1. Retribution PvP Guide 3.3.5 by Domestos



    INTRO


    Hello everyone and welcome to my guide for PvP Retribution paladin. You may know me as Domestos-Icecrown.I know there already are a bunch of paladin wotlk pvp guides. I decided to make this guide firstly to help you learn or improve your skills with retribution paladin in PvP and also many people asked me how do I beat frost mages in duels, why I never oom and stuff like that. This patch is already 10 years old and every secret should be revealed, so I'm gonna reveal you everything I have learned in my long-lasting career as a retribution paladin.



    TIPS AND TRICKS


    • Paladin has it's own defensive stance and that's called shield + one handed weapon switch. Why should you switch weapons? Because you want to survive and take less damage, as simple as that. If you are still in a gearing process, first thing you want to buy at rating 1800 is Wrathful Gladiator's Gavel and Wrathful Gladiator's Barrier


    • Time your cooldowns. Don't just blow your cds without a reason. As a retribution paladin, you have many defensive and offensive cds, use them with purpose.


    • Never turn back to your opponent. If you are kiting, try not to turn back to your opponent, if you do, you can not block, dodge or parry incoming melee attacks.


    • Do not rage. If you are angry for some reason, you experience injustice in game, you can't play because of a lag or anything that leads to rage, calm down and take a break.


    • Hey Domestos, how much resilience do you have? It always depends whom I am dueling. If i am dueling a hunter, mage, warlock or shaman, Im not going below 1300 resilience with shield equipped. The explanation is simple, the more time required to catch them, the more time needed to survive.
      Against a warrior, dk, feral/balance druid, priest, mirror, you don't need more than 1.1k resilience.


    • Know other classes. Whenever you are fighting any class, you need to know what to expect, you need to know their spells and track their cds with Aesa addon. For example, every mage will start with Poly and spell steal spam, every mm hunter starts with scatter-freeze. I got screwed many times to these classes until i realised how to deal with them. I will explain how.


    • Use Hand of Reckoning (taunt). You need this spell to get in combat or get rogues/ferals in combat at long range so they cant restealth after cyclone/sap


    • Don't underestimate or humiliate your opponent. Because karma is a bi*ch sometimes.


    • Keep your head high and spread positive vibes even if you lose :)



    DUEL TACTICS


    MAGE

    Dueling a mage can be very frustrating.The only way to beat good mage is to oom him. Switch shield and mace when he has his offensive cds up, keep healing on mirror image and water elemental and ALWAYS rebuff and use Might instead of Kings, that's really important cause he loses more mana stealing your buffs than you do and second very important thing, use Seal and Glyph of Command and you will never oom. Save freedom for deep freeze and trinket for a moment when he's gonna use Evocation, also use Art of War procs on Flash on Light, if you don't get procs, try to fakecast his Counter Spell then heal up. You also need 1300-1400 resilience for this adventure.

    SHAMAN

    Versus elemental shaman you need to watch out for grounding totem, the best way to counter it is to get sound alert addon so you can hear every time when shaman drops it and you gonna destroy it with auto attack or with pyro rocket if you are too far. Keep rebuffing while you are walking to shaman and use sacred shield only when lava burst is in half way to be casted. First break stoneclaw totem then use judgement to avoid oom. When you can clearly predict Thunderstorm (mostly when they are stunned) try to take a position where you can hit the wall or hill etc so you dont get blowed too far.

    PRIEST

    Shadow priest is the hardest match for ret. Don't go easy on them, you need to kill them as fast as possible with minimum resilience, make them fear you :) forget on cleanse and forget using shield and mace, if you really need to cleanse, use Purify to avoid cleansing Vampiric Touch and taking 5-7k instant dmg. Don't judgement while shield is up, break it first so you wont oom. You can still hit them hard using Avenging Wrath while they are under Dispersion thanks to Sanctified Wrath talent.

    WARLOCK

    Every Lock will use Felhunter vs Ret to dispell Hoj and Repentence but you will counter it using Seal of Corruption so pet will dispell stacks of your Seal instead of Stun. You can easily survive til your final stun, just spam cleanse all the time, use AOW procs for heal, Freedom Shadow Fury, use Repentence just to interrupt since you have Seal of Corruption. You need to pay attention and be careful when lock has trinket procs especially humans cause dmg is ridicolously high, you gonna wall that shlt or bubble if you are ready to get flamed to other players, if not, tryhard with Divine Protection.

