Future of PVE on outlands

[ZpiXDK]

As a new player I would like to enjoy the old content, but lower rep from revered to honored for entering HC's dosn't sounds that bad. But the item shop just sounds lame, on retail it was easy to have 2-3 raid geared chars, when in a good guild, so don't see the reason for that?

We all knew the content of the game, before we start playing, so we knew how it's going to be (:

[ryneth]

I really enjoy raiding in tbc, i wonder why to bother when bis items are really cheap on ah so even the freshly 70s have almost bis items on that. I believe items being actually so cheap on the store kinda kills the spirit of TBC and even raiding. This also ends up making raiding environment bad because people who don't have a clue about the bosses enter a raid and wipe you million times when you actually put in time and effort into coming there. Overall, I'm not against purchasable items but it kinda triggers me when fresh 70s have archi weapons.

[Ostlimpa]

I really enjoy raiding in tbc, i wonder why to bother when bis items are really cheap on ah so even the freshly 70s have almost bis items on that. I believe items being actually so cheap on the store kinda kills the spirit of TBC and even raiding.

A lot of crafting items are BiS for a long time indeed and there is little to do about that. As for the shop, it is there and will always be there, it's the project's lifeblood (also people were briefed about it at launch). Also it does not kill the spirit. After all why should it? The only thing the store solves is the issue of time to acquire the gear, the difficulty is long gone since players are so experienced.

This also ends up making raiding environment bad because people who don't have a clue about the bosses enter a raid and wipe you million times when you actually put in time and effort into coming there. Overall, I'm not against purchasable items but it kinda triggers me when fresh 70s have archi weapons.

Sounds very much to me like you are against purchasable items since you complain about people who have bought items.
Now obviously you can run into problems when you group with a PUG but this occurs no matter what the expansion is and even people who are knowledged can fail in pugs for a lot of reasons.

The shop was delayed on purpose to give people time to enjoy their raiding gear and in addition to that, the prices were jacked up a lot to prevent too much gear from coming out. It runs on the same line as Icecrown, and the Icecrown server works like a charm, despite its shop being both cheaper and with full gear access. Despite complaints from here and there, the server is still standing strong.

[spraynard]

I really enjoy raiding in tbc, i wonder why to bother when bis items are really cheap on ah so even the freshly 70s have almost bis items on that. I believe items being actually so cheap on the store kinda kills the spirit of TBC and even raiding. This also ends up making raiding environment bad because people who don't have a clue about the bosses enter a raid and wipe you million times when you actually put in time and effort into coming there. Overall, I'm not against purchasable items but it kinda triggers me when fresh 70s have archi weapons.

Now look what you did. You summoned the defender of all things shop related, to make lengthy posts which don't make coherent points. Beware.

Also it does not kill the spirit. After all why should it? The only thing the store solves is the issue of time to acquire the gear, the difficulty is long gone since players are so experienced.

It runs on the same line as Icecrown, and the Icecrown server works like a charm

Despite complaints from here and there, the server is still standing strong.

Strong points....

And don't you dare disagree or you'll get another 3-4 paragraphs full of red-herrings, fallacies and grasping at straws from a player who by all accounts does not even raid and thus has no standing to comment on how PvE is affected by anything.

my progress in "raiding" was done the first 3 months of the server release

Here's one if his greatest hits.

With that said, people here aren't too decked out. For even if one can acquire the epics, one still needs to enchant and epic gem the pieces.

Why does he do this you ask? That may for ever remain a mystery.

No I do it out of pure spite.

I imagine you will faint when you realise that SWP gear and legendaries will be on the store in the future then, just like on Icecrown.

this is probably not the server for you.

Just deal with it.

I look forward for the day Glaives and SWP gear comes on the store. Out of pure spite.

[Ostlimpa]

Why does he do this you ask? That may for ever remain a mystery.

