Very well
First of all get this macro:
#showtooltip
/cast Judgement of Light
/startattack
Now, since the OP said he has or will have valanyr, you want your judgement of light on the boss at all times because when valanyr procs, judgement heals also make shields on the raid. Its not priority so dont stop healing just to use judgement. Also the starttatack will make sure that you are always auto attacking the boss, this means that you have to
1- Always stand next to the boss (it is possible in every single ICC boss)
2-Heal the raid with mouse over using some kind of raid frames (Grid2, Healbot, etc)
So what you do is stand next to the boss, target it, hit macro and just heal the raid. With melee haste from shamans or frost dks you will melee the boss a lot this getting lots of mana.
There are moments when you must spam heal non stop because of increased raid damage and that is ok, you should have enough mana before that happens so you can spam without worrying about going oom. The idea is to reduce overhealing as much as possible and it can be done if you are not spaming holy light 100% of the fight, it takes skill but its not impossible.
Now, bad paladins will say "well I can just use divine plea with wings and divine illumination to get mana" but then you would be wasting 2 awsome cooldowns just to get some mana back. The moment you learn how to not use divine plea, you will become 10 times better at hpala.
But not everything is perfect, sometimes you have a bad raid comp, or just bad healers that you have to carry so your mana starts going down, this is when you have to learn to use your cooldowns properly. Use Arcane torrent if you are a blood elf, Divine illumination with meteorite crystal and stuff like that.
Should never use divine plea while healing, only on the downtimes like sindy flying away, LKhc transiton, right before LK sucks everyone into frostmourne and maybe bql moving to the center, but be sure to dispell it when you are going to start healing.
Where to stand as hpala?
Marrowgar: huge melee box you can melee him all the time basically
LadyDW: you can melee here all ph1 and you should have enough mana for ph2 if you dont wanna stand next to here during that ph, but you could still do it, just eb careful when mind control is coming
Gunship: Melee the adds in your ship, put beacon on the jumping tank since it has 60yd range
DBS: you can be next to boss no problem, the only threat would be the first second beasts spawn you might aggro 1 but they will lose aggro once the dps starts killing them
Festergut: stand around tank so you can still get the spore buff, be careful for malleable goo!
Rotface: so easy you can stand next to the boss all fight and bubble when explosion comes if you dont wanna move
PP: Follow the boss around when tank is movng him, just be careful for the choking gas spawns
BPC: this one is a little tricky, I usually go next to keleseth from the begginig so I dont have problems with the vortex. You can try to use judgement on the active boss and then switch back to auto attack keleseth or just dont change targets at all and focus on healing.
BQL: stand at the side of here, almost close to the tanks to avoid the aoe dmg melee dps take, be careful if you are going to use bubble when you get flames because it will spawnn all the flames in same spot and you dont want that close to the tanks, run away a ittle and bubble if you want or just do the normal thing and run along the wall
Sindy: huge melee box just dont go to uch to the back so you dont get tail smashed. You can use divine plea during air phase if needed but you can also just auto attack the tombs. On last phase you should have enough mana to cast without hitting the boss but also you can hit the tombs while hiding, just make sure you are out of Sindys LoS but not the tanks LoS
LK: stand with the melee group behind LK all the time, you move with them for shadow traps and refresh judgement and beacon when Lk is casting his skills, because you know he doesnt attack tank when casting. Use divine illumination and maybe meteorite when LK is around 78% to compensate for the extra dmg. on the tank. If low on mana, use divine plea while on transition and also hit the raging spirits. Ph2 will test your skills a lot. learn when to use wings or divine illumination, always use arcane torrent and follow LK when tank is moving him, sometimes you will have to stand still to spam heals on the tank because soul reaper or whatever and thats when you use your cds so you dont have to use more mana than needed. On last ph, you can use divine plea right before LK starts dragging every1 inside frostmourne since it takes around 4 seconds, just make sure you dispell it after you are inside.