    HUNTER

    While dueling a hunter, you need to be very focused and be one step ahead of him. First thing he's gonna do is to freeze you and dispell one by one buff (ofcourse you aren't gonna trinket that), you want to start with shield and mace and you gonna pop Freedom half second before freezing trap breaks cause you are gonna get silenced right after freeze expires. Keep Serpent Sting and Hunter's Mark cleansed all the time, if you hit the snake trap, instantly pop Consecration. Pop Wings on second stun and finish him off (most likely they use their trinket on first stun). You can restore mana using Judgement on his pet and Devine plea when hunter has Viper Sting also always use Frost Aura to increase your chance to resist Freezing Traps.

    FERAL DRUID

    Feral is high burst class. Just force him to pop berserk, use Divine Protection, spam Judgement of Justice and cleanse then kite him. When Berserk expires, you can start making serious pressure with saved trinket for Cyclone, when i say serious pressure i mean.... WING HIM DOWN BABY! :)

    UNHOLY DEATH KNIGHT

    DK without cds is useful as much as a corpse (no offense). You want to kill his Ghoul every time and survive Gargoyle, It's easy with shield and mace equipped and bunch of defensive cds. Make sure he used Icebound, Antimagic Shell and trinket already, Stun > Wings = GG.

    WARRIOR

    Follow his stances. If he starts with Berserker Stance, prepare your freedom for his Intercept cause it's 2 second stun and Charge stuns for 1 sec. Kite his Retaliation to the death, don't you dare to touch him while knives are spinning and always spam jump when he is about to charge, while stunned in the air, you are still moving when falling down so jump vs warrior is very important, Use Repentence when he pops Enraged Regeneration cause he has to cancel his heal to remove Rep, while he is busy with that, you can heal once or twice.

    ROGUE

    This is your easiest match up. Shield + Mace, put sacred on and wait for their open, use Freedom on Kidney Shot and kite with Judgement of Justice, cleanse poisons and heal up. Very easy and simple. If you are fighting full PvE geared Combat Rogue, try to predict when they gonna pop Killing Spree then use Divine Protection and do the same thing you do vs Sub/Assassin Rogue.

    PALADIN (MIRROR)

    In mirror match up everything can happen if both players are experienced, but you can give your best to win. Start with Shield + Mace and use Seal of Corruption for fast stack, wait 5 stacks and trinket proc, switch back to 2h pop Hoj in combination with Arcane Torrent (too bad if you are human :D ...jk) Wings and nuke him down. If he does that before you, pop Divine Protection and Hand of Protection, use only Judgement and Crusader strike to not oom, spam heal and don't turn your back to him.


    GEAR




    Best in slot Gear


    Head: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Helm
    Shoulders: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Shoulders
    Chest: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Chestpiece
    Gloves: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets
    Legs: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Legguards
    Neck: Ahn'kahar Onyx Neckguard Heroic
    Cloack: Winding Sheet Heroic
    Wrists: Wrathful Gladiator's Bracers of Triumph
    Waist: Wrathful Gladiator's Girdle of Triumph
    Feets: Apocalypse's Advance Heroic
    Ring 1: Skeleton Lord's Circle Heroic
    Ring 2: Ashen Band of Endless Might
    Trinket 1: Death's Choice Heroic
    Trinket 2: Medallion of the Horde (or Death's Verdict Normal version if you are playing human)
    2h Weapon: Shadowmourne (Obviously) or Glorenzelg, High-Blade of the Silver Hand Heroic
    1h Weapon: Wrathful Gladiator's Salvation
    Shield: Wrathful Gladiator's Barrier
    Relic: Wrathful Gladiator's Libram of Justice for heal or Libram of Three Truths for damage (Depends of your playstyle)

    ENCHANTS & GEMS


    Head – Arcanum of Torment or Arcanum of Triumph
    Shoulder – Greater Inscription of the Axe or Inscription of Triumph
    Cloak – Enchant Cloak - Major Agility
    Chest – Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats
    Bracers – Enchant Bracers - Greater Assault
    Gloves – Enchant Gloves - Crusher
    Waist – Eternal Belt Buckle
    Legs – Icescale Leg Armor
    Boots – Enchant Boots - Greater Assault or Enchant Boots - Icewalker
    2H Weapon – Scroll of Enchant Weapon - Berserking
    1H Weapon – Scroll of Enchant Weapon - Mighty Spell Power
    Shield – Scroll of Enchant Shield - Resilience

    When talking about gems, first thing you want to do is to reach hit cap (5%) which is about 165 hit rating. When you reach hit cap you are going to stack Bold Cardinal Ruby (Strength) and Mystic King's Amber (Resilience). Str on red sockets, Resilience on yellow (Try to get minimum 1000 Resilience). As Meta gem, take Relentless Earthsiege Diamond for more crit. You only need one blue gem and that is Nightmare Tear which increases all stats +10.