I'll make this one short then.
I do this in order to try to make you folks realise that the very shop that you complain about can be your greatest asset.
The pure spite from me is due to the fact that you cry like kids about how the shop spoils this and ruins that and will doom the server. But if the things you people complain about would indeed be true, how the blazes do you explain how Icecrown has managed to stay alive all these years? Why is Lordaeron still up? Why did Neltharion not die because of the shop?
Instead of whining about things that are based on pure jealousy, use the shop to your advantage and reap its benefits, for there are more than one way to do so.

[Novakayne]

I'll make this one short then.
I do this in order to try to make you folks realise that the very shop that you complain about can be your greatest asset.
The pure spite from me is due to the fact that you cry like kids about how the shop spoils this and ruins that and will doom the server. But if the things you people complain about would indeed be true, how the blazes do you explain how Icecrown has managed to stay alive all these years? Why is Lordaeron still up? Why did Neltharion not die because of the shop?
Instead of whining about things that are based on pure jealousy, use the shop to your advantage and reap its benefits, for there are more than one way to do so.

cmon dude, you're talking to the guy that thinks randomly getting instantly killed by mother is fine

no chance of winning against that amount of toothlessness

[spraynard]

cmon dude, you're talking to the guy that thinks randomly getting instantly killed by mother is fine

no chance of winning against that amount of toothlessness

I think a lot of those "random" deaths aren't so random. People in that thread are using tanks who stack avoidance with 20k hp. Then they get mad when they get two-shot at some point during a 10 minute fight. Does that make sense to you?

Not that it can't happen, it definitely can, and I agree that it sucks when it does. But there's probably 20 other bug fixes or tuning changes that I would rank higher on a list than that.

[Novakayne]

I think a lot of those "random" deaths aren't so random. People in that thread are using tanks who stack avoidance with 20k hp. Then they get mad when they get two-shot at some point during a 10 minute fight. Does that make sense to you?

Not that it can't happen, it definitely can, and I agree that it sucks when it does. But there's probably 20 other bug fixes or tuning changes that I would rank higher on a list than that.

the "random" deaths are actually random and unavoidable

a tank should NEVER be able to instantly die from full hp but unfortunately there are monkeys like you that say it's fine and even ask for buffs for an already extremely overtuned raid

[manturan]

I don't understand why the attunements are still here. If you look at the original wow timeline Black Temple was release 5/22/2007. Then on 6/19/2007 blizzard released a hotfix which reads as follows.

"After a lot of thought and deliberation, we’ve decided to remove the attunement requirements to enter Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep: The Eye. While many of our attunements in the Burning Crusade have been good progression checks, a few of the attunements have turned out to cause unnecessary stress on guilds either doing the content or attempting to do the content. With Black Temple and Battle for Mount Hyjal thriving, we want to encourage (rather than prevent) new guilds and raid groups to attempt Serpentshrine and TK. We are going to leave the current attunement quests in the game so that players can still engage in the challenge and the lore of those quests should they choose to. At a later point, we are considering adding a final reward step to those quests as well (that way those who have already completed them would not miss out on a *new* reward)."

[spraynard]

the "random" deaths are actually random and unavoidable

a tank should NEVER be able to instantly die from full hp but unfortunately there are monkeys like you that say it's fine and even ask for buffs for an already extremely overtuned raid

Idk.... somehow we manage to kill it every week in one or two tries. And we just 1 shot her this week so, like I said.... if you're struggling THAT hard maybe you should look for ways to improve how you do the fight. Random deaths can happen but they are few and far between. If this isn't the case for your guild, then there are places you can improve. What is your healer setup? What is your tank group? What class is your MT? How much health/avoidance does he have with raid buffs? Etc....

[Novakayne]

Idk.... somehow we manage to kill it every week in one or two tries. And we just 1 shot her this week so, like I said.... if you're struggling THAT hard maybe you should look for ways to improve how you do the fight. Random deaths can happen but they are few and far between. If this isn't the case for your guild, then there are places you can improve. What is your healer setup? What is your tank group? What class is your MT? How much health/avoidance does he have with raid buffs? Etc....

don't really understand what your point has to do with my point when my point is that you can RANDOMLY lose to things completely out of your control

that doesn't mean you lose randomly to this kind of thing EVERY TIME like you seem to think i'm implying

congratz on trying to brag that your guild can kill stuff i guess?

