Hi guys,
Lets start by saying something : since we are on private and people change comp/mate very frequently, i understand very well that mmr drop is a need to keep some fun, but lately, it have become more a tool to makes some ratio team, and to go faster in the 2K+, than to reset and enjoy a normal arena progression.
I’ve take a look at the actual top 100 in 2s on icecrown, and I’ve seen several interesting things I want to share you now.
I’ve seen several team using mmrdrop to go far lower than 1500 (1500 is the normal MMR you got when you start a season, for those who don’t know) :
http://armory.warmane.com/team/Esket.../match-history
1165 mmr at start
http://armory.warmane.com/team/pigs+.../match-history
1295 at start
http://armory.warmane.com/team/WD+ea.../match-history
1243 and 1372
http://armory.warmane.com/team/The+M.../match-history
1113 and 1289
http://armory.warmane.com/team/opa/I.../match-history
1059
Those players are actually in top 100, do they really need such a big mmrdrop ? that’s ridiculous.
But some other players are even more vicious : you know that once a team is 1K+ rating, if you leave and come back, you personal rating will be 1K. Some top 100 players use it to down their mmr once again…(take a look at the match history after they reached 1K+) :
http://armory.warmane.com/team/Ohre+.../match-history
From 1965/1497 mmr to 1641/1173
http://armory.warmane.com/team/Final.../match-history
From 1799/1680 to 1414/1295
http://armory.warmane.com/team/The+T.../match-history
From 1850/1309 (it’s already a LEL) to 1319/1022
http://armory.warmane.com/team/pap+p.../match-history
From 1450/1454 (lel) to 1121/1125
http://armory.warmane.com/team/Skibi.../match-history
From 1344/1348 to 1164/1168
http://armory.warmane.com/team/and+a.../match-history
From 1723/1727 to 1029/1033 ( good job ! )
http://armory.warmane.com/team/Geari.../match-history
From 1841/1429 to 1549/1137
http://armory.warmane.com/team/More+.../match-history
From 2101/1677 to 1659/1245
http://armory.warmane.com/team/heirl.../match-history
From 1647/1309 to 1096/1102
http://armory.warmane.com/team/POINT.../match-history
From 2016/1618 to 1769/1371
http://armory.warmane.com/team/full+.../match-history
From 1488/1837 to 1049/1213
http://armory.warmane.com/team/Panje.../match-history
Some don’t even hide to do it, and mmrdrop in their actual team :
http://armory.warmane.com/team/Panje.../match-history
From 1999/1577 (7 seconds long match) to 1703/1281.
Is it a problem ? well, I think it’s a big yes, since it’s very game breaking for "normal players", especially the ones who’re gearing up. It makes them face some BiS players, penalizing them more than anything.
I can give you one example :
http://armory.warmane.com/team/KEKMO.../match-history
This team faced the team Pap Pap ka ka ka when they were at 1208, and they lost 13 points from this match. -13 at 1K2, and against what ? it should be the worst stuff/players in the game. Hmm in fact not, just the most vicious ones.
Once the mmr of the mmrdroping team doesn’t reach a certain point, they really have a serious impact on the ppl who are just trying to gearing up.
What could be done to stop this ? well, find a way to make mmr impossible to be under 1K3 or 1K4 ? Put arena team rating at 1000 once you create them, it would cancel the possibility to mmrdrop two times ?
A solution should be found, since it’s the medium players (in term of skill/stuff) that pays the prices of this practice. And I only take a look in the top 100, who knows what we could find if we were doing the same for all 2K+ team for example…
Honorable mentions :
http://armory.warmane.com/character/.../match-history
912 mmr the 28 september :D
http://armory.warmane.com/team/putte.../match-history
Some mmrdroper vs another mmrdroper : WHO’S GOING TO LEAVE FIRST ?!
http://armory.warmane.com/team/hi/Icecrown/summary
Hellosir, 6K+ mage, 726 mmr, the true hero of mmrdroping. You can’t challenge him. He must wait to find some opponents at his level, bru.
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Member
MMR Drop fest a.k.a : how to top 100 in 2s
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Member
every single person who is pushing rating in WOTLK is droping MMR.if you start with 1.5k MMR and 0 rating until you reach 2k rating your MMR will be like 2300.if you start with 800 mmr on other hard at 2k rating will be much lower so its just natural players exploit the system.its like this for many many years,did you find about it just now?this is main reason in cata blizzard make it when you high MMR and low rating you get 98 per win until you reach your MMR range.
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Member
Didn't they try to adress this issue few years ago? When they did a change and no one could get above like 2k rating or something because of the mmr?
