1. Death Striking - A Blood Death Knight Tanking Guide

    Death Striking: A Blood Death Knight Tanking Guide

    About me

    I'm Kelenis and I've been playing blood tank on Warmane (Ragnaros -> Icecrown Realm) since 2015 following the loss of my prot paladin during the "Moltdown"

    INDEX:
    1. Stats
    2. Talents
    3. Rotation
    4. Gems/Enchants
    5. Trinkets
    6. BiS List
    7. Macros and Addons
    8. Tips and Tricks
    9. Closing Words


    STATS


    DEFENSE:
    How defense works is it both scales your Dodge and Parry by .04% per point while reducing the chance you will be hit with a critical strike (2x damage).
    The cap for being immune to level 82 boss crits (mostly heroic dungeons) is 535
    The cap for being immune to level 83 boss crits (raids+) is 540
    For every 4.918 Defense Rating you have, you get 1 Defense (skill)
    The reasoning is as follows:
    Spoiler: Show

    The same level npc has a 5% chance to crit you with your base defense of 400 (5 per level). For every level they have up on you they get an additional 0.2%. That means a level 82 boss has a 5.4% chance while a level 83 boss has a 5.6% chance.
    Every defense skill (not rating) reduces this chance by 0.4%.
    5.6% / .04% = 140
    5.4% / .04% = 135
    So 140 or 135 added to your base of 400 will make you crit immune.


    RESILIENCE:
    “Resilience will fix it”
    Blizzard also implemented another stat that reduces your chance to be critted.
    Every point of Resilience will give you a 0.01% chance to be critted. This means if someone tried to tank in resilience gear (not recommended) they would need 560 Resilience to become crit immune to a level 83 boss or 540 for level 82.
    Yes this works in 3.3.5a, yes this works on warmane. I've tested it multiple times.

    Where this stat comes into play however is when gearing, this makes PVP viable to get to cap.
    Resilience = ¼ Defense
    HOWEVER:
    Resilience = 1.25 Defense Rating!

    To calculate your crit immune cap, use this:
    D = Defense (Skill)
    R = Resilience (Not Rating!)
    (.04 * [D-400]) + (.01 * R) = (Should be over 5.4 for Dungeon Bosses or over 5.6 for Raid Bosses)

    FAQ:
    Q: Are you telling me it me if I need to gem to reach my cap, Resilience is more effective?
    A: Yes! http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40126 will provide you with a ~0.1627% crit chance reduction (20 def rating) while http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40127 will provide .02% crit reduction (20 resil).

    Q: Why don’t all Tanks use Resilience/PVP gear in end game?
    A: PVP gear provides your crit immunity along with strength and stamina, yet it doesn’t give Dodge, Parry, Expertise, Hit, or many other stats that are very Beneficial to tanks.

    Q: If PVP gear is viable, is Medallion of the Horde/Alliance viable for tanks? Starting trinkets are hard to get as a tank.
    A: The problem with trinkets like Medallion is they cost a lot to get, while that time could be spent farming ToC 5 or PoS HC for much better Trinkets.

    STAMINA:
    Stamina increases the amount of health you have.
    Stamina is essential for all tanks, the bigger our health buffer the larger hits we can take.

    ARMOR:
    Armor is important as it reduces the physical damage you take.
    Damage reduction from armor is capped at 75%, keeping that in mind you can use the following equation to formulate
    Spoiler: Show


    Armor = (467.5 * Enemy Level - 22167.5 ) / ( 100 / %Reduction - 1)
    %Reduction = 100 / ( (467.5 * Enemy Level - 22167.5) / Armor + 1 )

    Where %Reduction and Armor are your Variables (Enemy Level should almost always be 83)

    DODGE/PARRY:
    Dodge and Parry aren’t as important to have as Stamina or Armor, but it’s certainly nice to avoid an attack entirely every once in a while.

    HIT:
    Hit as a tank isn’t a primary stat while gearing, but you should be at cap before attempting any major raids.
    8% is our cap for Melee attacks while we need to reach 9% with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=43538 for our taunts to never miss. 8% is generally ok since with with a shadow priest and/or boomkin you get an extra 3% chance to hit against their target and you can even raid under hit cap with one, as long as your taunts don’t miss.
    Reasoning:
    Spoiler: Show

    For level 83 bosses the formula is:
    2% + (Mob Level - Your Level) * 2%
    2% + 3*2% = 8%
    For your level 82 (or lower) bosses however:
    5% + (Mob Level - Your Level) * 0.5%
    5% + 2*.5% = 6%
    If you have 0 hit, you have a 100% chance of hitting a level 70 boss (:
    5% + (-10)*.5% = 0%

    17% is the cap for spells, 9% + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=43538’s 8% allows us to reach this for our taunt.


