1. 3.3.5 Survival PVE Guide


    Introduction

    Where do we begin? Perhaps with a note to people forming the raids.
    Please stop kicking us for being Survival!
    Maybe we need this guide to improve survival awareness.

    I started raiding heroics in my guild as MM and felt like leveling another hunter. When I got to level 80 I couldn’t see the point of having two MM hunters, thus Hypnotictoad became SV. We ended up trying the SV hunter in the raid one time and we haven’t gone back since.

    Let’s break it down a little and compare SV to MM.
    Spoiler: Show


    Buffs:
    MM brings 10% attack power to the raid. If your raid doesn’t include an enhancement shaman, blood DK or an MM hunter already, than MM is going to be better for the 10% arrack power.
    SV brings replenish, the only other class that brings replenish at the hc level is ret pally. Replenish is more important in heroics than in normal. If the raid isn’t overgeared then your healers will need replenish.

    Mobility:
    Hunters are probably one of the most mobile classes there is, especially the most mobile ranged dps. SV is the most mobile spec to play. In a lot of the raid fights there is constant moving which can be very drain on your dps, but as SV it’s not really an issue. “Gotta take little to the big ooze? No problem, I’ll dps the whole time while doing it.” The only thing that limits a SV’s movement is Sniper Training.
    MM while still very mobile, its damage still relies heavily on Auto shot and Steady Shot.

    Target switching:
    One of the biggest advantages of SV is the very little penalty it suffers from target switching, whether it be a Short switch or long. A clear advantage is in such fights as DBS, after the trap procs your Lock and Load, the beast(s) will die extremely quick.

    Damage:
    I am sure one of the biggest deterrents for going SV is that most people believe it’s the lowest dps hunter spec, but that’s just not true. SV isn’t too far behind MM.
    SV comes closer the longer the fight is. MM will have readiness to make for a great burst at start, but will level off. Fight long enough and MM will need to switch aspect for mana where SV will never run out.

    Fun:
    I felt that I should include this because I find SV a lot more fun.
    I would say the SV requires more skill than MM so perhaps new to the game people may consider playing MM first, but if you have been playing a while and still haven’t tried SV, give it a shot. It's really good to try something different and you could end up like me and love it.

    I'm not trying to convince anyone SV is better than MM, but SV is a lot better than the majority of the community believes.



    Talents and Glyphs

    Typical build:





    Glyphs:
    Glyph of Kill Shot,
    Glyph of Serpent Sting
    Glyph of Steady Shot.

    If your crit rating is under 60% you should put two points into Expose Weakness, and switch Glyph of Steady Shot. to Glyph of Explosive Shot.

    Preferred pet:
    Wolf of course
    Spoiler: Show



    Rotation

    Always start with hunter mark and pet attack, I macro these two together. Always MD the tank before pull.

    To simply put it, Your priorities are:
    Kill Shot > Explosive Shot > Black Arrow > Aimed Shot >Serpent Sting > Steady Shot

    You CANNOT miss your Explosive Shot cool down. Meaning you should be ready to use Explosive shot as soon as it comes off CD, every time.
    You might think it might be better to do another Steady Shot before your next Explosive Shot, but if your Steady Shot fires at the same time or after when your Explosive Shot would have, then it’s a dps loss. The more Explosive Shots you miss the less Explosive Shots you do. Being your top dmg ability ,35-42% depending on gear and buffs, you cannot afford to miss it.


    Lock and Load:
    Lock and Load is a good boost to SV. While it may not activate often it is important to know what to do to get the most out of it.
    Remember that talk we had about clipping DoTs? This is where it becomes most important. Lock and Load gives you 2 casts of Explosive Shot without cooldown, getting to fire 3 in a row. However Explosive Shot is a DoT so it is important that your next Explosive Shot doesn’t clip the previous.

    AOE and Multi Target:
    On multi target situations you can replace Aimed Shot with Multi Shot in your rotations.
    For heavy AOE: MD the tank, use Explosive trap and Volley, Feign Death when you rip agro.
    Very few classes can do as much AOE dmg as this and sustain it. MD and feign aren't optional, you will need them for your agro.

    Advanced Rotation Guide
    Spoiler: Show

    Hypnotictoad's 4 step rotation plan to survival
    This is your advanced rotation, when the target’s health is below 20% you fit kill Shot in as the #1 priority. Obviously you will not be able to use the “4 steps” 100% of the time, but it will give you a base to fall on when you are able to just open up with max dps. With practice you'll be able to jump back into the "step rotation" even when mechanics knocked the steps out of order.

