing. U wont get a ping, u wont get a special silver star for trying, so why bother?
Altho, I can say that you have a big + from me for not hiding and actually showing your armory in the first place. This is the one and only reason i didnt want to drag this "argument" with you this far, but since you insist, have fun. :D
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No worries mate, I got nothing to hide. I was away for nearly 2 years due to work and general RL BS and I'm slowly getting back. So let's get down to it. My race choice has nothing to do with passives, actives, race abilities and so on. I mentioned earlier than I don't fret about minor differences. I simply enjoy playing a dwarf DK and that's it. As per gem choice, gems are from 2017 and AGAIN, minor differences I don't really care about. I manage to be on par and quite a lot of times ahead of even BiS unholy DKs with skillmourne, so I don't see the point. Also, I'm not BiS myself yet but once that happens, I'll play around with gems. And about your retail values, I'll take it into account when warmane's gonna be retail quality.
As per my "weird" spec, it's a mix of tank and PvP spec I use since I got back (and change / play with it on a daily basis), for the sake of solo farming world / dungeon achievs. As per my PvE dps spec, you really don't have anything to say there so you're spewing out some BS about "why more DCs". I'm guessing you referring to me not having Dirge, when I don't have any RP problems and can dish out just the right amount of them without it interfering with my runes getting of CD.
Also, you're BSing me about retail values about my gems, spec and rest, while most of those I play around and change every day / week. At the same time, you're saying why you shouldn't try and test new stuff in game that you didn't for a long time? How is you doing it fine, while me doing it is wrong? Hypocritical wanker much? Not to mention it looks like you log in every 3 months or once at month at best, but you give out the impression of being at point and on point with everything here. Anyway, what kind of a player would I be if I'd just believe everything some random guy on a forum wrote, without testing it for myself?
About your gear, you had 2x unholy spec with arp leather equips for frost spec. The reason I mentioned was to show you just how dumb your posting is when mentioning stuff like that, and making sad attempts of trolling someone. I guess reading between the lines ain't your strong side.
As for my "arguments", you firstly replied TO ME in a "hur dur" way, so why the hell should I do any different when replying to you? I'm not one of those "turn the other cheek" people, I'll slap you back the same way.Edited: February 20, 2019 Reason: typos
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Member
A new challenger joins the battle, and as usual you have the same quality of Hubby/Angrylol UHDK's. You are trying to point out things while you are not even specced correctly and you are ALSO bragging out that you beat BiS unholy dk's. I wonder which kind of brain damage they have to be beaten by a gloren 3/3 morb uhdk that is purely gemming STR even on yellow sockets. Nobody cares of your real life, you came here as someone with knowledge on unholy but your armory link gives us the proof that writing while being anonymous is free...
@ Angrylol, GoD is even worse on AoE fights than IT, you loose even more WP procs and WP/IT damage on multiple targets. Please stop trying to give explanations that don't have any real proof, you're just ridiculous at this point.
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Member
There was no brag meant in my posts, you people have serious problems if you only see stuff like that. Answering to any post just brings new crap to the table. What would satisfy you or prove to you that I'm doing just fine and probably above average DKs? In game screen shots with detailed DPS from fights? Though I'm guessing someone of your great caliber and talent wouldn't care for that either.
Edit: Mentioning my RL was to point out the fact I've been away for a while. That being said, I'm open for new ideas due to changes cause by warmanes fixes and "fixes". But if you're gonna give me crap, I don't see a reason why I wouldn't give it back.Edited: February 20, 2019
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Wind of Northrend
I hope i dont get ******ation one of these days from reading and replying to these forum posts...
Yes indeed, i was the one that came here and said: "And btw, you all are talking about rotations and shizz, yet I didn't see anyone dropping ERW and summon garg in it." so i dont see me coming to you in a "hur dur" way, since this itself is the most "hur dur look at me im a pro" response someone can think of.
On the topic of gems and spec, i can just say that if you really are someone who plays DK for 9 years, apparently math is not your stronger side (if you insist i can go into detail how things that wer logical in 2017 are still logical to this date, something like matching yellow sockets for example, where you dont need retail values to tell you what to do, regardless of a server).
On the topic of retail vs warmane, you do know they use RETAIL LOGS to FIX stuff on WARMANE, on top of them calling server "BLIZZLIKE" (also, i doubt anything changes on a daily bases, since im still playing the same spec and rotation ever since they merged Ragnaros and Deathwing)?
On the topic of me logging every 3 months and being a random guy that has no clue what is talking about, i wont say much but i will let the pic do the talking:
https://imgur.com/a/Rg1BvBR (altho i doubt with your common sense abilities, or reading between the lines, you will see what i tryed to say).
Those Lether pieces, wrist and gloves, tosks and aldrianas, are the two best armor penetration items in the game, regardless of class and spec, whenever u go for arp cap u go for these two items. The only reason i used them is due to me TESTING if its better than the actual strength build (since a friend suggested me to give it a look), and again, it wasnt ME who decided to call ME out on that matter (i am still waiting for you to enlighten me with a BETTER itemisation for armor pen build, since u did say something like: "awesome mix of unholy and frost gears, super gemming mate. Please do tell me more." or am i not reading between those lines well enough?
Guy that was "way for nearly 2 years" coming here talking about "what kind of a player would I be if I'd just believe everything some random guy on a forum wrote, without testing it for myself?" "Not to mention it looks like you log in every 3 months or once at month at best". :D
As for the statement: "I still do more than some lolmourne udks there" (that slipped somewhere and i couldnt copy paste it exactly how it was), I can also outdps a bis udk while being on a 2k gs mark, if the player is afk or ******ed.
P.S. I dont mind anyone testing anything on a dummy or in a raid.
U can go freaking spell power gems and build as far as i am concerned, I AM the guy that tryed every item, talent, rotation in game and wasted **** ton of time, money, coins, gold on it. Its a great learning process everyone should go trough... But not as an subjective ignorant scrub.
You can also feel free to use anything in your build as much as you like. Hell, i use ******ed "6 to all stats" gem and wrist enchant on my feral just for my OCD, but when people ask me why i do it, i dont tell them its cos im metabreaking.
Wont make any difference when it comes to dps? Its still not THE best, and has no place in any feral related topics (for example, since the same goes for any other class/spec).
Whatever you can think of, i already did. Meta is set is stone, and you cant break it. Believe me, i try every day and i always fail at it, not just on a DK.
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Member
This one stands and you have my apologies for that one. I could've gone about that one differently.
As for the rest, I don't intend to comment since it would just bring more crap up and I'm done with it.
P.S. I will test out the gem difference with matching yellow sockets. A few of you can just be less of a "Richard" about it all. Cheers.
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