WotLK Gear Based Battlegrounds

[Yunix]

What's your guys opinion on having a system for BGs that bases the character's ilvl like RDF HC and sets them against people of the similar ilvls.

Having 1k-2.9k GS 3k-4k GS and so on. This would also work great with the possible upcoming cross realm BGs. What do you guys think? I am not suggesting this should be done, just wanted to ask about your opinions on it.

[zwitter321]

What's your guys opinion on having a system for BGs that bases the character's ilvl like RDF HC and sets them against people of the similar ilvls.

You can que naked and change gear during bg.

[DamnOriginal]

The unavoidable consequence of a system like that is increased wait time, which is unfortunate because people generally judge a server by how long it takes them to get in and not the quality of PvP inside, which in turn means the chances of us seeing something like this implemented some day are close to null. In particular, the system you're proposing would increase the wait time significantly as it would greatly restrict the amount of people it can fill any particular BG with, having multiple half-emtpy BGs slowly filling up as opposed to just lumping them all together and starting much faster.

A more sensible and less restrictive design would be to have an average gear level of each side and having the system try to keep them equal as it adds players, with some small leeway available. This way the system isn't as restricted in what people it can fill a BG with but combined gear levels on both sides remain roughly equal, preserving some semblance of balance. This is still gonna increase wait time but I imagine by a significantly lesser amount. Main issue here is actually building this monstrosity as it would require some on the go calculations, which could also potentially affect server performance.

I think it's safe to assume that none of these are gonna happen. Balance seems to only be a concern when it affects overall faction ratio (coughOutlandcough) and not when one faction is dominating a particular aspect of the game 4:1 (Hello, Icecrown arena ladder).

You can que naked and change gear during bg.

That's easily solved by just disabling gear switching in BGs.

[Drkwispurr]

Several players have been asking this since... ever? Not only about ilevels but also separate prem from pugs...

[zwitter321]

That's easily solved by just disabling gear switching in BGs.

That's a bad idea.

[DamnOriginal]

That's a bad idea.

And that's a bad, unsubstantiated response. Your perceived problem has a very simple solution that already exists in the game for arenas. Of all the drawbacks you could've chosen, you picked the most irrelevant and easily solvable one. If there's any reason these systems will fail it's because of the increase in wait time, not because people can't swap their PvE trinkets in BGs.

[zwitter321]

And that's a bad, unsubstantiated response.

Crap suggestion recieved crap response.
Didn't bother to explain cause only real inbred could suggest that bull**** with gear switching being disabled on the battlegrounds.

[DamnOriginal]

Crap suggestion recieved crap response.
Didn't bother to explain cause only real inbred could suggest that bull**** with gear switching being disabled on the battlegrounds.

This isn't a suggestion, that's clearly stated in the OP, you would know this if you could read. This is more of a thinking exercise and judging by your other posts, thinking isn't one of your strong suits so I'll help you out here. Either elaborate on why you think this is such a big deal or continue calling other people inbred for expecting basic argumentation and risk acute iron poisoning.

[Evangelion]

That's easily solved by just disabling gear switching in BGs.

It is a bad idea tho.
1. Imagine joining a BG and you find out that there's no healer and nobody can switch even if they have a healer spec/gear because of this....
2. Imagine joining a BG and there's like 5-6 healers in some of the smaller bgs and none can switch to DPS because of this...

These are just some basic reasons why it'd be a very bad idea. I can probably list more if you want that.

It'd be just better to implement Rated BG instead of 5v5 bracket (they ban almost anyone who tries 5v5 anyways, so that's pointless). That way you'd have it with arena points as well and rating required for items. And geared people would probably be queueing for that AS PREMADE since it'd be more fun than arenas to some people.
Also don't pull a "it's not blizzlike" here, we have tmog and it nullifies any "it's not blizzlike" comment.

[Skoobydoo]

i agree with rated BG part it will be way better.random BG is something people queue to chill and rekt noobs because they are overgeared.no one had ever take random BG serious anyway dont see any reason to change the way they work.if you are low geared...well that suck i am sorry but if you start the game 2 weeks ago and i play it for 2 years and i am fully geared yes i wanna be able to rekt you in BG,this is the whole point of progression, why will you take that away from players?

disabling gear switching in BG is bad wtf dude.as evangelion said what if you wanna change your spec?or what about classes that swap weapons like warrrior?