    TALENTS AND GLYPHS


    In PvP there are many different tree builds depending on what kind of PvP you are playing, Arena, Battlegrounds or Duels.

    Arena/Battleground Build

    This talent tree can be used in bgs and arenas in combination with the next glyphs :

    Major Glyphs
    Glyph of Judgement
    Glyph of Righteousness
    Glyph of Turn Evil

    Minor Glyphs
    Glyph of Blessing of Might
    Glyph of Sense Undead
    Glyph of Blessing of Kings




    Anti-Mage-Hunter-Shaman Build

    This build goes together with high resilience setup and it's made to survive, save your mana and to oom your opponent, also works with the next glyphs :

    Major Glyphs
    Glyph of Command
    Glyph of Salvation
    Glyph of Judgement

    Minor Glyphs
    Glyph of Blessing of Might
    Glyph of Sense Undead
    Glyph of Blessing of the Wise




    PROFESSIONS




    • Engineering: Nitro Boots, Parachute, Cobalt Frag Bomb and Rocket Gloves - There are so many fun stuff for PvP in this profession :)

    • Tailoring: Swordguard embroidery - A cloak enchant which has a chance to grant you 400 attack power for 15 seconds.You lose the 22 agi back enchant, but it's worth it.
      Frostweave Net - Captures a target up to 35 yards away in a net for 3 sec, which can be very useful in duels, bgs, wpvp.

    • Cooking: Cooking will grant you valuable food buffs and can be very useful for duels and bgs. Definitly worth profession if you got time to spare to level this up.


    ARENA COMBOS



    2v2

    Marksmanship Hunter
    Definetly a really strong comb. The burst is stunning, the kiting abilities are op, loads of instant ccs and you as a ret can nearly outheal an enemy hpala when facing war/pala. You are basically strong against everything. In most cases use your cc early and line it up for a long cc chain which forces a lot of cds from your enemy. Usually you will cc the classes who can dispel (Priests, Paladins) if you are not facing dispelers, nuke the squishy ones and cc the tough ones. Do not let your hunter's pet die. Use your AOW procs and Cleanse when you need to rather than just doing damage.

    Discipline Priest
    Double dispel is the thing they can't deal with. It's the best anti-cc combo in game. When playing with disco, it's very important to peel for him because priest is very squishy class. Focus heal and cleanse him when needed. His job is to smash dispel button, spam mana burn when he has apportunity and follow the cc order. your job is to support him and do some sexy damage.

    Subtlety Rogue
    Another great cc combo. Good control but bad survivability. Good thing is, you both have high burst plus heals on target are 50% reduced because of rogues poisons. Tactic is simple. Keep a cc chain on X target and burst Y target. If you like fast games, then sub rogue is a big deal.

    Enhancment Shaman
    Who the hell needs cc here with so much burst, interrupts and purges, but if you are really cc lover, you can Hex > Rep > Hoj. You wont see this combo very often in arenas since Enha is really underplayed class on Icecrown.

    Mage
    This absolutely one of the best double dps combos in game next to Unh dk/sp. Mage in combination with ret can be godlike and untouchable. The only problem here is that it takes a lot of practice with your team mate to master it. CC is sick, damage is op, survivability is insane if played properly and its extremly fun combo.



    3v3

    In this case you have a team of 3, it's more difficult to follow the location of your team mates. You really need to be focused on cc order and use your cds smart as a team. I recommend playing on Blackrock to get some practice.

    • Scooby Doo Cleave: Ret - Rogue Rdruid/RSham

    • PHP: Ret - MM Hunter - Disco Priest

    • Cupid Cleave: Ret - Hunter - Healer (Non-Priest)

    • Freedom Cleave: Ret - Dk - Hpal


    5v5

    How it feels to que 5s...

    So don't even try it

    ADDONS


    • Aesa - Awsome addon for tracking your targets cooldowns and your focus.

    • SoundAlerter - Addon that alerts the player of enemy casted spells via voice alert.