    EXPERTISE:
    Expertise is an opinionated subject, at BiS you should be capped but should you actively pursue it? Probably not.
    For every point of Expertise, the chance your attacks are dodged/parried is reduced by 0.25%.
    The soft cap for dodge is 26 expertise and the hard cap is 56. Being Expertise capped means your melee attacks won’t miss, but expertise isn’t really on a lot of gear.
    Explanation:
    Bosses have a 5% chance to dodge you, plus .5% for every level they have on you. That means a level 83 boss will have a 6.5% chance to dodge and since every point of Expertise reduces their chances of dodging them by 0.25%, so 6.5/.25=26 Expertise.
    Bosses also have a 14% chance to Parry, which means you’d need 56 Expertise (14/.25). This number is difficult to reach, so most tanks don’t bother even with Parry-Hasting.

    Parry-Hasting:
    Spoiler: Show

    Two end game bosses have Parry-Hasting on Warmane: Sindragosa and Halion. For these fights in order to prevent this mechanic you can A: Get lucky, or B: Get Expertise hard capped (56).
    Parry Hasting will increase the attack speed of the boss shortly after parrying one of your attacks.


    Talents

    If you want to keep it simple, use these:
    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0EMqIhIobobsZhxbxVMGz
    This is the ideal single target threat/raid utility spec I'd recommend. Alternately you can trade Improved Icy Talons with DeathChill or Glacial Rot if you know you'll always be raiding with a Frost DK.


    Along with these glyphs:
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=43538
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=43554
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45805
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=43535
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=43544

    Rotation

    Your rotation will be strictly situational
    Opening:
    (Always Spam http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=56815) + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49921 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49924 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49930 (x2)
    My DoTs need to be refreshed, but I could use some extra healing and my threat is good:
    (Always Spam http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=56815) + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=50842 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49924 (x2) -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49930
    I’m having a hard time holding aggro:
    (Always Spam http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=56815) + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 (x2)[if you have death runes up, use 4 http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 and skip http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49921 ]-> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49921 (x2) -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49930 (x2)
    There’s a certain BiS warrior in my group who popped at the start of a boss fight:
    (Always Spam http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=56815) + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 (x2)[4 if you have Death Runes] -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=45529 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=47568 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 (x3)
    OUCHIE! MY HEALTH IS LOW!
    (If you already have both Diseases on your target):
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48982 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49924 (x2) -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=47568 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49924 (x2)
    (If you don’t)
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48982 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49921 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49924 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=47568 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49924 (x2)
    AoE:
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49938 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49921 -> http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=50842 -> (Tab + http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 as much as you can) ->Hope and Pray

    Defensives:
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48792 – 30% Reduced damage (+ extra for defense rating) for 12 seconds. This is your best CD.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48707 – Shields you from debuffs and absorbs 75% magic damage for 5 seconds (up to a max of 50% of your health).
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=55233 – Increases your health temporarily and increases the healing you recieve.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48982 – heals you for 11% (21% with glyph) of your max health (and 10% for everyone in your party with glyph).
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=45529 (With 4 set T10) – 12% damage reduction for 10 sec.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=61606 – Places a debuff with 20 stacks on your target, every time they deal damage to a target it heals the target for 4% of their max health and consumes a stack. Lasts 20 seconds.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=42650 - Take less damage while channeling, increases with your dodge and parry chance.

    Self-Healing:
    Now here’s the fun part.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48982 – Heals you for 10% or 20% if you have the talents. (up to an extra 2% with glyph as well).
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49924 – Heals you for 5% per disease, a max of 10% when you have both diseases on your target.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48743 - Sacrifice a Ghoul from either army or raise dead/ally for 40% of your health.


    Gems and Enchants

    Gems:
    Meta: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=41380
    Red (x1 for meta): http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40118**
    Everything Else: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40119

    *For lower gear, simply gem for whatever makes sense. Gemming for socket bonus is worthwhile if that bonus is stamina or defense (if you’re under cap)
    **If you have http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730, you can gem dodge or parry as long as you’re over soft expertise cap.

