Rotating 2 tanks while OT is helping the MT is better than relying on 1 to MT and other to OT only. Also, paladin is a better choice for both p1 MTing and Shamblings, and also for Frostmourne Chamber and Soaking Spirits and for dispeling both plague and raging silence.
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Wind of Northrend
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Member
Why rotating is better if you have feral that have the most HP from all tanks and he gets 30% reduce damage on all reapers (and healers need to spam 1 tank)? Yea with dispels I can agree because healer or dps dont need to do this. For shamblings I will disagree warrior have better stuns,well dont have ardent but if you know what are you doing you shouldn't die.For MT pala is definitely better.
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Wind of Northrend
Its never that simple.
SR cd 30sec, intervene cd 30sec, best combo ever!
Its not.
People would be using that 24/7 if it wer.
Top players know what they are doing 99% of the time, in that 1% of time they die cos of bad RNG.
Argent will help u with that, while Warrior will die and u will wipe most likely.
That is why its better to be safe than sorry.
YES, u CAN tank Shamblings without dieing 99% of the time, but that one time u will die where paladin wont (dont come bringing in a CR is that situation since u dont know if u are going to have it).
Everything is nice and dandy in perfect world, sadly, that kind of world does not exist.
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Member
Well that's actually a good combo w/e you are thinking (nice irony).
I just wanted to point that war + feral tanking lk 25 hc can be very nice,and main problem for warrior is tanking lich king / sindragosa on heroic in icc.
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Member
almost 9 pages of circlejerking this topic xd
why are you still on about this, really? pretty sure the actual topic of the thread was settled around page 1 :)
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Banned
But it is very good. I feel like the only reason Soul Reaper happens every 30 secs is because of Safeguard. It's like they designed that ability specifically to give Prot warriors a niche in that fight. The way I see it, Prot warriors have the ability to rotate Soul Reapers without actually swapping the healer's target, which is very nice for eliminating reaction time from the equation. Both druids and DKs can infinitely rotate their 1 min cd and T104p, basically giving them Shield Wall for every Soul Reaper and allowing them to save their stronger cds for emergency situations. Yes, tanks can also solo tank without a Prot warrior but they wont have as much freedom with their cds and anything that's not a DK will probably have to ask for external cds from healers at some point.
I don't know, why are your 2 replies in this thread so worthless and devoid of content? Some questions are better left unanswered, much like you.
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Wind of Northrend
Im not saying its bad, it does look tempting.
But i really dont know why are people playing without it if its that awesome tbh...
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Member
If we're talking 7-8 Safeguard uses over the course of a fight, your MT's threat reduction adds up and becomes a substantial factor. If nothing else, you might end up forcing your rogues to focus TotT on the MT instead of on each other.
The 6 second duration of the buff is also another consideration. You're going to have to choose between whether you want to use it on the initial Shadowstrike + the Shadow DoT tick 5 seconds later, or on the DoT tick + the 5 seconds of LK meleeing twice as fast thereafter (I'd go with the latter because you can reduce every other Shadowstrike hit with the Sindy trink, as well as various other Shadow resistance effects). From the time the Reaper's initial hit goes off to the time his melee haste buff drops is a 10 second window. Keeping the LK on the MT the whole time might present some kind of trouble if all you do is supply Safeguard procs in place of taunting.Edited: January 31, 2018
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Member
You obviously can taunt when it will be needed to reset aggro and take soul reaper on shield wall(can get swall glyph so you can taunt after 2 minutes again, shouldn't be a problem ?) /last stand with enraged regen(also can have glyph for lower cooldown for lk).Also in "frostmourne" you have time at the beginning to intervene one dps to reduce aggro I think.Hunters should give md anyway,it's a good idea to intervene a mage on transition phase because they are usually still dpsing lk.
Also dont need to have for example barkskin + survival instinc + hos + intervene with safeguard(that's propably too much cds) on the tank if you know what I mean.Edited: January 31, 2018
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Banned
Or you can just have a DK main tank and not care at all.
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Member
#showtooltip
/cancelaura intervene
/cast taunt
/cast hand of reckoning
/cast dark command
/cast growl
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Banned
This is terrible. Just use cancelaura, don't bind taunts to it. You're just setting yourself up for fail with this macro.
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Member
Well it would still face the same setback. I doubt the single-target sustained TPS lead of DKs, if it exists, is significant enough that aggro would suddenly cease to be a factor in a situation where you get intervened repeatedly. There were simcraft TPS comparison charts but those seem difficult to dig out from wherever they've been buried.
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Banned
"If it exists", wew. Maybe when any other tank can come even close to producing 60k+ threat with one spammable ability, we'll have room for doubt. As it is currently, there's nothing in this game that can pull threat from an equally geared DK in full threat rotation. That warrior can intervene you all day.
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Member
I was curious enough to do a test on that with a friend, since that's the next best thing to simcraft charts. We took a (roughly) max-TPS specced Bear and Blood DK to Patchwerk 10 man for a threat race, with a Holy Pally keeping us up.
The DK provided 20% melee haste, 10% AP, and Horn of Winter, whereas the Bear provided MotW, Mangle for himself, and 5% melee crit. The Holy Pally Gbom'd both of them, and the 8% Kings drums were used.
Overall, the main things we were missing were:
1) 20% Armor Reduction, Savage Combat, Curse of Elements, Sanctified Retribution, Heart of the Crusader. The former two amount to something like 12-13% more physical damage, so between those two and Curse of Ele both tanks have their damage reduced across the board by almost 13%. Technically Bear threat is reduced slightly less by this due to Lacerate's bleed not needing the Armor reduction buff, and due to how some of their inherent bonus threat amounts work.
2) 3% minor Haste, and BL, the loss of which hurt the Bear more due to how Maul works.
3) 5% spell crit, 5% spell crit debuff, 3% spell hit chance, and Crypt Fever, the loss of which hurt the DK more, even if he had 5/5 Killing Machine.
So in terms of the buffs we missed, the DK was set back more, but not nearly by any kind of significant margin. And the results were more or less in line with what you'd expect. The DK established an early and really high threat lead initially, but the Bear would catch up over time (this took about 1 min 30 seconds) and finish either right on par with the DK, or with slightly more threat than him. This happened both times we did the threat race. Each race lasted 6 mins, because that's when the enrage killed us.
Some other notes:
- The Bear wasn't using Demo Roar so as to take more damage and maximize his rage income, which resulted in saving 1 gcd every 30 or so seconds and being able to use it for threat.
- The DK was using Hysteria on himself since it was a threat race, something which he wouldn't have done in an actual raid.
- The DK's rotation was executed with maximizing threat in mind, so he used the absolute bare minimum amount of Death Strikes.
- The bear was specced 3/3 Improved Mangle and had Mangle glyphed, things he likely wouldn't have in a raid.
- The boss' 0.9 swing speed, as well as the lack of the 20% dodge debuff, meant that Rune Strike had significantly higher availability uptime for the DK than it would on something like LoD.
Bringing all this back to the point about Warrior off-tanks and Safeguard usage, it stands to reason that you should continue to be mindful of threat as a potential issue even if you're a DK tank. Ultimately, even an Unholy or Frost tank isn't invincible to threat ever presenting an issue if he's spammed with -10% threat reduction every reaper.