[spraynard]

don't really understand what your point has to do with my point when my point is that you can RANDOMLY lose to things completely out of your control

that doesn't mean you lose randomly to this kind of thing EVERY TIME like you seem to think i'm implying

congratz on trying to brag that your guild can kill stuff i guess?

I think you can make this kind of complaint about almost any fight though. I don't see why you think it's so much worse on Mother. All of your top dps got chosen first on Gorefiend and you hit enrage? Wiped to RNG. Council combos your whole melee group with flamestrike, blizzard, and consecrate? Wiped to RNG. Hydross landed a 1% chance unresisted hit on your tank? Wiped to RNG. Kael'thas MCs an offtank at the start of phase 4. Wiped to RNG.

There's a lot of RNG on this server. If it happens too much then I agree that it is really bad. The Illidan bug is really bad. Mother is only borderline though. At least from what I've seen of her.

If she got nerfed a little bit it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But I think there are a lot of guilds (seen some streams) who play this fight terribly and it really is their own fault that they wipe. Bad positioning, bad tank setup, bad debuff uptime, etc...

[Novakayne]

I think you can make this kind of complaint about almost any fight though. I don't see why you think it's so much worse on Mother. All of your top dps got chosen first on Gorefiend and you hit enrage? Wiped to RNG. Council combos your whole melee group with flamestrike, blizzard, and consecrate? Wiped to RNG. Hydross landed a 1% chance unresisted hit on your tank? Wiped to RNG. Kael'thas MCs an offtank at the start of phase 4. Wiped to RNG.

There's a lot of RNG on this server. If it happens too much then I agree that it is really bad. The Illidan bug is really bad. Mother is only borderline though. At least from what I've seen of her.

If she got nerfed a little bit it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But I think there are a lot of guilds (seen some streams) who play this fight terribly and it really is their own fault that they wipe. Bad positioning, bad tank setup, bad debuff uptime, etc...

yeah except for the fact that in all of those situations you listed you can still continue the attempt, except for maybe hydross

when mother insta-kills your MT you have a small chance of killing her if she is at 5% + she goes on an offtank + you have people suiciding infront of her

not to mention the fight is 50x longer than it should be because everyone is forced to wear SR gear (which i believe wasn't necessary on retail) due to overtuning

my guild also did t5 content for much longer than the amount of time BT has been out and i can tell you that our tanks on hydross definitely were not insta-killed as much as on mother. hydross is also a much shorter fight, and i think we also need to take into consideration that mother is a boss that every guild will be killing every single week until they quit the server because you obviously never stop doing BT

an extra layer of overtuned bull**** that you know you'll have to deal with every week until you're done playing on the server is not a fun thing

[Ostlimpa]

I don't understand why the attunements are still here. If you look at the original wow timeline Black Temple was release 5/22/2007. Then on 6/19/2007 blizzard released a hotfix which reads as follows.

"After a lot of thought and deliberation, we’ve decided to remove the attunement requirements to enter Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep: The Eye. While many of our attunements in the Burning Crusade have been good progression checks, a few of the attunements have turned out to cause unnecessary stress on guilds either doing the content or attempting to do the content. With Black Temple and Battle for Mount Hyjal thriving, we want to encourage (rather than prevent) new guilds and raid groups to attempt Serpentshrine and TK. We are going to leave the current attunement quests in the game so that players can still engage in the challenge and the lore of those quests should they choose to. At a later point, we are considering adding a final reward step to those quests as well (that way those who have already completed them would not miss out on a *new* reward)."

Because you got people ignoring this fact. You can see my reasoning in the thread. It does not exactly seem to reach out to them.