    Enchants:
    Weapon: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=62158
    Wrists: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=62256
    Chest: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=47900
    Cloak: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=47672
    Shoulders: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=44957
    Head: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=44137 (or http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=67839 if you’re an Engineer [Note: it doesn't show the +45 stam but it is there])
    Gloves: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=44625 (or http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=63770 if you’re an Engineer)
    Pants: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=38373
    Boots: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=47901 (or http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=55016 if you’re an Engineer [Don't underestimate the power of Nitro Boosts. These can save your raid])


    Trinkets

    BiS Trinkets: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47451 (http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47080 for alliance)
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50361


    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=54591: Armor and an effect that increases your dodge rating after falling below 35%. [Decent Trinket because of Armor, but much better on warr/pala]
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50349: Dodge and an effect that increases your armor after you dip below 35%. [Bad Trinket]
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50364: Stamina and a Magic Resistance effect.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50344: Stamina and an Armor effect. [Decent trinket, however the Stamina effect will fall off on many bosses due to their low melee attack speed]
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50356: Stamina and an absorb effect. [Use until you get Jugs/Fang]
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47451/http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47088: Stamina and a health bump you can activate
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47735: Armor and dodge rating
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=48021: Dodge Rating and an armor stacking effect
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50235: Dodge Rating and a health bump you can activate.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47216: Stamina and a pretty good chance Armor effect. Fantastic Starting Trinket.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=37220: Stamina and a decent equip effect. Awesome Starting Trinket.

    Starting Trinkets I'd recommend:
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47216
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=37220 (OR http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=48021 < http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=48021 < http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50235)
    You should always have AT LEAST 1 stamina trinket.


    What trinkets you should use depends on your gear. If you're low on armor, it makes more sense to run an armor trinket and a stamina trinket but if you have ~70% armor it's almost pointless to run an armor trinket for most fights.
    Also keep in mind the fight. If you have Key, Fang, and Juggs you should be using Juggs and Fang for most of ICC but on a fight like Gunship where there's going to be no magic damage done to you, swap out Fang for Key and get the extra effect. Make it a habit to think about the fight and change your trinket before you pull.


    BiS List

    So here’s your BiS armor list:
    Spoiler: Show

    1. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730
    2. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50640
    3. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50627
    4. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51309
    5. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50718
    6. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51305
    7. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50611
    8. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51307
    9. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50691
    10. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51131
    11. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=54579
    12. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50622
    13. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50404
    14. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50462

    Alternative Builds:
    Spoiler: Show

    1. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50603
    2. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51306
    3. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50682
    4. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51309
    5. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50466
    6. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51305
    7. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51901
    8. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51307
    9. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50991
    10. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49904
    11. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50625
    12. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=48027
    13. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50622
    14. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50462
    15. Spoiler: Show
      With Cryptmaker, you would use t10 + Pillars of Might, Bile-Encrusted Medallion, Sentinel's Winter Cloak, Gargoyle Spit Bracers, Verdigris Chain Belt, Grinning Skull boots, Band of the Twin Val'kyr and Devium's Eternally Cold Ring. Your hit comes from gloves + Cryptmaker + Virulence. Your expertise comes from Grinning Skull Boots + Veteran of the Third War + 3 exp/stam gems in helm, chest and belt with +9 stam bonus and food buff, which puts you at 21 expertise. You can get to 25 by putting exp/stam gems in the remaining +6 stamina bonus red sockets but ultimately expertise isn't anywhere near as important as hit.

      You'll lose 35 stamina for using Grinning Skull Boots instead of Impending Resurrection, 10 stamina for using Twin Valkyr ring instead of Ashen Band, 13 stamina for using Cryptmaker over Glorenzelg, 14 stamina for using Pillars of Might over T10 legs, 18 stamina for matching the +9 stamina red sockets and 27 stamina if you match the +6 red sockets. Totaling 102 stamina at 21 expertise and 132 at 25 expertise, after 13% stamina increase. In exchange you gain around 1550 extra armor, which is around 1600 more EH than 102 stamina and 500 more EH than 132 stamina.