[DamnOriginal]

It is a bad idea tho.
1. Imagine joining a BG and you find out that there's no healer and nobody can switch even if they have a healer spec/gear because of this....
2. Imagine joining a BG and there's like 5-6 healers in some of the smaller bgs and none can switch to DPS because of this...

These are just some basic reasons why it'd be a very bad idea. I can probably list more if you want that.

Look at all these variables here. First of all, we need to get one of the small BGs, then we need to roll bad team mates while the enemy doesn't, then we need a particular player with the gear, spec and willingness to switch as opposed to doing what most people do and just continue playing the spec they want to play because this is a random BG that they joined for that specific reason, then we need to gamble some more that this particular player switching will make any difference whatsoever. And at the very end, we need to realize that all of your issues are easily solved with premades. Something I find funny is that if your concern is balance, why do you think someone switching to DPS or healer is gonna make a bigger impact on it compared to both teams having equal average gear level? Because it wont.

Let's hear the rest of what you got because those two are the exact same point just worded differently and it's not a very good one at that.

It'd be just better to implement Rated BG instead of 5v5 bracket (they ban almost anyone who tries 5v5 anyways, so that's pointless). That way you'd have it with arena points as well and rating required for items. And geared people would probably be queueing for that AS PREMADE since it'd be more fun than arenas to some people.
Also don't pull a "it's not blizzlike" here, we have tmog and it nullifies any "it's not blizzlike" comment.

Yes, let's give people an easy way to get Wrathful and make 2s and 3s even less attractive. Genius!

disabling gear switching in BG is bad wtf dude.as evangelion said what if you wanna change your spec?or what about classes that swap weapons like warrrior?

Obviously weapons will be excluded as per arena and combat rules. This is typical MMO player mentality where they're gonna perceive something taken away from them as bad, no matter how insignificant that thing might be, with complete disregard for the bigger picture and the effect it's gonna have.

[Evangelion]

Look at all these variables here. First of all, we need to get one of the small BGs, then we need to roll bad team mates while the enemy doesn't, then we need a particular player with the gear, spec and willingness to switch as opposed to doing what most people do and just continue playing the spec they want to play because this is a random BG that they joined for that specific reason, then we need to gamble some more that this particular player switching will make any difference whatsoever. And at the very end, we need to realize that all of your issues are easily solved with premades. Something I find funny is that if your concern is balance, why do you think someone switching to DPS or healer is gonna make a bigger impact on it compared to both teams having equal average gear level? Because it wont.

I'm one of those who change spec depending on what their team in bg needs, doesn't matter if it's the small BG or AV, I do it because it's fun. So yes I always play what my team lacks.
Also when there are teams with same gear in it, the ones who have healers have a bigger chance to win, or if you have too many healers you'd most likely lose if the enemy team is half decent.
And even if it was like that, it's easily abused by "twinking" on lower gear, it'd still be an advantage over other players.

Yes, let's give people an easy way to get Wrathful and make 2s and 3s even less attractive. Genius!

You honestly think that people with 5k gs will get invited to Rated BG or even actually win in it? It'll generally be for high geared players who want to have actually good fights in bgs and aren't that keen on playing 2s.
1. Also Cata did this, did it hurt 2s/3s? No, it didn't.
2. Do you honestly think that gearing in 2s is difficult? Come on, it's a joke to get geared to 4/5 WF. And 3s are played by people who are going for rank, achievements or want to attempt getting WF shoulders/t2 sword legit (which is rare), or just have fun playing it and not randoms. So I doubt that 3s would be affected by this in any way.
And people will still most likely have to use 2s to get geared because it's a hell of a lot faster to do 10 arenas on low mmr than finish a single BG 10v10 premade BG (also nobody who's under 6k-ish gs would get invited anyways).

[DamnOriginal]

I'm one of those who change spec depending on what their team in bg needs, doesn't matter if it's the small BG or AV, I do it because it's fun. So yes I always play what my team lacks.
Also when there are teams with same gear in it, the ones who have healers have a bigger chance to win, or if you have too many healers you'd most likely lose if the enemy team is half decent.
And even if it was like that, it's easily abused by "twinking" on lower gear, it'd still be an advantage over other players.

Joining a BG with one spec and then having to switch to another is what you consider fun? Interesting. I'd imagine most people join BGs on the spec they actually want to play. Either way, balanced gear on both sides is gonna have a much greater impact on balance than you switching your spec and feeling proud of yourself. A matchmaking system for BGs can also be tweaked to prioritize balanced teams of DPS/Healers on both sides but that's probably gonna add even more wait time.