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Banned
wtb blackrock mmr system
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Banned
I'm curious whats bad about TBC arena system with no MMR whatsoever.
Why was MMR implemented in the first place?
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Member
This is why i have little interest in doing arena nowadays. Full of droppers and scripters. Anytime someone takes an arena achievement seriously I just want to laugh
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Member
@ Skoobydoo : "every single person who is pushing rating in WOTLK is droping MMR" => No, just no ballz, Landriaz, who creats this topic, (and me) get a rival title here without mmr droping. In 3v bracket there is the same problem.
In my opinion, there are many solutions :
1500 is the normal MMR you got when you start a season (as said Landriaz), but it's possible to loose without mmr droping & down this MMR (cause of low gear team or other leggit reasons).
1) If we wanna keep a blizzlike arena working, i think it's an emergency to decide an officially drop mmr cap (like 1300 or 1400, i don't know) cause if nobody can down mmr until 1300 (or 1400), warmane staff will have not to check all mmr players for future. (but players can also up a arena team to 1k, leave team, mmr drop & back to team after) so maybe this solution is a bit difficult to implant here (but cumulate with Landriaz' idea [new team begin at 1000] it's possible to do a serious rule.
2) Burning Crusade system, no MMR. For me it's the best solution : problem in arena bracket in BC is (+30 -30) if 2 teams got a lot of difference in rating, but in TLK the system is "chiller" ^^ we win more rate & loose less than BC.
3) TLK system with [Arena Team Rate]=[MMR] (not MMR=PersonnalRating). With this 3rd solution i purpose, the personnal rating stays blizzlike (necessary to buy gear, & necessary to respect conditions of titles reward for season).
Btw, i hate 2s bracket, but i think it's an error to remove Glad title in 2s :
1) it's not blizzlike
2) we are many players in Icecrown, 20PvpTitles / 3months (with a lot of players who are in top10 in 2v & 3v bracket) (even if we will stay on TLK expansion on ICC), with some characters who ever get glad who drop mmr in 3v, to snipe honest player who never use mmr droping, in order to help their alt char to stay on top10... Pvp here is dying.
PS : please try to find a real "script tracker", players will never have more doubt vs their ennemies.
Ty for reading my edit.Edited: November 24, 2017
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Banned
Awesome work... in vain.
Will be fixed right after demolishers passengers damage = the day after `never`.
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Member
Let's first state that i'm one of the teams who, this season have dropped mmr, cause otherwise wouldnt be kinda a proper discussion.
Keep in consider while reading my post, that i got already my titles on all my chars except for paladin, so isnt like i want get title.
In my opinion more then "punish" mmr dropping, it should be fixed or solved.
Let's make an example: You did games with your friend, reached idk 2.4 mmr (quite easy starting at 1.5 with 0 team rating) and then for a reason or another you'll change team and start a new one. Now you'll have 2.4 mmr on a 0 rating team, altho the team rating doesnt increase as supposed to be (take a look on blackrock for example) so u'll be in this situation:
- Wait tons of time in que, cause the mmr expand really, and i say really slow
- Winning will just get you 48 points till 1000 or 1500 (i dont remember), then it will start to be lower then 20 points each.
Now let's make another point: You start a new team, 1500 mmr / 0 team rating. and you want push rank or push titles (not my case, but i try to make you understand)
You get @1.000 team rating aprox 2k mmr unless you loose, which if you're decent wont happen, after that you'll keep play and get 2.2 or more @1.8 rating, and it keep goes up.
In other terms, the system looks like giving advantage of the guys with the worst score possible, isted of allow more rating gain from who get flawless scores and have their mmr way more then team rating.
Another example, few days ago i played with my paladin (aprox 1.8mmr back then) in a new team with a friend that had aprox 2.7 mmr......we qued at aprox early afternoon, and literally we didnt got que for 15mins, and it was the first team match.
Now, what we can do? Yes, as Warmane says they wont allow the titles at the end of season, altho we need to consider that plenty of people loose on purpose to lower their mmr after 1k which in my opinion, is exactly the same as mmr drop.
I think the only solution, with the system we currently have, is to make the teams start at 1.5 rating already (Anyway anyone can get 1.5, as u dont loose rating when you loose) and put an npc to restore the mmr , otherwise warmane will always have "mmr droppers".
I challenge you to get ques at 1.9 rating and 2.6 mmr......If for any reason, people dodge you &/Or you simply arent active enough to get online when any similar or higher mmr team is in que.
I hope you got my point.
