Black temple experience and opinions.

[Nzzoth]

Hello guys, to start off I really don't wish to make this into a bug or nerf begging topic.

I felt the need to share my overall experience and opinion on black temple and I can not come up with a better words than huge ups and downs.

Lets start with the basic:
Naj'entus:

What an absolute perfect fight and entry it's played perfectly from start to finish especially with the Warmane tunning.
-Huge dps, hps and coordination check to show you what the place will be like.
-Perfectly blocks low geared guilds for progressing further into the raid until they gear more.
Supremus:

Colossal disappointment, however in my opinion this due to blizzards boss design it's basically a good job you killed Naj'entus here's some more loot.
Shade of Akama:

Another take your loot boss, nothing much to say here.
Teron gorefiend:

This is just a perfectly fine tunned boss, have some struggle for loot. Nothing special I can say but in my mind perfectly tunned for a loot giveaway.
ROS:

I'm getting a bit boring with my average boss comments and hold with me here. The fight seems to play out just fine, it could be a bit harder but still a good difficulty for a "loot boss"
Bloodboil:

And finally we're getting to our destination.
-On release I believe this boss was the most perfectly tunned bosses I've ever seen, perfect HPS check with a decent DPS check. Requested guilds to really sit down and think of a tactic on how to handle him give in a few tries and get familiar with the fight. Really perfect road block.
-So after all the hype and excitement I had on this boss and looking forward to see him again after reset we finally reach him again only to find myself crushed with disappointment on how nerfed into the ground he has gotten.
-After the second reset with all excitement out of me I came to face the boss yet again, only to find fel infused targets were dropping like flies. God forbid a cloth/leather class got it. Basically here you get introduced to "The one shot".
Mother:

Oh boy what a ride, I honestly dunno where to start.
-Mana intensive.
-Huge spikes of damage on the tank.
-Even more huge spikes damage on the tank.
-"The one shot"
Overall feeling on this boss as a healer is just misery and despair. Your tank getting one shot out of nowhere just seems to be the story here and being helpless is simply not fun.
Illidari:

Quite a great fight, another fight after "original" bloodboil that I absolutely fell in love with however! Even though I said in my opening sentence I don't want to make this into a bug tracker topic this one is put in the shadow due to its huge and fight breaking bug.
Lord Illidan Stormrage <THE ONE SHOT>:

I think I said enough already but in need this one to sink in, the fight is as if you're bringing a knife into a gunfight and your plan is to dodge.

I do understand the need to make this as epic as possible and I absolutely love it, however the insane damage spikes on the tanks are not the way to do it.
What do you guys think? What were your experiences?

[Jubzz]

Most guilds haven't even made it to BT yet, and now won't for another little while.

The previous tier bosses / raids have now had several "bugs" fixed that have made the encounters more difficult than they were when the guilds currently in BT had it. (Implementing mechanics that weren't there previously)

I have two examples (both bosses that my guild is currently on / just killed).

Leo: The AOE dot from his whirlwind is no longer reduced by armor (This change went in over the last few days) which means that EVERYONE that takes the whirlwind debuff is now taking the max damage from it. - We managed to kill Leo last night, but it was quite a bit harder than last week.

A'lar: In phase 2, if his primary target is not in his melee range, he will constantly start casting Flame buffet on the raid... This has made this encounter more difficult than it was last week as well.


I've read in other threads about bug fixes that happened on the KT and Vashj fights themselves too that made them harder. So as it stands right now, all the guilds who cleared T5 content before this last week got off easy, because we now have to clear harder content than they did in order to catch up to them.

Not to mention some game-breaking bugs (Gruul not breaking stuns on the raid with 7 buffs.. so at 7 stacks everyone just got perma stunned, and he walked around killing everyone) essentially cucking people for an entire week of getting attuned to SSC / progression ---> This one was fixed 20 hours ago according to the bugs section

[spraynard]

Najentus - perfect.

Supremus - easy/perfect.

Akama - could be tuned harder to account for the damage that players do on this server as opposed to retail, which allows some unclassic cheese strats that shouldn't be possible. But it never was a hard fight, so good enough.

