I don't understand Blackrock

[lqt1]

I have few simple questions about this realm:

1) Why 2s ladder is dominated by hpal/war with a win/loss close to 100% (bascially meaining they counter every possible setup existent)?
Considering there is no Smourne, no ARP cap, no 284 gear, how is warrior so popular and almost unbeatable, compared to icecrown where warrior can 1 shot you, but somehow you don't see them in ladder so often, in fact first hpal war is 300 played with 100 loss (pretty bad w/l compared to blackrock...why??)
2) How do hpalwar manage to win 100% times against ret/hunter, ele/destro, shp/mage, disc/hunter and other comps that IMHO are pretty much hard to beat as hpal war? Is there a new strategy that I am missing? Because I have hard time winning against these teams, at least on Icecrown. But on blackrock it seems nothing is countering hpalwar, not to mention almost every hpal runs with 2/3 sacred cleansing.
3) Finally, how can this rogue geared almost full pvp, have 500 agility (!!!) more than Buddhist (which is almost geared like me)? He has like 60% dodge... in fact I didn't land a single kidney the entire arena, or disarm, or whatever, and I lost. (armory: Shapez) What am I missing? Where did he gained all that dodge and critical? His stats are weird.

Please tell me somethign because I can't explain this stuff, I need some analysis from someone more expert than me. Thanks, appreciated

[Shematic]

Blackrock is old Arena Tournament, there are still a lot of skilled players.

[MaXiMuS54]

Because that comp is noob friendly. Hpala has plenty of get out of death cards and warrior has healing reduction. It'd be a more interesting server if it didn't have bauble of true blood imo

[lqt1]

I know this is old AT (I play since abysall wow TBC)..the point is, why is war so strong and almost without counter comps where on icecrown it has some huge boosts from smourne and 284 items but somehow doesnt reach multiple times top ranks with perfect win loss ratio? You get what I mean? I'm not complaining about warrior (weird, but this time it's not the case I swear), I just wondering how can a 264~ warrior be better than a full arp warrior, and on icecrown I saw good players aswell, its not like blackrock/at=good players, icecrown=bad players, there are good players in both realms so..

Also, what about the rogue? Can someone explain that to me? :o

[Shematic]

I basically mean, that all PvP warr/palas on Icecrown are total noobs and can't do anything even with top PvE items.

[Breakyaneckx]

the reason is because warrior paladin is very easy and effective to script with, same reason why elemental shamans are overrepresented in soloque, scripts are easily used and effective.

[Darwindeez]

If you put the same hpal/war on icecrown they will go to rank 1 with same ratio. The warrior simply are good + use some scripts/dll + play OP comp, that makes the unbeatable combo. Being on a server capped at 264 even make warriors stronger comparatively to other classes than on a 277/284 server where other classes scale well too.

[lqt1]

Well I spectated an hpal-war top rank, against a well famous disci + glad hunter (so both teams are good, they were at 2k6-2k8+), the fun fact is the war was tunneling 24/7 hunter, or the priest, didn't matter at all, no shield wall used, no disarm, no intervene on scatter, pala full fear/trap and warrior was never below 70% health (with aimed shot). Pala never oomed or bubble as far as I remember.
When I played warhpal on icecrown, i faced a glad priest+hunter (not sure if they are the same with different names, but they were good, and well known) and in 1 single scatter my warrior was almost dead, so basically every scatter/trap/fear/ was a potential kill for them, thus forcing me or my warrior some cooldowns. and play defensive, at least at some point. Things that didn't happen in that match I spectate.
The weird thing is as hpal, I didn't spend the entire arena jumping around randomly and throwing only holy shock because warrior was kinda immortal.

About scripts, I spectated the arena.. warrior was just doing hamstring, rend, some random charge, maybe switch defense+shield when healer in CC but I don't know what could be scripted, I mean that looked pretty legit to me he was just using his "rotation". What I don't understand is how he can tunnel mode every second without going defensive and throw some cooldowns..
And i still have to replay some matches against shp-mage or ret-hunter, specially shp-mage, as hpal when i was playing with war I lost like 90% of times even with perfect sacrifices/dispels/los against that comp. But maybe I just need to learn a different strategy, idk. I'm focused on other comps at the moment, I don't care much about hpalwar but I was just curious about the situation since it looked weird to me. Thansk for the replies tho

[Shamanaa]

It's a safe (and simple) comp. There comes a point where abilities do no scale well enough with the ilvl 264 gear that is available. It is almost mathimatically impossible to burst through 29-35k HP that these comps have if you consider that the only time you kill them is in a 6-10 second burst window.

simple example for the comps that you mentioned (ele/lock, hunter etc.):

pally eats cc for ~10 seconds which means you would have to deal 2.9k-3.5k damage per second to kill him. (even more because warrior gets 2% maximum HP reg / 1 sec for free)

even if you have enough damage (or you try to kill pally which usually has less HP) they can rotate their defensive cds.
Bauble of the True Blood is usable while silenced which is huge because it takes away 3-4 seconds worth of your CC destroying at least one setup.