    Step 1:
    Explosive Shot > Black Arrow > Aimed Shot > Serpent Sting

    Step 2:
    Explosive Shot > Steady Shot > Steady Shot

    Step 3:
    Explosive Shot > Aimed Shot > Steady Shot

    Step 4:
    Repeat step 2
    (Explosive Shot > Steady Shot > Steady Shot)

    DINGDING your Lock and Load has proc'd
    Depending on which step you’re on, it’ll change how you handle Lock and Load.

    Step 1:
    Alternate between Explosive Shot and your instant moves. Serpent Sting will get pushed into “Step 2”, replacing the first Steady Shot. You will correct it next cycle.

    Step 2:
    Explosive Shot > (wait) > Explosive Shot > (wait) > Next Step

    Step 3:
    Explosive Shot > Aimed Shot > Explosive Shot > (wait) > Next Step

    The wait times will vary depending on your distance to the boss, I usually just count to 2. (ES "one steam boat, two steam boat" ES)
    Or you can watch the debuff on the boss and get a feel for it that way. Which ever you do, just don't clip it.
    There are many other advantages to Lock and Load and you will find them the more you play. A lot of fights call for hunter traps and you’ll love the amount of procs you get.


    A couple screen shot of my damage in ICC matching a good MM hunt that slightly out gears me.
    Includes the breakdown of my damage and an idea of how your breakdown should look.

    DBS and add Damage:
    https://imgur.com/0tm4nio

    Rotface
    https://imgur.com/UwvVeKv




    Stats and Gearing

    Stat priority:
    Hit
    Agility
    Crit(to 60% unbuffed)
    Attack power
    Armour penetration
    Haste

    Exploring Your Stats
    Spoiler: Show

    Hit:
    Get hit to 8%. Alliance can gear for 7% as long as they're guaranteed to always have a Draenei in their group. If you need to spec precision you can but I suggest gearing out of it as soon as possible, points are more valuable else where.

    Agility:
    All you’ll ever need but you can’t seem to get enough. Agility is the bread and butter of an SV hunter, get as much as you can get.

    Crit:
    After you get to 60% crit(unbuffed) attack power becomes more useful. 60% will allow you to have one point in Expose weakness, keeping 100% uptime while raid buffed. Crit cap is 85%(buffed)

    Attack power:
    Always a decent stat, but choose agility over attack power as SV.

    Armour penetration:
    Not a great stat for SV but will still increases Auto Shot, Aimed Shot, and Steady Shot damage.
    Unfortunately Gear does not come with just crit, agility and attack power, so you will have to choose between haste or armour penetration, so choose armour penetration.

    Haste:
    The worst stat for your survival. All haste will do is increase your auto shot damage while standing still. “But hey, haste will also reduce GCD!” Yes but if you read through the rotation portion of the guide then you will see that there are wait times. These wait times counteract any gains that your haste has made, and the amount of haste that you would need to push another steady shot(a weak move) in your rotation will not be worth the other stats that you’ll need to sacrifice.


    Gearing:
    There is currently no BiS gear list worth looking at, I may take some time to make a list in the future.
    Most of your BiS list is going to be the same as MM due to the fact that haste is lowest presence for both specs. The only difference is that you’ll need the 2 or 3 percent more hit and the trinkets.

    You can get the hit by switching your legs to VDW 10 HC, or Use Tier legs and Forgotten kings as chest.

    As for trinkets:
    Death’s verdict/Deaths choice
    Sharpened twilight scale

    DBW is a good trinket but only if the third proc doesn’t put you past crit cap. Once you’re geared enough you’ll be crit capped, or close to, just from raid buffs.


    Macros

    Nothing too crazy when it comes to macros, but I’ll include some that I find useful.

    MD focus macro:
    Set the Main tank as focus
    Spoiler: Show

    #showtooltip misdirection
    /cast [target=focus] misdirection

    If you need to misdirect to the boss’ targeted tank, useful when tank swap or on fights like BPC, you can use:
    Spoiler: Show

    #showtooltip misdirection
    /cast [target=targettarget] misdirection

    Macro your pet attack and Hunter's mark together
    Spoiler: Show

    #showtooltip Hunter’s mark
    /cast hunter’s mark
    /petattack

    Also make an "iWin" macro That uses all your CDs, You'll use this at the start of the fight or when the strategy calls for it.
    *for example*
    Spoiler: Show

    #showtooltip rapid fire
    /cast call of the wild
    /cast rapid fire
    /cast kill command

    Add "/use [trinket name]" if you have use trinkets.
    Edited: January 16, 2018


  2. Introduction

    Where do we begin? Perhaps with a note to people forming the raids.
    Please stop kicking us for being Survival!
    Maybe we need this guide to improve survival awareness.

    I started raiding heroics in my guild as MM and felt like leveling another hunter. When I got to level 80 I couldn’t see the point of having two MM hunters, thus Hypnotictoad became SV. We ended up trying the SV hunter in the raid one time and we haven’t gone back since.

    Let’s break it down a little and compare SV to MM.
    Spoiler: Show


    Buffs:
    MM brings 10% attack power to the raid. If your raid doesn’t include an enhancement shaman, blood DK or an MM hunter already, than MM is going to be better for the 10% arrack power.
    SV brings replenish, the only other class that brings replenish at the hc level is ret pally. Replenish is more important in heroics than in normal. If the raid isn’t overgeared then your healers will need replenish.

    Mobility:
    Hunters are probably one of the most mobile classes there is, especially the most mobile ranged dps. SV is the most mobile spec to play. In a lot of the raid fights there is constant moving which can be very drain on your dps, but as SV it’s not really an issue. “Gotta take little to the big ooze? No problem, I’ll dps the whole time while doing it.” The only thing that limits a SV’s movement is Sniper Training.
    MM while still very mobile, its damage still relies heavily on Auto shot and Steady Shot.

    Target switching:
    One of the biggest advantages of SV is the very little penalty it suffers from target switching, whether it be a Short switch or long. A clear advantage is in such fights as DBS, after the trap procs your Lock and Load, the beast(s) will die extremely quick.

    Damage:
    I am sure one of the biggest deterrents for going SV is that most people believe it’s the lowest dps hunter spec, but that’s just not true. SV isn’t too far behind MM.
    SV comes closer the longer the fight is. MM will have readiness to make for a great burst at start, but will level off. Fight long enough and MM will need to switch aspect for mana where SV will never run out.

    Fun:
    I felt that I should include this because I find SV a lot more fun.
    I would say the SV requires more skill than MM so perhaps new to the game people may consider playing MM first, but if you have been playing a while and still haven’t tried SV, give it a shot. It's really good to try something different and you could end up like me and love it.

    I'm not trying to convince anyone SV is better than MM, but SV is a lot better than the majority of the community believes.



    Talents and Glyphs

    Typical build:





    Glyphs:
    Glyph of Kill Shot,
    Glyph of Serpent Sting
    Glyph of Steady Shot.

    If your crit rating is under 60% you should put two points into Expose Weakness, and switch Glyph of Steady Shot. to Glyph of Explosive Shot.

    Preferred pet:
    Wolf of course
    Spoiler: Show



    Rotation

    Always start with hunter mark and pet attack, I macro these two together. Always MD the tank before pull.

    To simply put it, Your priorities are:
    Kill Shot > Explosive Shot > Black Arrow > Aimed Shot >Serpent Sting > Steady Shot

    You CANNOT miss your Explosive Shot cool down. Meaning you should be ready to use Explosive shot as soon as it comes off CD, every time.
    You might think it might be better to do another Steady Shot before your next Explosive Shot, but if your Steady Shot fires at the same time or after when your Explosive Shot would have, then it’s a dps loss. The more Explosive Shots you miss the less Explosive Shots you do. Being your top dmg ability ,35-42% depending on gear and buffs, you cannot afford to miss it.


    Lock and Load:
    Lock and Load is a good boost to SV. While it may not activate often it is important to know what to do to get the most out of it.
    Remember that talk we had about clipping DoTs? This is where it becomes most important. Lock and Load gives you 2 casts of Explosive Shot without cooldown, getting to fire 3 in a row. However Explosive Shot is a DoT so it is important that your next Explosive Shot doesn’t clip the previous.

    AOE and Multi Target:
    On multi target situations you can replace Aimed Shot with Multi Shot in your rotations.
    For heavy AOE: MD the tank, use Explosive trap and Volley, Feign Death when you rip agro.
    Very few classes can do as much AOE dmg as this and sustain it. MD and feign aren't optional, you will need them for your agro.

