Hello!Need some explanation for enginering benefits for furry warrior.In the past there was BS+JC,recently im seeing,enginering replaced blacksimithing,and ppl that i asked said its bis,but couldnt explain why.So please explain me why should i switch to enginering or i shouldnt.Thank you!
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Member
Fury + enginering
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Member
It's mainly because haste on use on gloves, and nitro boots. Haste proc timed with cds/trinkets gives nice amount of dps. And nitro boots help in fights where you have to move occasionally - it's easier to stay alive and in range to dps boss with them.
The dps difference between those two possibilities are minimal, you don't have to change.
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Member
Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting will always be the superior professions when it comes to the raw amount of stats you get from them.
Engineering's dps stats aren't the strongest, but it provides you with Nitro Boots which have tremendous impact on your performance. Not only it gives you amazing mobility, but it also reduces your downtime on the boss greatly.
To put it simply, it prevents wipes and minimizes dps loss, making Engineering very attractive for competitive end-game raiding.
Think of it as a "Get out of jail for free" card that you can use 1-3 times per fight.Edited: January 8, 2018
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Member
Tbh, engineering has limited uses as warr, since you have intervene, intercept and heroic fury for mobility nitro boots become less needed, and haste isn't that good of a stat. If you lack ARP, i would keep JC+BS otherwise i think tailoring cloak enchant can be really good (especially when it lines up with other CDs and trinkets)
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Member
The truly relevant fights (again in competitive end-game raiding) are Lich King and Halion 25H, and in these fights there are certain mechanics you can't Intercept/Intervene out of. That said, there's still plenty of other bosses where you'd prefer having the Boots once you realize how much downtime certain events cause you.
•Defiles. You can't intervene your way out of a defile if you're all stacked together for it. Especially that 3rd defile that occurs right as the Val'kyr spawn. Placing that defile away and fast is crucial. Having Boots makes it trivial to place it and return to the boss, without even triggering a GCD. Nobody likes to bathe in a puddle of pure darkness that was placed right under Lich King.
•Awkward Necrotic Plagues. The Shambling Horror might be LoS-ing you behind a pillar, your Intercept and Heroic Fury are on cooldown. You can't get there in time, so you either die or the Plague has to be dispelled off you. Either way, you've lost Necrotic and potentially 1 person too.
•Soul Consumption/Fiery Combustion. These are another set of debuffs you can't intervene/intercept your way out of. Yes you can intervene/intercept back into the fight once you put them, but that's not important. Just like Defiles, the important thing is where and how long it takes you to place them properly, not how you readjust afterwards.
Then there's always mishaps. Lich King enrages, you can taunt and kite with Nitro Boots, instead of watching the raid die one by one. You get aggro on adds, you get Tail Swiped and the cutters are dreadfully close to you, the list goes on.
What I'm getting at, again, is that the potential to save a raid from wiping simply outweighs the personal dps Engineering costs you. This is the reason you see most players in end-game guilds run Engineering + Something as their professions. Personally I'd say it's a compromise that's well worth it.
Though it also depends on personal skill and class prowess, I'm not a fan of gambling game mechanics because we're all human and bound to make mistakes.Edited: January 8, 2018
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Member
You are not sacrificing dps. Haste on use is really, really good @bis gear (you are arp capped and crit soft capped with a ton of AP, so its becomes the best way how to increase your dps) - its a lot of haste on a tiny cd. Extra ap from tailoring is worse. Use Landsoul spreadsheets/simulations - I believe that eng pulls ahead even in static fight dps. Extra mobility is just icing on a cake.
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Member
End-game guilds use Engineering because it is the best by far for most classes dd or support. Haste buff is the biggest dmg buff for capped dds and it is more situational useable than a static stat improvement. nitro is simply a bonus but not the reason for Engineering, it is used to get back faster to do more dmg rather than preventing a wipe because one failed heavily.
All the situations you counted are simply and more effectiv solved by proper tactic and movement. If Defiles or Necrotic Plagues is a problem, problem is not solved by nitro but by changing tactic. Nitro is there for someone who is not going to fail with Defiles or Necrotic Plagues and uses the extra button to get back faster for that 1% dps improvement.
Talking about LK, very first kills were made by using Engineering, but the key item were bombs, not haste gloves or nitro.
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Forum Veteran
You forgot that those engineering enchants provide stats too. 23 agility/ 27 spellpower on cloak, 24 cit rating on boots in addition to all that was mentioned. Main reason - Nitro Boosts - you wont understand how useful they are until you have them and, once you have them, you will not switch back to other profession. Not only on LK/Halion. Tough it's not requirement by any means, it makes life easier. Don't forget about Jeeves, Mailbox, Gnomish Knife resurrect and Wormhole generator, all great convenience tools.
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Member
A bit late to the thread, but:
1) A lot of the earlier ICC 25hc fights last some kind of duration like ~2:20-ish. This is a fight duration that plays out nicely for Engineers due to the resulting unusually high uptime of the haste buff from a fight duration like that.
2) Haste is actually a pretty damn terrific stat for Fury Warriors. This is especially more so true during Bloodlust, or when you have the Troll racial popped. Engineering's on-use effect has greater synergistic interaction with these buffs than smaller amounts of static stats that are always just sitting on you.
3) In a similiar vein to the above point, the on-use Haste effect becomes particularly powerful when you happen to be cleaving numerous enemies. This is another situation where you benefit more from being able to pop an on-use effect during an appropriate window of the fight.
4) In addition to all the immense DPS benefits, there's also the remarkably life-saving nitro boosts. If you do mess up, and you are gonna mess up at some point, the nitro boosts are a great way to bail yourself out of an ugly situation. Being able to move at 250% speed for 5 seconds is one of the most overpowered things any profession has to offer you. I consider this mandatory for myself to have because I play on an average latency of 300-350ms, and so the boosts make a major impact on things like Defile. The fact that Eng provides you a tool so perfectly suited to countering an ability of the most difficult boss in the expansion is itself a convincing enough selling point even if its DPS benefits were non-existent.
You're being pedantic. It's perfectly within reason to suggest that Nitro Boosts are for both people who want to use them to maximize uptime, as well as for those who happen to mess up one of the aforementioned mechanics.
Yep, true. Considering the context of the thread, I'd just add that the 23 haste enchant (or was it 22 haste?) is better for you than any cloak enchant engineering has to offer you as a Fury Warrior. Not that you were suggesting to use the 23 agi.Edited: February 4, 2018
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Member
Both Defiles or Necrotic Plagues are not the situations where you fail and then solve everything with nitro boost. At the point where you realised you failed, it is usually to late for nitro anyway.
- You have to prepare before Defile or you will missplace it even with nitro, in worst case you stay in group until defile is placed.
- If you miss that you got Necrotic Plagues, you will be very lucky to solve that with nitro after the raid is shouting at you to move.
Nitro is very good to make things even saver if you follow tactic and dont mess up in the first place.
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Wind of Northrend
Actualy Nitro Boots can save u and the raid from Defile, u just need to attack the Boss/Valks from the sides.
As for Necrotic, if u dont notice a debuff on u that lasts 5sec before its too late, than u are just bad (even tho u can use Intercept, Nitro Boots are still awesome save just in case here aswell).
Also, the fact that u have such a mobility boost lets u play a bit more greedy, which will alow u to have more uptime DPSing the target while others have to spread for example...
Overall if u plan to PvE only JC + Engi is the way to go, mainly cos of Nitro Boots, not on Warrior only, but on any other class (especialy melee).
If u plan on doing arenas also, JC + BS might be better.
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Member
Let's say you fail with Defile so badly that by the time you notice it and you react, you only get 0.5 seconds of movement left before the server snapshots your position and places a defile there. If you walked at regular speed, you'd only be able to move 3.5 yards (player baseline running speed is 7 yards/second). With Nitro Boosts, that would become 250%*3.5 = 8.75 yards. That is well more than Defile's radius, so assuming you ran to an appropriate spot, you stand a good chance of placing a halfway decent Defile that ends up not hitting anyone.
Seeing players turn around what would otherwise be very dangerous defiles with Engineering is something that happens often enough. More than that, you're also gonna see Defile wipes that might've been saved had the person with Defile been an Engineer.
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Member
0.5 seconds is not much, if you fail defile you were not ready to use nitro either. Even if you are very fast at reacting to something that cought you off guard, it takes you a bit to activate nitro. This works if you are aware of Defile and you are ready to use nitro, but but beeing in full dps mode you will delay nitro. With server delay its more likely that defile is placed in that moment when you use nitro.
For most guilds defile is a little chaos phase and not a controled phase where the whole raid moves the right way to avoid defile.
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Member
The 0.5 secs used in my example was the time it took for you to have reacted and activated the Nitro Boosts. I can't imagine most players being any slower than that.
I play with much higher average latency than anyone I know, save for one person, and that hasn't been my experience with Nitro Boosts and Defile placement. I've had my tunnel vision moments too, and every time it was the nitros that saved the raid. It mitigates a sure raid-wiper into a Defile that's just inconveniently placed. So long as your Nitro Boosts are assigned a keybind you can hint instantly and your reaction time isn't unusually slow, it should be able to help a lot. When it comes to Defile, it's always better to have it than not.
Yes, people are often slow to account for the Defile placer's position, but that's exactly why it's beneficial to increase the efficiency with which the Defilee is able to drop an appropriate Defile. The better he's able to do it, the less your raid needs to worry about everyone else moving out of the way. Nitro Boosts are like the second best tool to get that job done, next to things like Blink and a well-timed Disengage.
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Member
I can see your point and you're right. Someone who's not even looking out for Necrotic/Defile will not be saved by Nitro Boots, most of the times.
But I believe the main topic of the thread was to highlight the benefits of Engineering and compare them to Blacksmithing. So the wipe-saving potential of Nitro Boots in that context is undeniable. Whether people make use of it or not, that's on them.
Since I feel this is getting redundant, I'll put the rest of the comment in a spoiler:
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