WotLK Valanyr hpala

[Princessochka]

I'm going to get valanyr for my hpala soon, yet i have some questions. I heard that valanyr was somewhat nerfed for hpalas (shields proc, but don't stack from overhealing). What do you think about it's state guys - does it worth it, is it that good for hpala, or i would be disappointed after purchase?

[Evangelion]

You'll most likely end up being disappointed.
Every single stat it has is lower than heroic mace. And yet only because it's legendary it costs 100 coins more.
What you heard about is right, and since no matter how you look at it, hpala is overhealing2000 class and your primary purpose is to keep tanks alive - which mostly means a lot of overhealing so the shields will generally be weaker if not useless.
I don't even remember the last time that I saw a hpala with it, that says a lot.

My friend that has it is using LK25hc mace instead of it as well.

[Princessochka]

Actually almost every hpala near dala bank has it :D

So is it truth, that after blessing is proced, overhealing doesn't build up the shields?

Wiki clearly says that amount of absorb depends on heal amount (number) itself, not the amount "healed" (<100%hp). Checked the bugtracker - all reports were dissmissed. Why?
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Val%27..._Ancient_Kings
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Additional question about Scarab Brooch ( http://www.wowhead.com/item=21625/scarab-brooch ) - does it work as intended (was nerfed only on cata)? 30 seconds of buff, with 1.2 casttime it is up to 25 shields, each is 2-3k. Is it activated only by the direct heals or some things like beacon/holy light glyph/JoL/Trauma proc active shields as well? Just wondering, maybe this thing could be handy on some encounters.

[Mercy]

What do you think about it's state guys - does it worth it, is it that good for hpala, or i would be disappointed after purchase?

Of course it's worth.

Actually almost every hpala near dala bank has it :D

Of course. The proc was powerful enough to where the Cataclysm Holydin mastery (and remained unchanged all the way up to Legion alpha/beta) was modeled after it.

Wiki clearly says that amount of absorb depends on heal amount (number) itself, not the amount "healed" (<100%hp). Checked the bugtracker - all reports were dissmissed. Why?
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Val%27..._Ancient_Kings

Wiki is not a 100% reliable source. Things can be outdated, explained insufficiently, etc.
Instead, for this specific case, refer to one of the many quotations/citation of explanations by Blizzard developers themselves. And in this specific case, Ghostcrawler who was the lead developer for World of Warcraft at the time.
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=94042

Additional question about Scarab Brooch ( http://www.wowhead.com/item=21625/scarab-brooch ) - does it work as intended (was nerfed only on cata)? 30 seconds of buff, with 1.2 casttime it is up to 25 shields, each is 2-3k. Is it activated only by the direct heals or some things like beacon/holy light glyph/JoL/Trauma proc active shields as well? Just wondering, maybe this thing could be handy on some encounters.

I cannot comment on whether it is nerfed or un-nerfed version, but it is a gimmick trinket. In many cases, it's not powerful enough to actually use on a serious raid encounter.

You'll most likely end up being disappointed.
Every single stat it has is lower than heroic mace. And yet only because it's legendary it costs 100 coins more.
What you heard about is right, and since no matter how you look at it, hpala is overhealing2000 class and your primary purpose is to keep tanks alive - which mostly means a lot of overhealing so the shields will generally be weaker if not useless.
I don't even remember the last time that I saw a hpala with it, that says a lot.

My friend that has it is using LK25hc mace instead of it as well.

You can address the overhealing issue, a lot of the time, by both not casting, and by paying attention to your FoL hots and Judgment CD (for haste proc & mana return). Emphasis on a lot of the time, not all the time as I recognize that spamming heals is necessary because sometimes you expect the tank to get gibbed, but you don't know exactly when it's going to happen. But you should also have a little bit of faith in your fellow healers and the tank themselves sometimes and pay attention to your other sources of healing. A Holydin should not be -just- a Holy Light-bot.

[dfangv6]

You'll be most likely going to switch valanyr with 284 LK weapon, diuring a fight. Since the mace itself has an internal cooldown of 45 seconds, as an hpala you will be spamming holy light very often.

Is it worth it? Yes. (Dmg prevention>Healing done)
Will you disappointed after purchase? Yes. IF you can heal the entire ICC25HC and RS25HC with just the 284 LK weapon. No. If other healers on your raid are not that reliable.

[Princessochka]

Wiki is not a 100% reliable source. Things can be outdated, explained insufficiently, etc.
Instead, for this specific case, refer to one of the many quotations/citation of explanations by Blizzard developers themselves. And in this specific case, Ghostcrawler who was the lead developer for World of Warcraft at the time.
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=94042

Thats why i linked wiki, cuz it quotes the exactly same message.