    • SnowfallkeyPress - When you are pressing buttons in the game, the spell goes off when the button is released not when it's pressed. This makes spells activate faster.

    • LoseControl - This helpful addon can be optimized to display big icons on your unitframe, your partners, your enemies or your focus when they are struck by any kind of CC. I.e...If your partner got blinded, it will show an icon of blind picture near his frame, showing a clock-like timer on the icon to how long it will take until the CC is over.
    Edited: March 2, 2018



  2. Retribution PvP Guide 3.3.5 by Domestos

    • Hey Domestos, how much resilience do you have? It always depends whom I am dueling. If i am dueling a hunter, mage or shaman, Im not going below 1300 resilience with shield equipped. The explanation is simple, the more time required to catch them, the more time needed to survive.
      Against a warrior, dk, feral/balance druid, priest, mirror, you don't need more than 1k resilience.
    This is very situational and personal preference. It's always better to be above 1k resilience even as a human. Closer to 1100 as non-human.

    Using the resilience set (1300+ resil + one-hand and shield) should be used against rogues, warriors, hunters, feral - at start and switch only when you want to damage them, if they pop any of the offensive cds switch back. Warrior is kind of required to be fought in high resilience unless you just HoJ and Wings him and hope that you do more damage than he does... Which would be just...

    Normal resilience set and one-hand and shield is useful against DK as starting setup and Enchancement Shaman (you just sit in 1h+shield the whole duel and they can't really do much against you).
    Against elemental high resilience is a big no, it's ok to start with one-hand and shield so you can spam cleanse but the same moment you get closer to him you need to go to 2h, and as to never using high resilience set there is because then elemental is just going to healbot your damage and slowly kill you because you can't keep the pressure on him. Best elemental shaman is the one that gets so much pressure he has to cast heals instead of casting spells at you because you're slapping tons of damage on top of his head.

    MAGE

    Dueling a mage can be very frustrating.The only way to beat good mage is to oom him. Switch shield and mace when he has his offensive cds up, keep healing on mirror image and water elemental and ALWAYS rebuff and use Might instead of Kings, that's really important cause he loses more mana stealing your buffs than you do and second very important thing, use Seal and Glyph of Command and you will never oom . Save freedom for deep freeze and trinket for a moment when he's gonna use Evocation, also use Art of War procs on Flash on Light, if you don't get procs, try to fakecast his Counter Spell then heal up. You also need 1300-1400 resilience for this adventure.
    This just sounds like too much duel hero - making spec with SoC and glyph for it just to use it in a duel with mages is a bit far fetched. Then again even on high resilience if you're fighting a frost mage without any kind of LoS you can just /forfeit because you have really no possible way of reaching him if he knows what he's doing and you're not using nitro or free action potion.
    Better option in LoS areas is to get a few crafted level 80 items with frost resistance. They help a lot more, altho even then you need to get really lucky.

    Best in slot (BIS) Gear


    Head: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Helm
    Shoulders: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Shoulders
    Chest: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Chestpiece
    Gloves: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets
    Legs: Wrathful Gladiator's Scaled Legguards
    Neck: Ahn'kahar Onyx Neckguard Heroic
    Cloack: Winding Sheet Heroic
    Wrists: Wrathful Gladiator's Bracers of Triumph
    Waist: Wrathful Gladiator's Girdle of Triumph
    Feets: Apocalypse's Advance Heroic
    Ring 1: Skeleton Lord's Circle Heroic
    Ring 2: Ashen Band of Endless Might
    Trinket 1: Death's Choice Heroic
    Trinket 2: Medallion of the Horde (or Death's Verdict Normal version if you are playing human)
    2h Weapon: Shadowmourne (Obviously)
    1h Weapon: Wrathful Gladiator's Salvation
    Shield: Wrathful Gladiator's Barrier
    Relic: Wrathful Gladiator's Libram of Justice for heal or Libram of Three Truths for damage (Depends of your playstyle)
    Having only a Shadowmourne as a two hand weapon is bad, especially if you're going to play arenas. Having a Wrathful Claymore is a great deal of help, also it might be useful more than Shadowmourne in certain encounters (Excluding arena, on higher MMR Claymore > Smourne).
    Second trinket for Human paladins doesn't have to be Death's Verdict normal, Whispered Fangered Skull heroic is a lot better trinket than DVn, because it gives one of the very important stats to a Retribution Paladin, crit. Then there's a debate about using a certain agility items as ret (ring, cloak) which also should've been mentioned. Which leads me to next thing.