    1. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623
    2. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51306
    3. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50627
    4. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51309
    5. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50718
    6. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50681
    7. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50611
    8. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51307
    9. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50691
    10. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51131
    11. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50625 (Orcs with can use 1 http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40118 in http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50691 alternatively paired with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=54579 for a few extra stats)
    12. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50622
    13. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50404
    14. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50462

    1. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50709
    2. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51306
    3. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50627
    4. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51309
    5. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50718
    6. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50681
    7. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50611
    8. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51307
    9. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50691
    10. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51131
    11. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50625 (Orcs with can use 1 http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40118 in http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50691 alternatively paired with http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=54579 for a few extra stats)
    12. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50622
    13. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50404
    14. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50462


    As for trinkets, you can read above that you should have these 2 ready:
    1. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50361
    2. http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47451 or http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47088




    Macros/Addons


    Macros:
    Hysteria (Places it on your focus):
    #showtooltip Hysteria
    /cast [target=focus] Hysteria

    You can also macro Rune Strike to all your abilities to ensure you're always using it.
    #showtooltip <ability>(rank x)
    /cast <ability>(rank x)
    /cast Rune Strike

    Addons:
    1. DBM
    2. Gearscore
    3. Omen
    4. WhoTaunted

    Tips and Tricks


    Anti-Magic shell is your best friend. It’s by far the most underrated defensive.
    1. On Sindragosa you can use it to counter every other Frost Breath (as she’s casting it)[Take first, AMS second -> Flight Phase (drops off) -> AMS first, take second, AMS third]
    2. You can AMS Rune of Blood on DBS to reduce your tank juggling
    3. On BPC if you’re tanking Keleseth it can help absorb shadow lance if you drop an orb or two
    4. Tank a little bit of Cutter in Ruby Sanctum
    5. and any other spell damaging abilities.


    Your mind freeze can be extremely useful when tanking bosses like Lady Death Whisperer or even Jaraxxus in ToC to interrupt their casting (frostbolt and fel firebolt)


    Mark of Blood will help on Death Bringer Saurfang when your offtank is taking too much damage, you can also use chains of ice to slow any blood beasts that don’t get caught in a frost trap.

    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 makes tanking Keleseth easy since an http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49909 is more than enough to hold aggro of the orbs. (As of 3/15/18, Orbs on BPC have unlimited range meaning you can get the debuff from an orb across the room and allowing the DPS to use their AoE abilities.)

    On Blood Queen Lana’thel, http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48792 reduces the damage you take as a main tank and will in turn reduce the damage your off tank takes. Same goes for http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=45529 when you have 4 Set Tier 10.

    On Valithria Dreamwalker, http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=49576 will interrupt Blazing Skeleton’s http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=69326.

    On Sindragosa, http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48707 will negate Sindragosa’s http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=69649. She uses it twice per every cooldown of http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=48707 so it’s best to use on the first breath in the fight, the last breath before every air phase, and as often as possible in P2.
    Edited: March 30, 2020 Reason: Fixed some incorrect information + talent builds

  2. Resilience doesnt reduce your chance to get crittically struck in 3.3.5a

    Juggernaut/Satrina is vastly superior to corroded skeleton key, or any other trinket that you mentioned for most encounters.

    Defense/dodge enchant on shoulders is a huge waste when you can get 30 stamina from pvp vendor.

    On sindragosa its the 40k meele hits that will kill you, not the frost dmg, if you go for frost resist set you'll die form 2 meele hits. And you will get hit twice fast - even if she doesnt parry you, she will parry someone else or their pet.

    Shadowmourne for tanking is a waste of item - threat is generated with proper management of your spells not meele hits, and even those will give you more overall threat with gloren due to less parry/dodge on your attacks.

    You forgot to mention cryptmaker which is best weapon for EHP since it allows you to use pillars of might without dipping under hit cap.

    Hit as a tank isnt important, especially when you wipe because your taunt missed.

    Im done with reading, hard to find a single paragraph that is right.
    Edited: March 15, 2018

  3. My god, them talents...

    I mean, good work on editing of the guide and taking the time to make it, but my god, them talents...

  4. Resilience doesnt reduce your chance to get crittically struck in 3.3.5a

    Juggernaut/Satrina is vastly superior to corroded skeleton key, or any other trinket that you mentioned for most encounters.

    Defense/dodge enchant on shoulders is a huge waste when you can get 30 stamina from pvp vendor.

    On sindragosa its the 40k meele hits that will kill you, not the frost dmg, if you go for frost resist set you'll die form 2 meele hits. And you will get hit twice fast - even if she doesnt parry you, she will parry someone else or their pet.