Unless you play with a decent amount of PVE gear (which makes you much more vulnarable) it becomes impossible for your abilities to deal enough damage in this timeframe. 284 ilvl gear would rather buffs comps that play against wpal because PVE gear does not give additional stamina and it outvalues resil for wizzards.

The difference between 284 and 264 gear is 20 item lvl per item. That is even more than 245 and 264 for offsets which is only 19 item lvl so you are almost an entire season behind in damage that you COULD do while the HP pool stays the same (or even less).

Them using several exploits is not helping much either. Now the only constant way to beat them is to mana burn or play hyper aggressive.

Btw the rogue has 500 more agi because he logged out while his trinket procced (deaths verdict).

[truthwow1]

Warr/Hpaly is so strong because we don't have 3.3.5b anymore so FDK/Hpaly can not crush them.

[lqt1]

Thanks Shamanaa for the deep answer, very appreciated!

About the rogue agility that was kinda stupid, I didn't think about that but thanks again for the help! (In fact now his character has the same stats as mine so yeah mistery solved :p )

[esrd]

so if they are abusing scripts, why are they still free to play and not perma banned? it takes quite a while to gear up again

[sukacakers]

Warmane doesnt undrestand Blackrock and they hate eachother.

[Cowbroken]

Warr/Pal is barely countered on this server anymore. With the PVE gear cap it's harder for other comps to burst Warr/Pal down. Most comps that you would expect to counter them can now be outdamaged by warriors with a brain or certain gear setups/talents/tactics can be used to completely nullify the reason they were a counter. e.g. running full resil as the Warr vs Disc/Warr or Disc/Hunt so you can't die and the Disc ooms before you. The difference is there's no way for them to start counter gearing/talents vs you because Warr/Pal is just so broken when it counter plays.

The paladin has so much survivability, healing and mana regen that it's simply the best healer for 2's. Hpals are just able to stay full mana for entire matches while keeping their Warrior near enough invincible with sacred. When you start to go under pressure you have two sacs, bop, bubble, defensive wings. It's just broken.

Join that with Warriors sustained damage and high uptime due to not having to play defensive (Disc/Rdruid/Rsham + Warrs can't just sit on people like that unless they screw up), and high mobility with freedom and dispels. It just makes the Warrior barely peelable. Even at the start of the match as Disc a good Warrior will damage through your shields and get pressure on you before you can even get the first sacred off if they're good. At this point you're already behind on dispels on healing. You can't push out or in for fears/burns, and the enemy Hpala can just Plea to keep going.

There's a lot of misconception when it comes to Warrior damage. Thinking they NEED hacks to do the damage they do. As someone who has got Supreme and played at r1 in 2's and 3's as a Warrior, without hacks, I can tell you it's all about rotation and knowing how to keep damage up constantly as Hpala/Warr. Forget focus charges etc like with other healers, outdamaging people works better than that. Not saying people don't abuse hacks, but I had to make this clear.

I would argue that Hpala/Warr is the most played comp on the server and that because of this people have learned the most cheesy ways to abuse how cheesy and forgiving the comp is.

As for Icecrown vs Blackrock players. Look, on Icecrown you level a char, you gear them, you get enchants, jc, PVEing in between. You have one team with one partner, you play games for cap and then you try to push rating, if you're high rated you play a little more to stay in your place on the leaderboard. In other words, you're only in arena for a few hours a day.

People on Blackrock can played full WF for years, they've played at high rating spam queueing all day and night. They can make 10 different alts with 10 different partners and just never stop playing, because it's an arena server. They've been doing this against the best PVPers to ever play WoW. Who do you think is going to have better players? Hell, even the Molten 3's tournaments were won by Blackrock players.

TLDR: most overpowered most overplayed most forgiving comp in the game is good

[lqt1]

Good reply, thanks for your sharing!