1. Unholy isn't heavily favored against Shadow and Frost mages are suddenly the easiest class in PvP? How about you start by providing me with less nonsense and then we'll talk about advice.
    Nonsense is a strong word. It's kind of funny considering you think a DK hard counters a class with a Silence/Shackle Undead etc. Oh I know it's probably because you still insist on mixing Spirit and Crit gear!

    I didn't say the easiest, I said the easiest to succeed with. The easiest is Ret paladin obviously. But it isn't easy to succeed as Ret, for other reasons.

    If you think that is nonsense, what do you think is strong/weak?

  2. Nonsense is a strong word. It's kind of funny considering you think a DK hard counters a class with a Silence/Shackle Undead etc. Oh I know it's probably because you still insist on mixing Spirit and Crit gear!

    I didn't say the easiest, I said the easiest to succeed with. The easiest is Ret paladin obviously. But it isn't easy to succeed as Ret, for other reasons.

    If you think that is nonsense, what do you think is strong/weak?
    What is your advice on beating unholy as sp?

  3. Fake the Mind Freeze and Mind Control freely between fears.

  4. Good in theory, but in practice by the time you get that mc off you are sitting without shield and probably near or even lower 70% vs any decent dk. Even then he can gnaw, ams or grip your mc cast. Also add pushback since mc has rather long cast time.
    Its a downhill battle for sp as soon as the gates open no matter what you do. You shouldnt lose to sp as unholy unless you literally horrible.

    edit: it is tho the only way you can beat a (bad)dk in 1v1, no doubt in that.
    Edited: February 2, 2018

  5. It works in practice also. DK can interrupt in other ways but once Lichborne, AMS, Stragulate and Gnaw are down the priest can have his way with the DK.

    It depends on how effectively the priest can mitigate the damage in the meantime and a Shadow Priest has plenty of ways to do so versus a DK.

    I'm not going to lie, it is a favoured heavily toward the the DK. But it is not a "hard" counter.

  6. What do you consider as hard counters then ? Going by this logic ret shouldnt also harcounter arms or rogues
    ?
    Edited: February 2, 2018

  7. Nonsense is a strong word. It's kind of funny considering you think a DK hard counters a class with a Silence/Shackle Undead etc. Oh I know it's probably because you still insist on mixing Spirit and Crit gear!
    Yes, priests also have Fear Ward, obviously there's no way warlocks can counter them, right? Potato logic. I don't know what kind of terrible DKs you've been fighting to give you this false impression but Shadow has neither the damage to race, nor does it have the survivability to outlast the DK's cds while being pounded with 0 mobility the entire fight. Your PvP set in this case matters very little, with spirit being the worst, crit being the best and mix being in the middle.

    Fake the Mind Freeze and Mind Control freely between fears.
    This guy, man. What a revolutionary idea to use Mind Control in duels, you must be real cool to share this kind of advice with lowly peasants like us. Damn, If only I could ignore Gnaw, Grip, Strangulate, Anti-Magic Shell and the second Mind Freeze that just came off cd as reliably as you, I might actually be able to get off that 2.3 sec cast while being pounded by 2-3 separate instances of pushback before I hit 20% hp.


    It works in practice also. DK can interrupt in other ways but once Lichborne, AMS, Stragulate and Gnaw are down the priest can have his way with the DK.
    Oh yeah, once those little technicalities are out of the way and you've finally managed to land your Pyroblast at point blank range, you can finally get down to business. Oh wait, no, you're either dead or close to death and DK still has Icebound, Sac, Bone Shield, AMZ and 3 years worth of Death Strike healing. Good luck killing him before he starts getting his cds back.

    It depends on how effectively the priest can mitigate the damage in the meantime and a Shadow Priest has plenty of ways to do so versus a DK.
    You can't tank Unholy's damage and you can't kite. Every single time the DK is near you, you're on a death clock. Do you know how often the DK is near you? 98% of the fight (that 2% is lag and the millisecond it takes for him to trinket your fear) because you have 0 mobility and the DK has 6 ways to counter your CC, which is your only way of creating distance.

    I'm not going to lie, it is a favoured heavily toward the the DK. But it is not a "hard" counter.
    Sorry to break it to you but if one class is heavily favored to win versus another, that's a counter.
    Edited: February 2, 2018

  8. If you're in any capacity serious about Blood PvP, you have Unholy Blight. It's not a "hybrid", it's the go to Blood PvP spec.



    Unholy and Affliction both absolutely destroy Shadow with minimal levels of skill required, it's some of the hardest counters in this game. At higher levels of play, Shadow also has very unfavorable odds against Sub rogues and Frost mages. Not really what I call spec with least counters.

    The only spec in the game that comes close to having good odds against everything is Frost mage and only at very high levels of skill. Destruction warlocks, Unholy DKs and Feral druids are close second. Rogues would also be there if they didn't get countered so hard by anything with plate and shield or tanking stance. All this is assuming a dueling setting, If this is world PvP/BG 1v1, rogues take over the spot of Destruction warlocks as one benefits from its opponents not being prepared for an opener and the other one requires preparation for optimal performance, something you don't have time to constantly do while moving.
    Intelligent spriest will never lose to destro lock. Only thing priest has to do is keep maximum range, spam dispel and slowly wear him down. That even works in open, in arenas for example (1v1) is beating destro lock complete joke if you´re patient.

  9. Intelligent spriest will never lose to destro lock. Only thing priest has to do is keep maximum range, spam dispel and slowly wear him down. That even works in open, in arenas for example (1v1) is beating destro lock complete joke if you´re patient.
    Open area favors the warlock. Your strategy doesn't work against any destruction warlock with half a brain that knows how to use teleport, mount up or engage with succubus into Fel Dom Felhunter. If there's a pillar, then Spriest starts to gain advantage because even when destruction initiates with a combo, the Spriest can always disengage and recover, something it can't do in the open. In a way, both of these classes counter each other depending on terrain.

    Does anyone ever wonder why the majority of players have settled on abbreviating destruction as destro instead of destru? I do. All those sleepless nights...

  10. Open area favors the warlock. Your strategy doesn't work against any destruction warlock with half a brain that knows how to use teleport, mount up or engage with succubus into Fel Dom Felhunter. If there's a pillar, then Spriest starts to gain advantage because even when destruction initiates with a combo, the Spriest can always disengage and recover, something it can't do in the open. In a way, both of these classes counter each other depending on terrain.

    Does anyone ever wonder why the majority of players have settled on abbreviating destruction as destro instead of destru? I do. All those sleepless nights...
    Even on open what stops me from outranging your fear and dispelling backdraft or immolate? You only have one slow that i can fade. Only windows you are going to get is shadowfury or coil. All your damage starts with hardcasting vs my mindless dp spam.
    I dont get the succubus feldom felhunter part, what does that give? You get a seduce (any decent priest is going to spam the **** out of swd here) on me that is going to be broken when you feldom, leaving you one or two globals behind .
    Using prtal just means pom and renew on pri.
    Im pretty sure this is a counter no matter the terrain.
    Edited: February 2, 2018

  11. Does anyone ever wonder why the majority of players have settled on abbreviating destruction as destro instead of destru? I do. All those sleepless nights...
    Could be worse. Could be "dudu".

  12. Even on open what stops me from outranging your fear and dispelling backdraft or immolate? You only have one slow that i can fade. Only windows you are going to get is shadowfury or coil. All your damage starts with hardcasting vs my mindless dp spam.
    I dont get the succubus feldom felhunter part, what does that give? You get a seduce (any decent priest is going to spam the **** out of swd here) on me that is going to be broken when you feldom leaving you one or two globals behind .
    Im pretty sure this is a counter no matter the terrain.
    Seduction gives the warlock engage, direct response to Micmengodx's strategy to kite the warlock at max range. You're not gonna death a 0.3 cast out of invisibility while at the same time trying to spam instants on the warlock. The swap to felhunter happens depending on what the priest does, it can happen during a fear or during a priest cast if he decides to trinket the first combo, obviously not while the first seduction is still active. At this point it's very easy for the warlock to tunnel CC and damage into the priest to force dispersion. It's a losing battle for the priest from here on, if he wants to go offensive, he will never kill the warlock before his DRs are done and there's nothing to hide behind to recover from the next CC chain. Also not only is one slow more than 0, which means warlock will still be faster, but they can also glyph for a second one.

    If there is a pillar however, the priest can negate a lot of the pressure, causing the fight to last much longer. Destruction has no sustain besides Healthstone and Fel Armor so it's just gonna die to random dots eventually.

    Could be worse. Could be "dudu".
    Well, at least with dudu, the whole thing is a mess. Destro just has that one letter specifically to trigger my autism.
    Edited: February 2, 2018

  13. Well, at least with dudu, the whole thing is a mess. Destro just has that one letter specifically to trigger my autism.
    And I'm wondering why ppl here call a damage dealer "DPS".
    On retail we used to call them "DD".

  14. And I'm wondering why ppl here call a damage dealer "DPS".
    On retail we used to call them "DD".
    Well, damage per second, I mean I know that you know it, but I as well called it 'DD' until I figured that people have no idea what I'm talking about. :D

  15. Yes, priests also have Fear Ward, obviously there's no way warlocks can counter them, right? Potato logic. I don't know what kind of terrible DKs you've been fighting to give you this false impression but Shadow has neither the damage to race, nor does it have the survivability to outlast the DK's cds while being pounded with 0 mobility the entire fight. Your PvP set in this case matters very little, with spirit being the worst, crit being the best and mix being in the middle.
    Please no stupid strawman arguments.. fear ward once requires one cast to remove. That is irrelevant to the current conversation anyway. Yes.. no more potato logic, stay focused!

    I don't know what kind of terrible DKs you've been fighting to give you this false impression but Shadow has neither the damage to race, nor does it have the survivability to outlast the DK's cds while being pounded with 0 mobility the entire fight.
    Ok tip 1. Your first or 2nd global will be used to dispel Chains of Ice. You also have Fade.
    Damage to race? That’s a dumb thing to say. It’s not about damage, it’s about forcing the DK to use his CDs. Sure bad priests get “pounded” during these CDs, but good priests have plenty of ways to survive; PW:S, PoM, Abolish Disease, Renew is usually enough. But if that isn’t you can always free cast following a fake. You can even allow them to interrupt holy and then mind control, or interrupt shadow and then spam heal. The possibilities are endless.

    Your PvP set in this case matters very little, with spirit being the worst, crit being in the middle.
    Please stop hurting my brain with this potato logic. Spirit set and crit set are both the best for different reasons. But you are not going to beat a DK with a crit set, as you will run OOM before you force him to use his defensives. You either run full spirit and outlast, or full crit and outburst (which is impossible vs a perfectly played DK). Mixing sets, giving up your 4 set bonus to 2set bonuses is one of the most noobish mistakes you can make. You give up all those stats for more resilience and you STILL die? Listen up and you might actually learn somehting.

    You need to learn what “hard counter” means. If a class hard counters another, it never loses to it. I beat good DKs regularly on my priest, as can many other good priests - thus invadliating the concept DK "hard counters" priest. Most mediocre priests like yourself simply play incorrectly and thus assume DK cannot be beaten.

    This guy, man. What a revolutionary idea to use Mind Control in duels, you must be real cool to share this kind of advice with lowly peasants like us. Damn, If only I could ignore Gnaw, Grip, Strangulate, Anti-Magic Shell and the second Mind Freeze that just came off cd as reliably as you, I might actually be able to get off that 2.3 sec cast while being pounded by 2-3 separate instances of pushback before I hit 20% hp.
    Well Mind Control is only for style points, its actually optional if you are good enough at using both schools of magic. But yes, I’ll admit it probably is beyond YOUR capabilities. Do you have a DK? I would enjoy humiliating it on my priest.

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