    I think that you should've named your guide a "Retribution Duel Guide 3.3.5 by Domestos" because this might be a bit misleading.
    There was literally zero mention of any stats the Paladin can go for, no talents shown in the post (or few talent setups people can go for as Retribution), no glyphs listed, no helpful addons mention, not a single useful macro for a Retribution paladin, this is a very bare bone and unnecessary guide which doesn't even try to 'compete' with other guides, especially Lyneas.
    You barely mentioned any useful info and just wrote down things that most people realize after a few weeks of DUELING. And on top of that you didn't even bother with arena stats or tactics, or at least tried to mention good comps that go with Retribution.

    And for the end, you didn't even write fully duel tactics - how to start duels against certain classes - such as one-hand and shield against feral, or DK in start to cleanse his diseases, using Repentance on Shadow Priest, moving to him while using trash buffs (Hand of Salvation, Divine plea) just to HoJ + Wings him (and silence if Blood Elf) and raining down hell on his head. But no, you just wrote general information which as I said above anyone would figure out after a few days/weeks of dueling.

    All in all, very unnecessary guide and filled with barely any useful information. If there was rate system for guides I wouldn't give it more than 2 out of 10.
    Edited: February 28, 2018 Reason: Fixed typos and added more info

  3. Hello. This is very interesting what you have written but unfortunately I haven't had the time to finish this guide. Everything that I have written is from my personal experience and it served me well. This resilience setup worked best for me, I realised after thousands of tests on very experienced players what is the best setup to beat each class. You also mentioned what I said about dueling a mage, I just revealed the way to beat them cause I haven't seen other people do it. If you think it's impossible, why don't you try this out and see whether this is possible or not. I will say it's very possible without LOS because I have done it to 2.4k+ rated mages. As a ret. paladin you need a weapon based on strength because you have more benefit from talents, buffs etc. than Wrathful Claymore as you said. If someone can't afford Shadowmourne, he/she should atleast have a Glorenzelg. Finally, this guide was made in order to motivate other players to try new ways of playing ret. paladin and see whether this playstyle will serve them well. If you think what I have written is unnecessary then try writing your own guide rather than making a lengthy comment about something that should be subjective to every player .Thus, someone might actually find this to be helpful while playing as you can see in the comments for this guide. You can look me up and see how many times I have beaten players using everything I have written in this ''unnecessary guide."

  4. Awsome guide with comic phrases. Keep it up :)

  5. Lyneas guide - you can look it up - is one of the most complete guides on this forum, I am not making my own guide because I don't have much to add on top of her guide, so it'd be just one more 'random' guide next to the good ones.

    If you're beating frost mages without LoS, then you really aren't dueling the good ones, also rating doesn't mean much these days because of the character sales etc. Then there's also a point to making a spec literally dedicated to fighting frost mages... in DUELS... I just fail to see the point of it, I'd rather have say Holy PvP spec, but to each their own. Still the point applies, you really aren't fighting the good frost mages if they don't kite you into Narnia in a no-LoS zone. With LoS as I said, it's quite possible to get a frost mage, it just requires patience and whatnot.

    Also, most of this stuff that you've written is basic stuff that most people realize themselves after dueling for a while, some take a bit longer to get familiar with other classes, some don't. And all this stuff has been covered quantrillion of times. So I just said that you're guide is quite unnecessary one because it doesn't add anything new on top of tons of other 'random' guides. The same topic has been covered a ton of times.

    Using Gloren in arena instead of Wrathful Claymore is a total fail by the way, it'll never be a better arena weapon than Claymore. Shadowmourne is okay in arena, but it depends on what you're fighting and if you're getting focused. You don't want random Chaos Bane breaking your/your partners CC, sure, you could use macro to cancel Soul stacks but to make it worth while you'd have to bind it with some of your spells, and that brings us to being unable to do Chaos Bane when you'd want to.
    And if you're the one getting hit, Claymore will greatly help while not reducing your damage output by half. (Unless of course, you're being heavily focused and you have to change to one-hand and shield.)


    Now talent related, I wouldn't be using those talents for arenas - a spec with 40s HoJ for arena is just nobrainer, also I'd take 1 point of Divinity over Toughness any day.

    For arena I'd take this spec any day over that of yours if you want to get any higher rating. Also putting one point in Vindication, even tho it doesn't seem as useful, is actually a quite good 'trash' debuff so your enemy has harder time dispelling the thing he wants to dispell.