    Shadowmourne for tanking is a waste of item - threat is generated with proper management of your spells not meele hits, and even those will give you more overall threat with gloren due to less parry/dodge on your attacks.

    You forgot to mention cryptmaker which is best weapon for EHP since it allows you to use pillars of might without dipping under hit cap.

    Hit as a tank isnt important, especially when you wipe because your taunt missed.

    Im done with reading, hard to find a single paragraph that is right.
    For Resilience here's a link to a page from wowpedia during the patch 3.3.3 https://wow.gamepedia.com/index.php?...&oldid=2241746 where it does say exactly this, I can follow up with testing but resilience SHOULD provide reduced crit chance.

    I find key more beneficial because it's base stamina is higher, it's cooldown is lower, and in fights that will require a trinket pop like this, it's typically one thing that needs to be prevented and the larger buffer (although it can't be healed back up like jugs/satrina) is more beneficial in a squeeze in my opinion.

    Good catch, completely forgot about that. I'll go change that enchant.

    Threat = 2.0735( Damage + 0.5 Healing ) With the exception of the 7x multiplier of icy touch and 1.75x multiplier of rune strike, threat is completely generated by damage. Yes proper management of abilities is the biggest part of maintaining aggro, but Plague Strike, Heart Strike, Rune Strike, and Death strike all directly benefit from weapon damage increasing threat. I'll have to look into the expertise argument, but when in ICC you should already be soft capped and not have to worry about dodge.

    Thanks, that's another thing I overlooked. I'll go back and add that.

    kind of a lame attempt of a joke on my part, that's more towards gearing players since they shouldn't make it their main focus initially. I'll go back and change that as well.

    Edit: the purpose of the frost resistance gear is to negate http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=70127 I don't recommend solo tanking sindra on heroic versions of ICC because of the high melee hits. She also shouldn't be able to parry from the side, only frontal attacks.
    Edited: March 15, 2018

  5. Resilience doesnt reduce your chance to get crittically struck in 3.3.5a
    You're likely confusing the crit chance reduction with the removal of the damage and crit damage reduction component against NPC targets. The crit chance reduction still applies, and should. I'd happily stand corrected if you provide any sort of reliable source of information that states otherwise, because all of the research I did on the topic yields no such fruit.

    Juggernaut/Satrina is vastly superior to corroded skeleton key, or any other trinket that you mentioned for most encounters.
    And significantly more difficult to obtain.

    Defense/dodge enchant on shoulders is a huge waste when you can get 30 stamina from pvp vendor.
    The defense and dodge enchant would actually be a pretty decent option for tanks outside of ICC if resilience worked the way you claimed it does.

    On sindragosa its the 40k meele hits that will kill you, not the frost dmg, if you go for frost resist set you'll die form 2 meele hits. And you will get hit twice fast - even if she doesnt parry you, she will parry someone else or their pet.
    If she is getting parried by someone else or a pet, that's not an issue with the DK. That's an issue with people in the raid that needs to be corrected. This argument would be better applied to Lich King, because Sindragosa spends the vast majority of the encounter stationary.

    Shadowmourne for tanking is a waste of item - threat is generated with proper management of your spells not meele hits, and even those will give you more overall threat with gloren due to less parry/dodge on your attacks.
    One should point out that Shadowmourne has the same primary stat budget as Glorenzelg (strength and stamina), but the numbers are reversed. Glorenzelg has less strength, but a fair chunk more stamina. That is the main attraction for the weapon, not so much the expertise.

    You forgot to mention cryptmaker which is best weapon for EHP since it allows you to use pillars of might without dipping under hit cap.

    Hit as a tank isnt important, especially when you wipe because your taunt missed.
    I'm confused. Is hit important or not? You claim one should aim for Cryptmaker because of the hit rating on the weapon, but then you go on to talk about how hit rating isn't important. It's interesting, because the issue with hit rating can easily be solved with gems, but then you say hit isn't important, so I wouldn't even bother with that, right?

  6. Hey Gnimo,
    My talents are more focused on lifesteal and survivability primarily and aggro secondary in the blood tree instead of going into the frost tree like you do. I like your guide but there are some things I disagree with you on. Personally the blood worms I find useful in many situations such as gunship, vdw, and lich king to give a bit of a healing boost in combination with improved blood presence. While you aim towards better mitigation and more damage from your icy touch, I aim primarily towards life stealing and independence from the healers when possible.