I hope I didnt left anything out. I never stated that mp5 is the devil and that you should avoid it, but getting solace because mana is such a waste when you can have better trinkets that will increase your healing during the raid. Do not underestimate how much mana you cn get off seal of wisdom, everytime it procs you get 4% of your total mana back, at the moment I wrote this post I had 37834k mana unbuffed outside of ICC, my holy light cost is1102 with libram of renewal and glyph of seal of wisdom. Procs from seal of wisdom would give me 1513 mana back, thats more than the cost of holy light already so thats how you get to keep a lot of mana even while spaming heals a lot, also with melee haste buff you will hit the boss a lot faster than the 1.80 attack speed from valanyr. I understand that seal doesnt proc always and that you dont hit boss everytime you cast, but you also have your illumination talent to compensate for the moments you arent hitting anything.
I hope this helps, if you still have questions, PM me ingame Varynnar Horde icecrown. You are more than welcome to keep using solace if you think all I just wrote is poor :P
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Member
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Field Medic Moderator
Seal of Wisdom is definitely a powerful tool, but it's not one that is feasible in every circumstance. There is a situation for everything. Even so, Solace is a very powerful regen tool. The only thing that Seal of Wisdom changes is whether you need the regen tool. It does not make Solace any lesser than what it is. It only makes intellect trinkets better, but Meteorite Crystal is currently not worth replacing Solace, and this is taking Seal of Wisdom into account. Perhaps when the trinket is fixed.
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Member
I know how Meteorite works and all, and that intellect is huge, also that I wouldn't need this mana regen so much, but my question is since I have val'anyr won't the extra SP from Solace actually increase the amount of absords by val'anyr and sacred shield (Considering I obviously run dguardian spec as well).Also the full time mana regen from Solace is nice, my paladin is near bis, and I believe solace is actually a strong trinket, hence why I wonder if it would outperform.I know on most fights I can run even without trinkets, but I'm talking about meaningful fights like LK, where actual mana control is needed.
I also forgot to mention I do mele DPS+Shield of Righteousness whenever I feel I could use more mana.Edited: January 19, 2018
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Member
More Spell Power is always equal to more absorbing by Valanyr or Sacred Shield. The point of additional Spell Power for Holy Paladin is not only about to boost amount of Holy Light (which actually will be mostly overheal) but also the healing done by your Glyph of Holy Light which mostly will be your rank 1 or 2 together with healing by JoL on most AOE fights like PP, BQL or Sindragosa. Also Spell Power will boost your Holy Shock (and next to it FoL in case your Holy Shock crits) for some situations when you have to move while tank or some raid member are getting big spike damage. Also in situation of chilling when you can turn to FoL spamm but still there is a risk that someone might take some spike damage. For Lich King and especially the heroic version of the encounter, additional Spell Power always will help in keeping tank alive. Of course mostly this additional spell power will be overheal but the point is to prevent tank's death in some centair situations in huge and several spike hits by Lich King due to parry-haste or in situation of Soul Reaper because purely logical the bigger amount of Holy Light always can give more time in the face of one additional hit by Lich King before tank to die. But still.... there are many ways to play Holy Paladin. I've seen very successful Holy Paladins playing on full haste setup and using Valanyrs. It's just about your personal estimate. Actually no one can tell you which is better and which is best because it's about how you feel the class and the gameplay with it. Don't forget that primary job of Holy Paladin is to keep tanks alive. There is no better stats for this than Spell Power and Haste Raiting. And although Critical Raiting plays big role in this job, it's mostly help in mana return for Holy Paladin cause anyway... critical is RNG and even if you have huge amount of Critical you still can do not crit in centair situations of double 50k hit by Lich King. In general Holy Paladin is easy class to learn but to master, you need to have some sense of incoming damage and how to deal with it using all inventory of CDs which paladin has and good feeling for timing and sync of your spells and abilities. On HaixzElder I can just tell that I've never read more controversial commentary and although a lot of the things typed by him are correct and some are about discussion he is still contradicting himself. Just try to play in progressive realm in ICC25HC with all raid 5k - 5.5k and try NEVER to use Divine Plea in combination with another CD. It's just to make some math analysis of every individual encounter and how much performance you will lose if people follow your "guide" on 100%. If you are good player the game should teach you never to say "NEVER". HF :).