Gorefiend - Very good except for one pretty big bug which appears to be getting worked on atm. (full resists on his ghost debuff). The difficulty will be correct after this bug is fixed.

RoS - should absolutely be tuned harder. This is the one boss that stands out, in my experience, as being vastly easier than he should be. It's as though this is the only fight in BT that wasn't custom tuned, and they just left Blizzard values for a 2.1 boss on patch 2.4.3.

Bloodboil - I thought he was fine last week. The mechanics are not the same as on retail (he is tauntable here), but the fight has been buffed in certain areas to compensate, and I think this results in a better version.

What about him has been nerfed exactly? We haven't done him yet this week. He always had the potential to 1 shot clothies on this server, did he not?

Mother - A tank check, and heal check with some minor coordination thrown in, along with gating your guild with shadow resist to make sure you've farmed the previous content enough. Definitely WAY harder than retail mother. And I love it. Please don't change a thing. Tank problems can be solved with alternate sets of tank gear imo. If your tank is using his regular effective health/threat setup, then yea, he's probably going to get wrecked randomly. But I'm making assumptions here. I don't know your tank setup or how they are dying.

Council - Looks really good to me. An endurance/survival fight which is tuned to be a strategic dps check as well.

What's the major, fight breaking, bug? I hope you report it, if it isn't reported already. Or at least PM a dev if it's not widely known yet.

Illidan - it had some bugs at the start and has gone through a few different versions. I think, over all it, looks very good now. Although maybe a little on the easy side. There are still major bugs that exist that should make it harder when they are addressed. (Like the blaze location for the fire eles) Maev's behavior also needs some work still.

I don't think your criticism of the fight is fair based on tank spikes. He suffers from dual wield penalty (which means a lot of misses, but also potentially some big spikes), uses sheer, and hits very hard. He's supposed to do spiky damage on your tank, and I don't think that has anything to do with custom tuning. He misses so much that if he did any less damage, a tank in avoidance gear would literally never be at risk of dying, ever.

BT as a whole - I think the most disappointing part has actually been the trash mobs. Many are just not working properly. Like, not using abilities that they should have, or not using them enough, or they are doing no damage. The trash wasn't sufficiently PTR tested because test guilds just got ported to bosses. And bug reporting it all is a monumental task.

[Lulleh]

Nice summary and I agree on most points so I will only type what I don't agree with / want to add to. Like our MT said, Supremus is just a big Trash mob. I could honestly see him with a bit less HP cos it's just so boring. :D

Could possibly make him spawn some more vulcanoes to make it a bit more challenging.

Jumping to Bloodboil here, when we first faced him on the 21st we got him to 15% before we called it. Being very confident in getting him the next day with some improvements to the tactics only to find ourselves 1 shotting him. I wouldn't mind the prenerf version. Altho, the rng on who gets Fel Rage isn't too fun. If it's a Mage or smth they just die. So I could see them nerfing the outgoing boss damage during this phase (and keeping his HP pre nerf to compensate).

Mother, I agree it can be frustrating at times but overall I really enjoy the fight.

I used to hate Council, just long and never ending but I kinda like it now. Had some **** wipes on it due to people getting wombo comboed by Blizz+Flame Strike+HoJ but good play can probably counter it to a degree. A nice final gate before Illidan.
While at council, what do you mean here?
"huge and fight breaking bug."

Then Illidan itself, we found that having super high avoidance is the way to go. Our tank went for a more TPS oriented gear setup and we encountered exactly what you describe, however once going for the Avoidance gear it's really np, and the only thing (mostly) is failing to block Shear.

We got ****ed by the Shadow Demons over and over last kill but once we brought in a 3rd lock it was np.

Here's our vid btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7XkP1meGrw

The TPS is kinda low at times as he need to save up rage for the Shear but the safe way to go for sure.

All in all I'm VERY impressed and happy with Black Temple and the few bugs that actually happened.

The only thing I'm feeling that was "forgotten" is the trash. Being super over/undertuned.

Edit: I see someone mentioned fixes to T5 stuff. Fixing it now is a bit weird, but a fix is a fix. Altho I wouldn't mind having the current harder versions when they were released. But all in all, T5 was a lot worse than T6, involving broken / abusable stuff that took super long to fix, opposed to a nearly 100% working (bosses) T6 and quick fixes.