  7. my 1v1 with Ick
    (.04 * [D-400]) + (.01 * R) >= 5.4
    D=503
    R=452
    .04*103+.01*452 = 8.64
    Under Def Cap but past crit immune with resilience


    Edit: Under crit immune with Defense and under crit immune with resilience but capped with them added up, and no crits were hit against me in a 6 minute encounter.
    Edited: March 16, 2018

  8. Is Bryntoll decent for this type of tanking considering it is centered on independent life stealing, if Gloren is unavailable?

  9. Is Bryntoll decent for this type of tanking considering it is centered on independent life stealing, if Gloren is unavailable?
    Absolutely, the passive life steal is amazing with this spec. I'd recommend using it until you can get Gloren.

  10. https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...xcMbZ0x:hip0MV

    There is no need to go deeper into blood tree.
    U can even skip HS, in the spec i linked, and get 1% extra miss chance in frost, if u are confident in ur aggro and want more survability.
    If u want to go for Worms, for healing, u should go for DW weapons, double Milthrios. It will spawn **** ton of them constantly...
    Otherwise, u wont gain almost any healing from that talent, especialy without Icy Talons, both talent and aura from another DK, mainly cos the ones that u even get will most likely die to AoE dmg.
    As for Improved Blood Presence, ur DMG as a DK tank is low, so those couple of % of extra healing are also kinda, meh, and wont save u at any point.

    Any extra healing u get from both Worms and Imp Presence are basicly a waste of talents from my pov. U will eather die from a big hit or u wont, especialy as BiS.
    On the other side, u can never have enough of aggro...

    When it comes to weapons, both Cryptmaker and Glorenzelg are HUGE chunks of hit and expertise rating. 2 stats that are higly important for DKs mainly cos ur healing comes from successfull hits. So i guess Vael was simply sarcastic when he said hit is not important when u miss a taunt...
    The ONE AND ONLY race that could use Bryntroll or SM is Orc cos of axe expertice racial. On other races u dont want Bryntroll in case u have Crypt or Gloren, mainly cos the proc is pure RNG and it could proc only when u are on 100% hp. On top of it all, the more hit and expertise u have in a weapon slot, the less u need in gear so u can build some extra avoidance there.

    As for trinkets, regardless of how hard getting ToC trinket is, its simply the best one out there. It works perfectly with Vampiric Blood (making the two used together a hell of a survival kit) and the way ur healing works, since it increases ur max HP.
    So, no matter how hard it is to get it, IT IS best trinket for a BDK tank.
    If u dont have it sure, Key is a great replacement, but saying key is better is wrong.

    As for Frost Resi, atm on curent state of how Sindra works and hits, magic dmg is not something u want to worry, especialy with Spell Deflection and AMS 45sec CD on top of 5 other def cds u have and an offtank...

    As for resilience, yes it should reduce crit chance but, i dont know how it interacts with def rating. If both are stacking and are adding up, than at low gear and gearing point of ur wotlk expirience, u could use Wrathful wrist for example for tanking and be happy about it.
    When BiS, the only resilience u want is from that Shoulder enchant, altho, i personalt prefer the 20dodge15def when talking about BiS.

    As for people that are gearing up, they wont have any use from min maxing when it comes to healing.
    However, they need A LOT of aggro talents mainly cos they will most likely get in a VoA grp with a BiS dps and let him die cos they didnt generate a lot of aggro...
    The main reason that is happening are people promoting that u dont need to use IT more than once at start and im glad u are not one of them.

    Great job on that one... :D

    Thats why i feel that this spec:
    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...xVM0zZz:hip0MV
    (with couple of minor posible changes)
    Is the best spec a new BDK, that is gearing up, can use for raids when it comes to tanking bosses...

    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...x0MZ0xb:oip0MV
    This one is also good, if u are using off spec (not for Dungeon hero tanking Soec) for something else, and u need extra Threat from DnD for a lot of situations...
    Edited: March 16, 2018

  11. https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...xcMbZ0x:hip0MV

    There is no need to go deeper into blood tree.
    U can even skip HS, in the spec i linked, and get 1% extra miss chance in frost, if u are confident in ur aggro and want more survability.
    If u want to go for Worms, for healing, u should go for DW weapons, double Milthrios. It will spawn **** ton of them constantly...
    Otherwise, u wont gain almost any healing from that talent, especialy without Icy Talons, both talent and aura from another DK, mainly cos the ones that u even get will most likely die to AoE dmg.
    As for Improved Blood Presence, ur DMG as a DK tank is low, so those couple of % of extra healing are also kinda, meh, and wont save u at any point.