    Advanced Rotation Guide
    Spoiler: Show

    Hypnotictoad's 4 step rotation plan to survival
    This is your advanced rotation, when the target’s health is below 20% you fit kill Shot in as the #1 priority. Obviously you will not be able to use the “4 steps” 100% of the time, but it will give you a base to fall on when you are able to just open up with max dps. With practice you'll be able to jump back into the "step rotation" even when mechanics knocked the steps out of order.

    Step 1:
    Explosive Shot > Black Arrow > Aimed Shot > Serpent Sting

    Step 2:
    Explosive Shot > Steady Shot > Steady Shot

    Step 3:
    Explosive Shot > Aimed Shot > Steady Shot

    Step 4:
    Repeat step 2
    (Explosive Shot > Steady Shot > Steady Shot)

    DINGDING your Lock and Load has proc'd
    Depending on which step you’re on, it’ll change how you handle Lock and Load.

    Step 1:
    Alternate between Explosive Shot and your instant moves. Serpent Sting will get pushed into “Step 2”, replacing the first Steady Shot. You will correct it next cycle.

    Step 2:
    Explosive Shot > (wait) > Explosive Shot > (wait) > Next Step

    Step 3:
    Explosive Shot > Aimed Shot > Explosive Shot > (wait) > Next Step

    The wait times will vary depending on your distance to the boss, I usually just count to 2. (ES "one steam boat, two steam boat" ES)
    Or you can watch the debuff on the boss and get a feel for it that way. Which ever you do, just don't clip it.
    There are many other advantages to Lock and Load and you will find them the more you play. A lot of fights call for hunter traps and you’ll love the amount of procs you get.


    A couple screen shot of my damage in ICC matching a good MM hunt that slightly out gears me.
    Includes the breakdown of my damage and an idea of how your breakdown should look.

    DBS and add Damage:
    https://imgur.com/0tm4nio

    Rotface
    https://imgur.com/UwvVeKv




    Stats and Gearing

    Stat priority:
    Hit
    Agility
    Crit(to 60% unbuffed)
    Attack power
    Armour penetration
    Haste

    Exploring Your Stats
    Spoiler: Show

    Hit:
    Get hit to 8%. Alliance can gear for 7% as long as they're guaranteed to always have a Draenei in their group. If you need to spec precision you can but I suggest gearing out of it as soon as possible, points are more valuable else where.

    Agility:
    All you’ll ever need but you can’t seem to get enough. Agility is the bread and butter of an SV hunter, get as much as you can get.

    Crit:
    After you get to 60% crit(unbuffed) attack power becomes more useful. 60% will allow you to have one point in Expose weakness, keeping 100% uptime while raid buffed. Crit cap is 85%(buffed)

    Attack power:
    Always a decent stat, but choose agility over attack power as SV.

    Armour penetration:
    Not a great stat for SV but will still increases Auto Shot, Aimed Shot, and Steady Shot damage.
    Unfortunately Gear does not come with just crit, agility and attack power, so you will have to choose between haste or armour penetration, so choose armour penetration.

    Haste:
    The worst stat for your survival. All haste will do is increase your auto shot damage while standing still. “But hey, haste will also reduce GCD!” Yes but if you read through the rotation portion of the guide then you will see that there are wait times. These wait times counteract any gains that your haste has made, and the amount of haste that you would need to push another steady shot(a weak move) in your rotation will not be worth the other stats that you’ll need to sacrifice.


    Gearing:
    There is currently no BiS gear list worth looking at, I may take some time to make a list in the future.
    Most of your BiS list is going to be the same as MM due to the fact that haste is lowest presence for both specs. The only difference is that you’ll need the 2 or 3 percent more hit and the trinkets.

    You can get the hit by switching your legs to VDW 10 HC, or Use Tier legs and Forgotten kings as chest.

    As for trinkets:
    Death’s verdict/Deaths choice
    Sharpened twilight scale

    DBW is a good trinket but only if the third proc doesn’t put you past crit cap. Once you’re geared enough you’ll be crit capped, or close to, just from raid buffs.


    Macros

    Nothing too crazy when it comes to macros, but I’ll include some that I find useful.