You honestly think that people with 5k gs will get invited to Rated BG or even actually win in it? It'll generally be for high geared players who want to have actually good fights in bgs and aren't that keen on playing 2s.

The more players in any competitive mode, the more variables there are. The less individual skill matters, the easier it is for people to get carried. This is why nobody takes 5v5 seriously, it's just a meme bracket used by wintraders and multiboxers. This wouldn't really matter on a Cataclysm server where there's no requirements for gear but this is Wotlk.

1. Also Cata did this, did it hurt 2s/3s? No, it didn't.
2. Do you honestly think that gearing in 2s is difficult? Come on, it's a joke to get geared to 4/5 WF. And 3s are played by people who are going for rank, achievements or want to attempt getting WF shoulders/t2 sword legit (which is rare), or just have fun playing it and not randoms. So I doubt that 3s would be affected by this in any way.
And people will still most likely have to use 2s to get geared because it's a hell of a lot faster to do 10 arenas on low mmr than finish a single BG 10v10 premade BG (also nobody who's under 6k-ish gs would get invited anyways).

You're comparing retail ladder to Warmane and Wotlk to Cataclysm, which is just dumb. Warmane PvP activity is way more fragile, 2s are fairly active but nothing compared to retail and the situation with 3s is way worse and 5s are dead (Thank god). Cataclysm removed requirements on gear so any scrub could get full Wrathful by just capping their conquest every week, regardless of rating. This is why the presence of rated BG didn't matter much there since nothing required skill anymore, just time. If you introduce rated BGs in Wotlk, you're introducing a mode that takes less skill and offers the same rewards, basically a big middle finger to anyone actually doing 3s.

[Evangelion]

Joining a BG with one spec and then having to switch to another is what you consider fun? Interesting. I'd imagine most people join BGs on the spec they actually want to play. Either way, balanced gear on both sides is gonna have a much greater impact on balance than you switching your spec and feeling proud of yourself. A matchmaking system for BGs can also be tweaked to prioritize balanced teams of DPS/Healers on both sides but that's probably gonna add even more wait time.

So having two pvp specs and switching them depending on what my team lacks is apparently making me feel proud of myself? What.
No, I just enjoy playing PvP with different specs because they're all fun. Also I don't like healing when there's already 5 healers because then it's boring, usually almost nothing to do unless it's AV.

The more players in any competitive mode, the more variables there are. The less individual skill matters, the easier it is for people to get carried. This is why nobody takes 5v5 seriously, it's just a meme bracket used by wintraders and multiboxers. This wouldn't really matter on a Cataclysm server where there's no requirements for gear but this is Wotlk.

5v5 is different than BG tho, in BG you don't just need to focus on killing the enemy team but objectives as well. Outsmart people etc (of course, that's if there are two good premades fighting each other.

You're comparing retail ladder to Warmane and Wotlk to Cataclysm, which is just dumb. Warmane PvP activity is way more fragile, 2s are fairly active but nothing compared to retail and the situation with 3s is way worse and 5s are dead (Thank god). Cataclysm removed requirements on gear so any scrub could get full Wrathful by just capping their conquest every week, regardless of rating. If you introduce rated BGs in Wotlk, you're introducing a mode that takes less skill and offers the same rewards, basically a big middle finger to anyone actually doing 3s.

I'm not comparing it, I just used it as an example.
Also rated BG wouldn't be giving 3s rewards obviously, but only unlocking same stuff as 2s are doing. And 2s are blatantly stupid to play to get 2k rating to have everything it can offer, and I'd always choose playing 2s over RatedBG to get my 4/5WF gear because it's 10x faster. Everything else is people playing it for various reasons, none of them are gearing. So RatedBG wouldn't hurt them much. Then there's also the fact that most of those arena heroes on higher rating wouldn't bother with Rated BG since they like arena more, and everyone who's gearing would still be using 2s for it.

I honestly wouldn't even care if Rated BG wasn't giving points but only rating instead so you can have competitive teams there as well. With some rewards from say first 3 ranked teams at the end of a season. (Nothing huge like the 2s/3s ranks are getting (since RatedBG would be 10 players per team, but still something)

[Yunix]

Seeing some good opinions on it from both sides. Especially the weapon swapping for stance dancers. And to restate this isn't a suggestion, hence the category the thread is in.