    Any extra healing u get from both Worms and Imp Presence are basicly a waste of talents from my pov. U will eather die from a big hit or u wont, especialy as BiS.
    On the other side, u can never have enough of aggro...
    Blood worms actually do a surprising amount of healing, given they do die easily for any AoE fights. I tested the healing caused by Death Strike, Blood Worms, and Blood Presence in standard rotation and I found that Death Strike obviously did the most but only 81.4% of my healing while Blood Worms did 12.9% and Blood Presence did 5.6%. That being said I do think I agree with you now that Blood Presence isn't worth focusing but for the majority of fights, Blood Worms should be viable.
    Your argument of putting more into icy touch makes more sense as well with glyph of Disease since instead of using Icy Touch twice, you can simply crit once for 2x damage and effectively 2x threat, leaving room for another death strike.
    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#jcx...fkrsoZhxxxmZ0x
    Seems to make the most sense in this case, also increasing melee haste for more blood worms.
    while
    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#jcx...sZhxxxV:hip0MV
    may make more sense to someone struggling with threat at the expense of dodge in the Unholy Tree.

    When it comes to weapons, both Cryptmaker and Glorenzelg are HUGE chunks of hit and expertise rating. 2 stats that are higly important for DKs mainly cos ur healing comes from successfull hits. So i guess Vael was simply sarcastic when he said hit is not important when u miss a taunt...
    The ONE AND ONLY race that could use Bryntroll or SM is Orc cos of axe expertice racial. On other races u dont want Bryntroll in case u have Crypt or Gloren, mainly cos the proc is pure RNG and it could proc only when u are on 100% hp. On top of it all, the more hit and expertise u have in a weapon slot, the less u need in gear so u can build some extra avoidance there.
    In defense of Vael, I had originally wrote that hit was just a stat we kind of "ended up with" and it wasn't important to stack early on. His/her comment was a sarcastic remark of that saying "yea well, hit isn't important. It'll only wipe your raid". That was poor wording on my part and I apologize.

    In defense of Bryntroll, it's an excellent weapon early on. It drops from Marrowgarr making it easily obtainable and although the passive life steal is RNG, it's nice to get it when it procs at a good time.
    Also, for Orcs all they would gain from Shadowmourne at BiS is 26 Stamina (+1 Expertise Gem and Halion Boots instead of VDW).
    I still stand by what I said that Shadowmourne is a viable option when BiS mainly for it's strength buff and ability but also for it's overall damage increase. The stat difference between BiS gear when using Shadowmourne and Gloren (not including the weapons) are 35 Stamina, 47 armor and 68 parry rating vs 14 dodge rating and 22 defense. While obviously Gloren has +22 stamina and additional expertise vs 25 strength(up to +270 additional with it's ability), some arp, and higher damage. The parry rating from shadowmourne's stacks+proc itself is almost double that you'd get with the Halion boots meaning you're comparing Expertise and a small amount of armor and stamina against a small bit of dodge and a little additional dodge and parry derived from defense.
    Obviously you can say Glorenz is slightly better but I still prefer shadowmourne personally.

    As for trinkets, regardless of how hard getting ToC trinket is, its simply the best one out there. It works perfectly with Vampiric Blood (making the two used together a hell of a survival kit) and the way ur healing works, since it increases ur max HP.
    So, no matter how hard it is to get it, IT IS best trinket for a BDK tank.
    If u dont have it sure, Key is a great replacement, but saying key is better is wrong.
    The more I look into this, the more sense it makes. The additional damage absorption doesn't mean as much when it's only usable for one hit, while with the pop on Jugs/Sat is healed back and can be utilized for a much longer amount of time. Key really only makes more sense when you need to anticipate a single big hit, but that almost never seems to happen.

    As for Frost Resi, atm on curent state of how Sindra works and hits, magic dmg is not something u want to worry, especialy with Spell Deflection and AMS 45sec CD on top of 5 other def cds u have and an offtank...
    This section was more of a reference for 10 man heroic encounters, where it may make more sense to have 3 healers or 7 DPS for Sindragosa in Phase 2 to negate the need of a tank swap. Once those stacks get up there she isn't very forgiving.
    I don't recommend this for 25 man heroics at all.