    MD focus macro:
    Set the Main tank as focus
    Spoiler: Show

    #showtooltip misdirection
    /cast [target=focus] misdirection

    If you need to misdirect to the boss’ targeted tank, useful when tank swap or on fights like BPC, you can use:
    Spoiler: Show

    #showtooltip misdirection
    /cast [target=targettarget] misdirection

    Macro your pet attack and Hunter's mark together
    Spoiler: Show

    #showtooltip Hunter’s mark
    /cast hunter’s mark
    /petattack

    Also make an "iWin" macro That uses all your CDs, You'll use this at the start of the fight or when the strategy calls for it.
    *for example*
    Spoiler: Show

    #showtooltip rapid fire
    /cast call of the wild
    /cast rapid fire
    /cast kill command

    Add "/use [trinket name]" if you have use trinkets.
    Nice!!! ive looking for that. But what about pets

  3. Nice!!! ive looking for that. But what about pets
    You quoted all the post, even the part you're asking about

  4. There is a section for pets. It’s small. Make sure you click the “show buttons”

  5. I'm pretty sorry friend but your guide isn't nearly as good as it should. Yea i respect that you've put a lot of effort and work to create it, but apparently you haven't played survival on its full potential yet, you can private message me anytime to give you some advices that you won't ever regret. Cheers.

  6. I'm pretty sorry friend but your guide isn't nearly as good as it should. Yea i respect that you've put a lot of effort and work to create it, but apparently you haven't played survival on its full potential yet, you can private message me anytime to give you some advices that you won't ever regret. Cheers.
    Perhaps do whatever correction and discussions here, since I did this for other people.
    Start with what you’d change.
    I do pretty well as surv, it is extremely rare that I come across an MM that can beat me with equal gear.

  7. I played survival in ICC 10 did pretty well consistently top dps but I found using frost trap on bosses would trigger lock 'n load proc but using freezing arrow didn't. Is this a bug or is it the way it's supposed to work?

  8. its supposed to work like that since the tooltip of LnL says that it only proccs when successfuly trapping a target. since bosses cant be CCd and freezing arrow remains without effect, you dont get a procc. frost trap on the other hand always gets procced

  9. June 8, 2018  

  10. Bro why you talent wyvern sting if you dont use it on your rotation

  11. He has to to do it due the followup talent "Noxious Stings".

  12. If your crit rating is under 60% you should put two points into Expose Weakness, and switch Glyph of Steady Shot to Glyph of Explosive Shot.
    60% crit is kind of an arbitrary point. It's true that Glyph of Explosive Shot starts out better at entry-level gear (i.e. pre-ToC), but any gear level above that should favour the Steady Shot glyph.

    As for trinkets:
    Death’s verdict/Deaths choice
    Sharpened twilight scale

    DBW is a good trinket but only if the third proc doesn’t put you past crit cap. Once you’re geared enough you’ll be crit capped, or close to, just from raid buffs.
    Oh you definitely want DBW. The soft crit cap for Kill Shot really isn't that big a deal that DBW would no longer be BiS after you reached it.

    There is currently no BiS gear list worth looking at, I may take some time to make a list in the future.
    Most of your BiS list is going to be the same as MM due to the fact that haste is lowest presence for both specs. The only difference is that you’ll need the 2 or 3 percent more hit and the trinkets.
    The BiS list should be near identical to MM's. Survival would prefer Signet of Twilight over Frostbrood (because it'd need the Hit Rating), and the missing Hit and Arp would have to be covered through gems. I don't believe anything apart from the Ring should be different.
    Edited: July 11, 2018

  13. Oh you definitely want DBW. The soft crit cap for Kill Shot really isn't that big a deal that DBW would no longer be BiS after you reached it.
    Hey, I see what you mean by that, but one thing comes in my mind about the dbw and sts.
    What concerns me, is the passive armor penetration at both dbw and sts, and slow procs on dbw.
    Would it not be better if we get DV/DC and Whispering franged skull combination.
    I understand that attack power on STS proc is better, but DC and WFS seem to me that have more useful passive stats, and beside that, having also better proc rate then DBW.

    Or am I wrong with something ?

    Best regards.
    Edited: October 26, 2018 Reason: typpo

  14. It looks like from the dmg in the screen shot, the crit is very high even on normal attacks. Over 90%. The Dbw proc would def put one over cap, not to mention the other procs that aren't as good like the haste buff.

  15. What arrows do you use if you're not an eng.?

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