"But once the blessing is active, then all of your healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing."

Three men told me they were disappointed of valanyr. So once again, is that truth, that shield gains damage absorb only from actual healing (and doesn't from overhealing)? Can you confirm that?

I cannot comment on whether it is nerfed or un-nerfed version, but it is a gimmick trinket. In many cases, it's not powerful enough to actually use on a serious raid encounter..

One of the wowhead comments says this:
"One of the holy paladins on the US first Heroic Lich King 25 man kill wore this trinket along with Val'anyr."
Thats the reason why i got interested.

[densi77]

Three men told me they were disappointed of valanyr. So once again, is that truth, that shield gains damage absorb only from actual healing (and doesn't from overhealing)? Can you confirm that?

Yes only actual healing, and that is how it was intended to be.

[dfangv6]

Just to add more info
From September 2017 change logs,

Fixed Val'anyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings proccing from overhealing report #53844

It only procs on actual healing and only shields the player based on the actual healing.

But still, if you imagine judgement of light combined with valanyr proc, you provide a shield around 600 to the entire raid while it is proc. Very delicious if you asked me.

[Princessochka]

Yes only actual healing, and that is how it was intended to be.

Just to add more info
From September 2017 change logs,

Fixed Val'anyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings proccing from overhealing report #53844

It only procs on actual healing and only shields the player based on the actual healing.

But still, if you imagine judgement of light combined with valanyr proc, you provide a shield around 600 to the entire raid while it is proc. Very delicious if you asked me.

But mercy mentioned the blizzard developer post, and it clearly says that "only shields the player based on the actual healing" part is wrong. I see only one dismissed report and it wasn't upvoted much - why noone reports this? It seems a very huge issue, because it just removes 50%+ of valanyr absorbs.

Just think of it - it actually means that shield doesn't stack at all until it fades/used (because first shields prevent getting damage). OR to get some good absorb u need to keep your tank on very low hp.

[dfangv6]

Hi princess,

https://www.engadget.com/2009/05/04/valanyr-explained/
Here is a link that describes how valanyr works.

As you can see in this article, overhealing counts on the calculation on how strong is the shield.
For example, you gain the valanyr proc (blessing of ancient kings), your holy light heals the tank for 20,000 and 10,000 is overhealing.
The shield should be 15 percent of 20,000 not 15 percent of 10,000

I am also in the same shoes as you I am considering getting the mace. Fyi

[Princessochka]

Hi princess,

https://www.engadget.com/2009/05/04/valanyr-explained/
Here is a link that describes how valanyr works.

As you can see in this article, overhealing counts on the calculation on how strong is the shield.
For example, you gain the valanyr proc (blessing of ancient kings), your holy light heals the tank for 20,000 and 10,000 is overhealing.
The shield should be 15 percent of 20,000 not 15 percent of 10,000

I am also in the same shoes as you I am considering getting the mace. Fyi

Ya, but the reason i made this topic is because it seems on warmane it doesn't work from overhealing after blessing is proced oO

[dfangv6]

Yep, if it does not work with overhealing the value of the mace drops.
Additional evidence that overhealing should be counted on the calculation of shield's strength

https://fallingleavesandwings.wordpr...or-druids-too/

[Beanlord]

I have a dream... that one day people will stop spreading BS on the forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyJuNkgz2Zk

In case someone can't do basic math (5th/6th grade multiplication and subtraction?) the overhealing I did did go towards my shields.


Now to answer the OP's question. The mace is very much worth it. You'll use it across all encounters with the sole exception of VDW where you want a weapon with higher SP, haste and crit. The loss of stats on anyr itself is trivial compared to the comfort it brings the raid.

[Princessochka]

I have a dream... that one day people will stop spreading BS on the forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyJuNkgz2Zk

In case someone can't do basic math (5th/6th grade multiplication and subtraction?) the overhealing I did did go towards my shields.


Now to answer the OP's question. The mace is very much worth it. You'll use it across all encounters with the sole exception of VDW where you want a weapon with higher SP, haste and crit. The loss of stats on anyr itself is trivial compared to the comfort it brings the raid.

Thx alot Rifo! I know valanyr is op, just heard shields don't work from overhealing and was trying to confirm it.

But wait, if u have shield on yourself with 100% HP and continue healing yourself - is shield still building and stacking up to 20k damage absorb?

[Beanlord]

But wait, if u have shield on yourself with 100% HP and continue healing yourself - is shield still building and stacking up to 20k damage absorb?

Yes.

https://imgur.com/a/7ygxi