    As for BG's, I'd go with that spec of yours, but a bit tweaked with Divinity and Vindication as well. Also, as far as BGs go, taking Turn Evil glyph isn't of much use unless you're 1v1'ing someone around, which happens, but not as often for it to be useful. For that, there's a Glyph of Salvation which gives you another defensive CD in term of 20% damage reduction is a lot better option (useful when 1v1'ing as well in BGs). That way, activating it along with Divine Protection and Divine Sacrifice you can get 90% damage reduction. And it's amazing for tanking in BGs in the front line or just surviving.
    Edited: March 1, 2018 Reason: Typos

  6. @Evangelion

    His guide is rather ok, there is really no need for these kind of comments.
    When it comes to PvP, everyone have their own BiS list, Spec, and/or some other crap...
    At the end of the day, what works, works, and couple of talents wont make a diference.
    The more guides u have on pvp topic the better, since if people agree on something, it makes it more valid, and if they disagree, it leaves players an oportunity to test them both and see which one works more for them.

    As for this spec is bad/good for high rating, thats bullcrap from my pov.
    U will never get nor do good at high rate in any arena or on any server if u just read a guide (as a new player).
    U need to watch and listen to Glads, or people that are alrdy on that high rate, no hard feelings to anyone...

  7. As for this spec is bad/good for high rating, thats bullcrap from my pov.
    U will never get nor do good at high rate in any arena or on any server if u just read a guide (as a new player).
    U need to watch and listen to Glads, or people that are alrdy on that high rate, no hard feelings to anyone...
    Of course that you won't get high rating just by reading a guide, but having a good spec is a good place to start. Not using 40s HoJ could only work in full bis gear where you just smash through enemy teams, and if you know how to play, but even then on higher mmr/rating not having 40s HoJ is a huge handicap, especially when fighting healers, it allows for more stuns and more pressure. I personally outside of arena never play with 40s HoJ because I love those few % of <DAMAGE> more but I mainly do BGs and WPvP since I rarely log these days.
    Also even listening/watching Glads won't help you before you get to know your class and enemy classes.

    His guide is rather ok, there is really no need for these kind of comments.
    When it comes to PvP, everyone have their own BiS list, Spec, and/or some other crap...
    At the end of the day, what works, works, and couple of talents wont make a diference.
    The more guides u have on pvp topic the better, since if people agree on something, it makes it more valid, and if they disagree, it leaves players an oportunity to test them both and see which one works more for them.
    What kind are they? I wasn't attacking him, his guide - pre edit - was so basic and barebones it didn't serve much purpose. I just went and gave my critics to a guide he made which he posted here because I don't think that it's a very good guide, so I went and pointed at the stuff I don't think is right. He missed many of the important points (read: didn't write them at all in the pre-edit guide - he posted it a week ago and I saw it the same day, but I waited a week before commenting in case he changes anything - which he didn't do until I posted).
    I've never seen him play either, but according to his armory the character is 3 years old.

    And I didn't say that *you* shouldn't make PvP guides, but if you don't have literally anything to add on top of the existing ones or make halfassed guides that take 15-20 minutes to be made.... then just don't do it.

  8. He is constantly editing it from the moment he posted it, i remember it beeing just a sentance or two at start. :D
    I guess he just needs more time to finish it... Belive me, text only guide without any colors and imgs takes 15-20min, his most likely didnt.
    I really love all the funny imgs he posted in it and the way he wrote it all, wish i had the will and time to do something like it for DK ones. :D
    Good or not, his guide is worth reading, if nothing else just to remind urself of the things u could forget and to see some memes...

    Only reason i posted is cos of one thing u said: "There is alrdy a good Ret PvP guide on these forums."
    Yet, both u, him and Lyneas guide disagree when it comes to how much resil u should go for... :D

    Edit:
    I also disagree with Lyneas gear list, for example, when it comes to Rings, where ICC HC ring is a lot better than Wrathful one...
    Thats one example why u should have another guide telling people what they can also use.

