I like this guy. Straightforward, no BS-free posts.
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Banned
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Banned
Safeguard intercepts one hit from the boss and gives the other tank 30% damage reduction for 6 seconds, the warrior gets no damage reduction so he takes 1 full hit. I can see a warrior dying to this, especially if they're not at full hp when they intervene.
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Member
1.Safeguard is a talent not ability.
If you gives him 30% damage reduction this shot from intervene would be not so powerful to you man...
You give damage reduction immediately so next hit will be reduced to you,at least it should be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8vCwSz2Co look at lk..Edited: January 30, 2018
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Banned
I never said it was an ability on its own, it's an upgrade to Intervene, which is an ability. You either don't understand how Intervene works or didn't understand what Gnimo said, or both. In his case a warrior offtank intervened the main tank to give him Safeguard, which caused the offtank warrior to take a full Soul Reaper hit instead of the main tank and die.
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Member
I would contend that for a tank to necessitate particular care and attention on your raid's part - whereas some other tank might not only afford your raid a lot more leeway, but would also work out even better if your raid actually devoted the same focus to his survival - is a reasonable definition of unsuitability.
I don't think anyone is legitimately arguing that Protection Warriors literally can't be used on 25-man heroic LK. This is clearly objectively false; the 3rd kill ever of the encounter was achieved with a Prot Warrior in the raid. Rather, the sentiment is just that Prot Warriors are the least suited to the encounter of the other tanks available. Players and guilds tend to shun Prot Warriors when it comes to this encounter in the interest of maximizing their odds of success.
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Member
Look at the video the guy intervened his mt many times it took max 40% of his health and he is average geared I will say that again it's almost not possible ,intervene hit is redirected to you I know it but it does not work that this hit will hit you more than your buddy....
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=3411/intervene#comments there are some comments about intervening soul reaper with safeguard nobody say "care you may die because of it " xD.
Also I'm pretty sure you can pop block or bloodrage/trinket? if you are not full health and want to intervene, intervening with idk 50% health is not so smart...Edited: January 30, 2018
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Banned
Your video is 10 man, where the damage is significantly lower. Not only that but you clearly see the warrior intervening after the initial Soul Reaper hit every time, not right before it like in Gnimo's case. Safeguard only works on your target and Intervene makes you take one hit instead of your target, which means you wont get 30% reduced damage because that's a buff your target has, not you. What is so hard for you to grasp here?
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Member
How much more,double ? He did at least 1 intervene before soul reaper for sure in that video and it was 50% of his health. I'm pretty sure you can block this hit also or absorb with bloodrage/trinket.What's a problem ? Show me a full health prot war (70k +hp) with dpriest absorb on him dying on lk from intervene please lmao.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8vCwSz2Co 44:33 did intervene before soul reaper >> lk is casting>> next melee soul reaper hit >> did about 50% hp(btw that was the hardest hit he get and he did intervene before soul reaper about 3 times in that fight ...)? okay. He didnt pop block or bloodrage/trinket either.
Even if soul reaper hits double damage on 25 hc (I hope it's not that significant difference...)MT can have a cancelaura intervene and still got a safeguard damage reduce just know when OT war intervene and cancel intervene status.
Feral tank with warrior giving him safeguard is pretty good imo also war can stuns valkyrs very easily.Edited: January 30, 2018
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Banned
Get your numbers straight first. Warrior goes from 72k to 27k or 62% of his hp gone, in 10 man. Damn, it sure is impossible for a warrior to ever die in 25 man HC to even more Soul Reaper damage + some badly timed random damage, right? No. Of course proper use of cds and cancelaura are going to reduce the risk of that happening but Gnimo never said it happened often, just that it's possible and he saw it happen once. Meanwhile you're arguing that it can never happen, which is just flat out wrong. You also had some weird understanding of how Safeguard/intervene works where you assumed the warrior also gets damage reduction, which was also wrong.
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Member
Well was pretty sure it's working other way but still this can be blocked,dodged,parried absorbed and is still reduced by defensive stance you should use small cds like bloodrage/trinket/block before doing it since you dont need to tank lich king until mt die because of safeguard,also most likely if this killed warrior would propably killed the main tank too...(unless he's paladin^^) I really don't think it would hit for 70k + like that seems like madness.
Edited: January 30, 2018
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Wind of Northrend
Il just add that the Warrior tank that died, is one of the best tanks ive met in this game.
He was not expecting it probably, but my point is that its posible and shows how weak warrior tank can be.
One big thing u guys, the once saying warrior tank is good, are forgeting.
Every time u say: Warrior tank is doable, IF u just work ur raid towards it (like that crap for main tank having to cancel intervene). If u have to put in some extra effort for a tank to work, well sorry to tell u but, that tank is bad.
P.S. discussing that a Warrior has mathematical chances to die while taking a hit while not tanking the actual boss while the tank doing it survives (which happened in the case i saw, and the main tank didnt even have full saveguard, aka 1/2) does say a lot about the class and its ability to do what is suposed to be done, if u are objective.
Posible success, does not mean its the best choice, especialy if u have better options available, aka other and better equiped tanks for the job.
Edit: Shockwave has to be set up, aka Valks have to be in cone infront of u.
Holy Wrath is also a thing and aoe all directions stun. 4 or 3 sec wont make any diference since u should always asign HoJs before aoe stuns...
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Member
How much HP did he had when intervened ? Did he pop anything that I did mention (shield block,bloodrage,trinket ?)Had absorb on him from dpriest like 99% propably. Do you have video from this ? Like for me it's possible if he had about 50% hp and didn't use anything.
And it's also possible bcs soul reaper initial hit damage is shadow damage so warrior armor didn't reduce this. It shouldn't happen for normal melee lich king attack.
I'm not saying warrior is better as a tank but he is OK (at least for most icc bosses to even main tank) but giving a tank option to solo tank lk is great - feral have a lot of hp giving him 30% reduce damage on every soul reaper is huge when he dies(but he shouldn't with that) warrior can tank lk with swall /last stand.Edited: January 30, 2018
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Wind of Northrend
On 10m tank droped to 38%, idk how a oneshot is not posible on 25m in ur head...
Also, my point was comparison of Intervene and HoSac, where war can die while paladin cant. On top of it all, usong a self CD while doing a suportive CD is a bad thing if u ask me, dont u think?
Also, noone said its not OK, beeing ABLE TO DO IT, IS OK. We are just saying warr has nothing special to offer amd there are better options for both MT and OT.
I really sont understand why is that a problem to understand...
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Banned
Keep it simple guys. Everyone knows that PROT warrior is an OK tank, but all other are better. That doesn’t mean he’s bad but if you’re going to do hardcore raids and expect top performance you will want DK/ProtPally/Feral in the mix before warrior - it’s just how it’s made!
Similar thing is that everyone wants Boomkin in the raid instead of Feral dps(if forced to choose) but that doesn’t mean Feral is bad.
That’s how it is.
P.S. I really believe prot warr can tank %90 of WOTLK bosses with no significant difference when compared to other tanks.
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Member
Small cds like bloodrage,trinket,shield block ? Well I wouldn't tell that is super important also you will not die if you dont intervene before initial hit because like I said initial soul reaper damage is shadow so that's a reason of this big hit for a warrior. Yep but paladin HoSac have 2 min cd right ? Divine sacri 2 min too or 3 ? Intervene is 30 seconds...
When you will be needed to take lich king you will shield wall or use last stand on soul reaper anyway.