[spraynard]

I've read in other threads about bug fixes that happened on the KT and Vashj fights themselves too that made them harder. So as it stands right now, all the guilds who cleared T5 content before this last week got off easy, because we now have to clear harder content than they did in order to catch up to them.

Here we go. Not only are you completely off topic. But you ignore all the bug fixes that make current t5 easier now than it was. I'll take a version of Kael casting Flamestrike over a version where his MCs can't be broken with daggers any day. Or a Vashj that literally can't be moved. Kael and Vashj are, without a doubt, easier now than they were a month ago.

[Jubzz]

a version where his MCs can't be broken with daggers any day. Or a Vashj that literally can't be moved.

I'm not on that content (as I stated in my post that you clearly didn't read), therefore I have no insight into that. Nothing was changed on the two fights I mentioned that "made them easier than it was".

You must be another one of those "Oh I cleared the easier content before it was buffed, therefore I'm better than you" people.

[spraynard]

I'm not on that content (as I stated in my post that you clearly didn't read), therefore I have no insight into that. Nothing was changed on the two fights I mentioned that "made them easier than it was".

You must be another one of those "Oh I cleared the easier content before it was buffed, therefore I'm better than you" people.

You said you have no insight, but then you allude to Kael and Vashj being easier based on something you read. Maybe don't even mention it then?

I'll concede that Leo is harder, but the Al'ar change should be mostly inconsequential. So now he stands still and spends time casting probably no more than 1 stack of flame buffet before a pet or tank gets into melee range? If this mechanic is preventing you from killing him then idk what to say.

[Nzzoth]

Glad to see some opinions, literally my first sentence is don't make it a bug tracker post yet still somehow you managed MOREOVER you actually don't even stick to the topic with bug reports amazing.

@lulleh
I agree with you on Bloodboil the original version was by far the best thing, funny how people want it more buffed...
For Mother I'd be unfair to say it's not near perfection, however the frustration with the huge damage spikes leaving random disasters just waiting to happen brings the worst out of me.
Also agree on Illidan but I simply hate the fact that 18 min into the fight my tank just drops 100 to 0 leaving me as his healer completely helpless literally nothing I could have done. There are ways to drastically improve your chances but it'll always leave you with that small chance.
Completely agree on the trash, do you have a insanely stupid drop rate of (leather shoulders pattern???) pre supremus trash as well?
@Spraynard
We can agree to disagree on a lot of points. I'm not sure from which perspective you're looking at and what class you play. But no offense from what I read either you're in such a damn good guild you 1 shot every boss or you're playing a almost no responsibility class (enh/ele shaman, shadow priest etc.)

However I'll make sure to PM a dev I guess regarding the bug.

[spraynard]

How do you talk about a new content release and not talk about bugs though? Challenging imo.

[spraynard]

I'm not sure from which perspective you're looking at and what class you play. But no offense from what I read either you're in such a damn good guild you 1 shot every boss or you're playing a almost no responsibility class (enh/ele shaman, shadow priest etc.).

You got it backwards. I play a prot warrior main tank in a guild that is slightly less progressed than yours, and we certainly do not 1 shot everything. Mother has killed our tanks more than a few times. However, I think it should be that way. I have a soft spot for bosses that can actually kill me - it makes it a lot more fun.

[Nzzoth]

Alright that makes a lot of sense. :)

[Tsunameh]

BT is a walk in the park after first nerf wave. Currently pretty much doable in a single 4hr rt evening if u get some luck on Mother.
I honestly don't think that it should be the way it is. Pre-nerf BT was really challenging with BB and Illidan.

[Lulleh]

@Nzzoth, oh yeah. We had a scary one like those @ HERE

[Nzzoth]

@Tsunameh
Illidan first first pull alone takes 30 minutes from RP to defeat, so I'm not sure about that one.
@Lulleh
I saw that one yes, you had a 1-2s window to top him or he'd receive a 7% max hp overkill.

[Tsunameh]

@Nzzoth
We are currently killing illidan in 16 minutes. Idk what 30 min duration ur talkin about.