Edited: January 19, 2018
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Member
In a fight like LoD if you want a lot of regen the best option is Meteor (undisputedly the best regen trink) and Solace heroic. Talisman falls short of Solace if a fight gets sufficiently long and LoD is such a fight.
There's little point to you wasting GCDs to dps.
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Field Medic Moderator
Shield of the Righteous costs mana, so it's not something you should use to get mana. Also, don't consider auto-attacking as "dpsing". Instead, think of it as a mana regen mechanic and nothing more.
SP is nice for Valanyr, but it's not really something you should overly concern yourself with if mana is a real concern. I've always personally treated Solace as a "half and half" trinket, as in half throughput and half regen value. I almost never go for double full regen trinkets. Meteorite Crystal is a full regen trinket, whereas the EoT trinket is not. The EoT trinket in particular, while nice for the intellect, should be treated as primarily a tool for another healing CD.
Honestly, it comes down to how you play, how much heals you need to put out, and how efficient you are with your mana. If you're hurting for mana on a fight, such as LK as you mentioned, then yes - Meteorite Crystal and Solace are very solid choices. Not necessarily the best choices, but solid ones nonetheless. If you're not hurting so much for mana and can get away with not using trinkets like Meteorite Crystal, then you should do so. I replace the Meteorite Crystal first, as it is less useful in my personal playstyle (my mana efficiency is good and use of Seal of Wisdom and Divine Plea are low). Most commonly, I use Solace/EoT trinket. Solace for the SP, for reasons that I've previously discussed, and then the EoT trinket for the SP CD. Sometimes I've even been known to use Abacus or GTS, which I think I've also previously mentioned in other posts. Ultimately, it comes down to what your spell usage is, how much damage your group is taking, and how efficient you are with your healing targets.
Explaining it down to specifics is rather kinda difficult. Trinkets like Meteorite Crystal are amazing mathematically, but they aren't always good for reasons that aren't really tangible on paper. The best way I've seen this sort of thing described is like this;
DPS is mathematics/arithmetic.
Tanking is science.
Healing is art.
The best recommendation I can make for you is to obtain all of the desirable trinkets and test out which ones work best for you in certain situations and on specific boss encounters. (This line can be treated as a TLDR.)
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Field Medic Moderator
Glyph of Holy Light is actually a good point to bring up on the SP part of the conversation. It's definitely not something that should be overlooked (like I did). I'd also like to remind that Judgment of Light doesn't scale with SP, as to avoid confusion. It should be used by whichever Paladin in the raid has the most points in Divinity (usually the Holydin, but not always), since it does scale with such talents. If it currently does scale with SP, then my apologies, however that would be a bug.
On the topic of haste-built Holydins, I've also seen a haste-built Holydin heal LoD with a Thunderfury as their weapon. (People who have been around Icecrown or the old Ragnaros realm may know who I'm talking about.)
The rest, I'll say that what you had to say is solid.
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Member
Hello again, recently I did some ToC25nm pug. The dmg here doesnt compare to ICC25hc of course, but its a decent way to show you the magic of seal of wisdom since there are no trash mobs to inflante Skada, its just a small example.
The first is total absorbs and healing for the entire raid and the 2nd is total mana gained for me.
I had around 42k mana in this raid.
As you can see, on almost every fight I gained more than 100% of my total mana from seal of wisdom.
I haven't been running ICC25hc weekly like I used to so I dont have any recent logs or anything from that raid, but next time I do, Ill be sure to record it and take some screenshots.
Cheers.Edited: January 22, 2018
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