    Hell, i wouldve made guides for each class and spec (exept shamans as a whole class, and all healers) if i had the time since a lot of guides here forget some crucial things sometimes...
    Edited: March 1, 2018

  9. Only reason i posted is cos of one thing u said: "There is alrdy a good Ret PvP guide on these forums."
    Yet, both u, him and Lyneas guide disagree when it comes to how much resil u should go for... :D
    Resilience isn't something you can put a right number on, it comes down to a personal preference, I have multiple resilience sets - 1080 resil, 1250 resil, 1300 resil, 850 resil and 0 resil for PvP. (BGs, WPvP), it comes down to a situation in which I decide which set I'm going to use, also in all of them something is changed, be it weapons or offset, or set items and they're all for different situations.

    I also disagree with Lyneas gear list, for example, when it comes to Rings, where ICC HC ring is a lot better than Wrathful one...
    Thats one example why u should have another guide telling people what they can also use.
    Depends on your arena team WF ring can be better, especially in a double DPS comb with Wrathful Claymore as well, for BGs/WPvP I'd always go with Skeleton Lord's Circle.

  10. Only reason i posted is cos of one thing u said: "There is alrdy a good Ret PvP guide on these forums."
    Yet, both u, him and Lyneas guide disagree when it comes to how much resil u should go for... :D
    I have the feeling that you're calling my guide out to try and incite a response from me. But if you're going to make comments about my guide, I'd suggest you go and actually read it first. Nowhere in the guide is a specific number placed on resilience. In fact, the guide makes it a point that there is a range of preferences for amounts of resiliences and offers recommendations (at most) on the stat.

    Edit:
    I also disagree with Lyneas gear list, for example, when it comes to Rings, where ICC HC ring is a lot better than Wrathful one...
    Thats one example why u should have another guide telling people what they can also use.
    First of all, there is not a gear list in my guide. Secondly, a recommendation is offered to use the Ashen Verdict ring and the Wrathful one. Nowhere is it stated that any ring is better than other rings. If you want to use double PvE rings, nobody gives a ****, least of all me.
    X ring being better than Y ring is a quote from someone in years past that contributed to the guide, and was given as an argument to support the Wrathful ring. If you don't care about resilience, again, nobody gives a ****. Go ahead and go full paper mode and have fun, nobody will care. Nevermind that the agility ring mentioned in that quote isn't even the one you're talking about, as it's a reference to the agility version of the Ashen Verdict ring.

    Lastly, if you want to discuss my guide, it would probably be best to have that discussion on my guide's thread. Not derailing this one.
    Hell, i wouldve made guides for each class and spec (exept shamans as a whole class, and all healers) if i had the time since a lot of guides here forget some crucial things sometimes...
    I'm glad you don't. Especially considering that would send the message to writers of existing guides that you don't think their guides are worth contributing to or improving upon. That's not drama I'd care to have to clean up.




    @Rope4, could you use less color in the guide? It's difficult to read because of that.

  11. "Aim for 800-1200 of this stat. 1200 being optimal, 800 being the minimum."
    From my pov, recomending item X instead of item Y, automaticly means that item X is better.

    I was simply using his example to prove my point, "the more guides the better". And i only said anything about it cos Evangelion used it as his example how this guide is unescesary, I wouldnt have said anything about it otherwise (would commented and compared the two guides long ago if i wanted to, when he made it).
    The only diference, and the reason u are hostile towards me, is that he agrees with ur guide on all points, while i disagree on some...

    As for guides, i simply belive they lack some crucial parts like visualisation of rotations and some min max tips and tricks that i could add myself.

    Lastly, i dont get why u found urself to be offended, making a guide doesnt mean everyone will love it and fully agree with it, so u should be prepared to take some criticism and diferent opinions.
    Edited: March 2, 2018

  12. @Rope4, could you use less color in the guide? It's difficult to read because of that.
    Hello, Mercy, I deliberately put some of the colours such as pink and purple to coincide with the class of Paladin. I wanted to make text different and experiment just to see how it would fit with the text. Thanks for the advice, though. :)
    Edited: March 1, 2018 Reason: Fixed quote

  13. He is constantly editing it from the moment he posted it, i remember it beeing just a sentance or two at start. :D
    I guess he just needs more time to finish it... Belive me, text only guide without any colors and imgs takes 15-20min, his most likely didnt.
    I really love all the funny imgs he posted in it and the way he wrote it all, wish i had the will and time to do something like it for DK ones. :D
    Good or not, his guide is worth reading, if nothing else just to remind urself of the things u could forget and to see some memes...
    Hi Gnimo, I'm glad you noticed that I'm constantly upgrading this guide and that you liked it, I'm especially glad that you like the memes, I just wanted to make this more fun. Thanks for the support :)

12 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •