unluckily for you it's the staff's view that matters.
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Forum Veteran
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Member
what are you 12 ?
i didn't say i was going to ignore him neither did i say i was right....
my views are different and what i say and what he says are never going to be the same hence me no longer
participating in the thread.
you on the other hand have tried to manipulate what I've said like some little kid on **** steering mission
climb back under your rock.
yep and thats what goes, no different than a objecting to what your government would do
you may not agree but what they say goes.Edited: March 3, 2018
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Member
The fact that you could even say something like "my opinion WILL NEVER be the same as his" just proves how stupid you actually are mate. You are so stubborn that you can't even consider other PoVs, you are the kind of person who is NEVER wrong. Somehow people who are never wrong are dead-set convinced that calling someone a kid is the biggest insult there is, it's actually kinda funny.
Have you not said you WON'T visit this thread again? : )
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Member
You don't see how stupid you really are.
Let me help you out on your "taken out of context post"
where did i say we will ... (in your words - NOT MINE) NEVER be the same as his ?????
Not the same thing "young man"
Not once did i say i will NEVER have the same opinion as mercy. I just don't on this subject. and i'm fully entitled to have a difference of opinion whether i'm right or wrong.
as for visiting this thread. the page was still open on my iPad and your poor attempt at trying to be a **** stirring kid and take things out of context failed
If we all lived in a world like yours nobody would ever have a say or disagreement because it wouldn't be allowed by you.
they call these people "dictators"
Now i figured out i'm arguen with a child your not worthy of another response.
oh.. and i'm not your "mate"Edited: March 3, 2018
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Member
"my views are different and what i say and what he says are never going to be the same hence me..." I literally copy-pasted this from your comment. This is where you said your opinion will NEVER (Your words, not mine) be the same as his.
I am 100% for discussions and different opinions, you are the one who don't like them LOL. Once several people disagree with you, you instantly said "i wont be visiting this thread again as clearly your views are different to mine." (again, a copy-paste). Which means you don't like discussions and you don't like people who disagree with you. Which means you are "the dictator" here.
The fact that you can't write a single argument without a pathetic attempt to insult me only proves how right I am. Nothing I write is personal, "not-mate". I don't WANT you to feel bad. Just learn to use argument in a discussion instead of insults. : )
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Field Medic Moderator
But you are being selfish the very moment that you decide that, as a healer, you need a DPS weapon more than the DPS does, and take it from them without asking them first. The polite thing to do would be to ask first. Being kind goes a long way. Who knows, he could've said "Yeah! Sure thing buddy!" and maybe you could have become friends afterward.
But you're not going to make friends if you put yourself at odds with everyone else and take things because you feel you can and can get away with it.
It is a very good comparison though. Agility provides dodge and armor to tanks. Haste, crit and armor pen are also threat-generation stats. In fact, all of the stats on an agility weapon are MORE useful to a tank than hit rating is to heal-specced Priest.
Isn't that why you created this thread on the public forum, though? To see what other people's views are?
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Member
In every dungeons i run and see an upgrade for my gear, before deciding to click need, I would inspect other peoples gear 1st and not needing the item instantly.
Mercy was right, the moment you clicked need on the item without considering or bothering to check the other priests gear 1st is a selfish act, and you were really lucky back there when GM's decided not hit you with the 5 day ban hammer, instead you could've accepted or welcomed these constructive criticisms from a moderator as a way of a thankful gesture the least. GM's are rarely being lenient with regards on your issue.
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Member
I hope OP loses a *healer" item to a DPS in the future and rages about it. Would love to see that. Tit for tat.
Edit: Hope a GM gives him a 5 day ban anyways. xD
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Forum Veteran
OP dodged a bullet.
It should have gone to the DPS who needed it, and I do understand his (the DPS') frustration over a healer needing a clear DPS item.
You had a chance to be a better human being and given it to him, despite his perfectly justified raging. Yet you didn't, so people here disagree with your (poor) choice.
The fight for gear is hard as it is in FoS PoS grinding, nobody wants their items taken by somebody who isn't MS for them.
Yes, it may have been an upgrade for you since discipline priests need that spell power more than anything, and that int is nice too. However for the DPS the staff is way bigger upgrade. Hit is most important stat for fresh level 80 DPS' to get capped, combining that with haste and spell power for shadow priest it's one of the best staves out there.
You were selfish, you dodged a ban and people generally disagree with you in this case for a very good reason. That's not a reason to go insult people either way. Read the feedback you got and although you may disagree with most of it, try to see their points and improve from that.
Let it go.
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Banned
It seems that it's really easy to get a ban for ninja on this server. I wasn't rly fan of ppl, who pushed the need-button on retail server for items, which they wanted to disenchant or sell at vendor, but this reaction against the TE is also wrong.
Firstly the TE didn't roll on a staff which he couldn't use. He rolled on one which had int as main and hit as second stat. Hit isn't only a dps-stat but rather a stat for healers especially in pvp or for disc as well.
Secondly it depends on your and the other one's gear too. When you have a green bad weapon and someone has an epic weapon, then it's legitimate to improve yours more as someone, who improves his gs for a low amount (same stat)
And it depends on the ppl's performance. I had many autohitter, one-spell-user or follower, who were afk half of the time. These ppl are more promoted to get this item as someone, who was more responsable for the success.
This practice in the posts above me guides people to refuse every loot, because they could get a ban for everything. A hunter could enforce a ban for a enhancer shaman, because he needs crit more as the other one is needing...
It's also another problem to kick other people bcz the chance is higher to get items. It was a daily thing to start kicks on retail, so that a second person who needs the same stat, is getting kicked out of grp. People often confirm it, no matter whether the reason was correct or not (afk, noob, ninja, puller...).
Btw who's not selfish in this game and tries to improve his char rather than giving up items/mounts? It's easy to show on other ppl's egoism as the own one.
Kind regards
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Field Medic Moderator
Budgeting for hit rating with such a low-ilvl PvE weapon is a bad idea. Need rolling for an off-spec would be fine too. Even so, still should have asked first. Being polite never hurt anyone. Doing anything but invites the other person to be upset. Getting upset because the other person unsurprisingly got upset is silly.
No, it doesn't. If you're in a guild, doing loot council for giving out items. Sure. But that's not how the game works in a PUG environment. This is something that could be taken into consideration if the two players in question decided to open a dialogue about the item. But such didn't happen. One just decided that they were going to take it and **** the other person.
If you think this justifies you for taking items from someone, that's your own decision. But it is not an ethical decision.
But this point does remind me of something. Back when I still used to raid on here, people would only allow the "top 5 dps" to roll on items like Deathbringer's Will. I always thought that rule was awful. Especially if those top 5 are near-BIS geared players. It's exactly the same as PUG raid leaders expecting people to have achievements and gear on their group-mates before those people have even had the chance to do the content in question.
If you don't understand the issue here, then I don't know w hat to tell you.
Pro tip: Kindness goes a long way. Treating your fellow players like garbage won't earn you any favors. Also, never hurts to ask.
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Member
Personal stance: I agree primarily with what Mercy et al are saying - It's a dick move to need roll something like a DPS staff as a healer, against a DPS...
It's rude, mean-spirited, or at the VERY best case scenario: flatly ignorant. The character traits the OP revealed as this thread went on has called fowl onto his listed intentions and shown that his character is of much weaker moral fiber...
All the above aside: strictly speaking about the ban policy: It is my understanding that something is only bannable if you go outside of the RDF rules to roll on items.... If a BiS tank rolls need on all tank drops (That they clearly do not need), it is not protected by the 'ninja' bannable offense policy, since the need button was available to them per RDF...
Will these moves make you friends? No. Are the morally right? No...
I'm NOT a GM - Do not take my word as law - But I do believe that if you can click the 'need' button, it is not bannable (as it was described to me in previous cases as well as several writings on the forum).
Caveat to any other caveats in my post: GMs are individuals. They are humans... Especially on a free server where they graciously donate their time, there is a lack of uniform response and ones ruling may be very different from another.
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Banned
Dear Mercy
I understand what you want to tell and ninjaing was a big problem on retail, but it's also the wrong way to convict the TE for a subjective case. No one could clearly say here in forum, if the TE acted correctly or not. My point of view is, that he didn't ninja an item, that he has the permission to roll on. He could also use hit rather than a shadow is needing. But people roll on the item especially because they are getting a gs push, more int and more haste. Hit isn't really essential to push the "need"-button for the disc, but what's the consequence? Having a green item for the next weeks, because the second stat hit can give you a ban? I understand, that it's not the bis-staff for a disc, but it's better as a green weapon. We also don't know, if the shadow is selling the staff a bit later as well (because someone wrote before, that the TE is selling the staff after he gets a better one).
Mercy, your opinion is, that the TE steals the item of the shadow, that's why you justify your indictment, but this is subjective. The TE has the permission to roll on the item, that has int as main stat. The whole discussion is because of the hit-rating and that a shadow could use hit more rather than a disc. You must change the roll system to make it clear for everyone.
I give you an example: There were 3 dragons in different colours and I had 2. Now the third one was dropping and me and another guy rolled on that mount. I won the mount and people convict me now, because I aready had the black and the blue dragon, while the other guy didn't have any of them, so that I didn't have the permission to roll on the green third one.
Conversation is an important thing, that's correct, but rolling on items wasn't created to ask people's assent in rdf/loot system need before greed after every boss. That's why blizzard changed it later and everyone got his own item after a boss kill, but older instances/raids (wotlk as example) don't have a such system. You should ask, if it's the wrong system rather than a wrong behaviour.
I can remember, in well of eternity, how many tries I needed to get foul gift of the demonlord. The chance was quite low and 2/3 of random hc runs were other instances. And I often had ninjas in grp, but I accepted it. A ret pala rolled finally on a strength trinket, that he won 2 weeks ago without equipping it. This is the definition of ninjaing. He rolled on the int-trinket (my possible trinket) ret-specc as well, this is ninjaing. And his off-specc was prot-pala. This is ninjaing. Btw I didn't win the item.
My other point about performance in a grp is also a subjective and difficult question. I don't mean, that only the 5 best dps have the permission on an item. You should see, that we speak about rdf and 5er grps, not about raids with other loot rules. I also peak about people's performance as a function of their possibility.
A green geared war tank strains in the grp, while an afk blue/lilac geared arms war is afk half of the time. His performance in function of his gear is rly low. Now a shoulder item drops, lilac with strength, hit and crit-stats. Your opinion is, that the green geared tank must decline on the item, because crit isn't his best second stat. The afk arms war has the permission to get the item despite he could spare the shoulder (he has a similar one) The green war rolls on the item and get a ban.
What I want to tell you is, that retail wasn't perfect and there were ninjas, but to punish people for subjective opinions is worser. You could also ban me, because you aren't agreed with me, or I'm not agreed with you, but is our own opinion wrong?
We live in a hard world where almost everyone is selfish. That's life and widely spread. It's nice that you wanna make it better for others (kindness), but you can't expect, that you earn the same kind behaviour as well, especially in the internet. I also try to be kind and give new players 1k gold on the mop server, but do you think, I got 1k gold from someone? I can remember, when I started fresh on Frostwolf and didn't know the amount of bugs there...I asked people and didn't get answers from 90% of the players. But that's life and I don't doom them. Its a honor to be kind, yes ofc, but it's also subjective and makes you more working. More farming, more writing, more helping...all are a question of time...How kind are you, Mercy?
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Moderator
No amount of text-walling can work as substitute for principles.
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Field Medic Moderator
Not subjective at all. Hit rating is not a healer stat. Therefore, healers are last priority on hit rating items. Period. No If's, And's or But's.
If this happened on retail back in the WotLK era, you could report the player and a GM would remove the item from the player's inventory. I personally saw it happen more than once.
Quite. Helping others and chilling with my friends is the only reason I didn't quit playing this game a decade ago.
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