The mmr should always be the same or close to the Team/Personal rating, not like 200+ difference always...
http://armory.warmane.com/team/oklm/Blackrock/summary example one. You can see that the warrior is the same rating, the paladin not even 100 above, cause he played already in other team prolly (dont have all the games)
http://armory.warmane.com/team/basura/Blackrock/summary same mmr/tr
http://armory.warmane.com/team/hhbnn/Blackrock/summary same example of the first one.
While in icecrown:
http://armory.warmane.com/team/Femal...ecrown/summary same mmr/tr, they had to drop after 1k (you can see from the team/personal games)
http://armory.warmane.com/team/laylay/Icecrown/summary kinda bad score to be 2.8 Shaman have even lower mmr then rating
http://armory.warmane.com/team/rush+...ecrown/summary 66% win/loose, same tr/mmr
Are aprox years that the pvp community is asking for mmr fix, and Warmane stated it was changed time ago, but nothing in reality happened.Edited: November 24, 2017
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Member
if they can simple add cataclysm rating system all problems will be solved.simple make people get 100 rating until they reach their current MMR and we good to go.btw the queue time problem on high MMR will never be fixed its just how it is even on retail today.people who lose to you always will dodge and other who can win will always try to snipe then you have to dodge.and queue times will always be super long or you will play vs teams who are way too low MMR and you get nothing from them.there is no way to fix this problem it exist in every single game that have competitive ladder.
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Member
I’m happy to see few answers !
From what I remember, they implemented the MMR system in order to prevent good player from remaking to often and stomping low/medium player.
Idk really know if it was really such a big problem during tbc, but I remember very well that on tbc private server years ago (with low pop, like 1000-2000 players max at the same time), it was really a big issue, and everybody was crying for the MMR to be implemented.
Actually on tlk realm, mmr is sometime used, coupled with the fact that you get 1K personal rating when you enter a 1K+ team, to stomp low team more and more.
Why do you need to mmrdrop if you are at 1K5 ? You’re going to face people with the same mmr as you, so you’ll get the adversary you deserves. Don’t tell me that those people who mmrdrop two time (before the creation, and once at 1K) are having hard time ? Don’t tell me they are having hard time facing new team when they are at 1K9 team rate ?
Haha, I keep hope for something.
Ty for you witness Auren.
As Scoobydoo said, que at high mmr at any hour isn’t something that can be fixed (I mean, it’s better to que once evening has come (NA players inc, and it’s after work in eu).
Anyway, I’m totally for a possibility to reset your mmr once you create a new team (this could be an option once you create a team, or something automatic), but I’m still totally against mmrdroping because the actual situation leads to some people abusing it as hell (reset mmr once at 1K, or go even under 1K mmr, which cannot happen even for the worst player of the server). MMR is supposed to reflect your level, and the problem is when those people who mmrdrop are around 1K4, they keep massacring people which they shouldn’t even que against. To me, those people came to a point ratio and the way they look in Elwynn forest is more important than anything, and they use any abuse they can. The ppl I listed before are almost all full stuff and don’t get anything interesting in 2s, they don’t push title really seriously too for some of them (some reteam to often for that) so it’s just e-penis.
Maybe I’m wrong and if cata system was here, they wouldn’t mmr drop, but I think it wouldn’t be the case.
Some have mentioned the Blackrock system ? Can anyone give me some information about it (I don’t play there) ?Edited: November 25, 2017
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Banned
On Blackrock, rating in 2v2 and 3v3 ( I dont think in SoloQ) are softcapped at 2.5k. You start winning less after that.
Additionally after about 1 minute of queueing you can face significantly lower ranked teams.
Personal rating catches up much faster meaning you can actually change your team midseason which isnt possible on Icecrown.
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Member
Why people drop MMR? Because of the following - I did 2k rating on my priest with an okay score. 90-30. Now I have 2k rating and 2.4k MMR. And whenever I queue I'm vs 2.4k rated teams because of them dropping mmr to be on the same level of team rating as mmr. Basically if the MMR was working properly that wouldn't be an issue.
What Skoobydoo said would fix the issue instantly, get 100 rating per win until you reach your MMR and be done with it.
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Banned
But that on the other hand would inflate the team and personal rating of everyone because the MMR is naturally higher than ur team/personal rating.
To take ur example, a team that doesn't drop the mmr has like 2400 MMR when it reaches 2k rating.
With these changes that u mentioned u would have 2400 rating instead.
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Member
That is some serious work and research y'all put into something no one really gives a **** about. Venture off into the world bros and be of value to it and yourself. Your passion here is wasteful.
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