    As for resilience, yes it should reduce crit chance but, i dont know how it interacts with def rating. If both are stacking and are adding up, than at low gear and gearing point of ur wotlk expirience, u could use Wrathful wrist for example for tanking and be happy about it.
    When BiS, the only resilience u want is from that Shoulder enchant, altho, i personalt prefer the 20dodge15def when talking about BiS.
    Absolutely, Resilience does properly interact with defense rating making it viable for gearing which is what that section was intended for. I guess the shoulder enchants are debatable, but the 30 stamina makes more sense to me at BiS considering dodge and parry have DR.

    As for people that are gearing up, they wont have any use from min maxing when it comes to healing.
    However, they need A LOT of aggro talents mainly cos they will most likely get in a VoA grp with a BiS dps and let him die cos they didnt generate a lot of aggro...
    The main reason that is happening are people promoting that u dont need to use IT more than once at start and im glad u are not one of them.

    Great job on that one... :D

    Thats why i feel that this spec:
    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...xVM0zZz:hip0MV
    (with couple of minor posible changes)
    Is the best spec a new BDK, that is gearing up, can use for raids when it comes to tanking bosses...

    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...x0MZ0xb:oip0MV
    This one is also good, if u are using off spec (not for Dungeon hero tanking Soec) for something else, and u need extra Threat from DnD for a lot of situations...
    Thank you for putting the time into arguing your points (:
    I want this guide to be kind of a live document, changing it as new/better information surfaces.
    Edited: March 17, 2018

  12. I was wrong on the resilience - it does in fact reduce chance to get critically struck in pve, making it able to def cap you. I was confident it was changed to not work like that in one of the patches during wotlk but after going through them theres no such thing, meaning its working as intended.

    The thing I mentioned about Cryptmaker ealier assumes you are using marrowgar 25 legs, whilst you went for set legs.

    You can still use armor neck with t10 chest if you get your hit from legs - which will make you lose expertise OR you can go with LDW 25 head which also gives hit rating OR you can go with BPC 10hc shoulders which are also great altough lose a bit to the legs and head.
    Edited: March 16, 2018

  13. The thing I mentioned about Cryptmaker ealier assumes you are using marrowgar 25 legs, whilst you went for set legs.

    You can still use armor neck with t10 chest if you get your hit from legs - which will make you lose expertise OR you can go with LDW 25 head which also gives hit rating OR you can go with BPC 10hc shoulders which are also great altough lose a bit to the legs and head.
    I'm a bit confused by your response here, I'm able to achieve hit and expertise cap while using http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50682 and http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50603 but not while using http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49904.
    I went with Tier legs for the http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730 BiS list because it allows you to use http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=54579 instead of using http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50625. The other alternatives you provide also either sacrifice hit, expertise, or even general stats and I wouldn't recommend that. I'll add an inclusion for http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50603 and http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50709 since they are both significantly easier to obtain than http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730 or http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623

    Thank you, I do appreciate the feedback and suggestions are always appreciated (:
    Edited: March 17, 2018 Reason: Fixed Links

  14. You can't really stipulate a minimum hit rating amount across the board. That's something that varies greatly depending on the fight. On a number of them, taunt-swapping isn't involved at all. On a good number of other fights, the only instances of taunt-swapping occur in situations when you're highly likely to have the 3% hit debuff up on the boss (with this debuff and the taunt glyph you only need ~157 hit rating for your taunt not to miss, which is an amount you often incidentally end up with anyway).

    There's also the fact that as a DK you can taunt with Death Grip in the event that Dark Command misses. Other tanks sometimes opt to go for the 236 Hit Rating Cap since that guarantees a taunt on a target without the 3% hit debuff on it, but DKs tend to enjoy the most breathing space here because in situations like those, Icy Touch often works more than adequately as a "taunt". In general it tends to be very feasible to drop Hit Rating in favour of survivability stats as a DK tank, so long as you don't dip below an unreasonably low threshold.

  15. Being Expertise capped means your icy touch won’t miss
    No, it doesn't. Icy Touch is a spell, it doesn't get dodged or parried. You need spell hit to make it not miss.

    If you want to keep it simple, use these:
    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#jcx...xxxmZ0x:hip0MV
    If you want to generate more threat at the expense of dodge:
    https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#jcx...sZhxxxV:hip0MV
    Jesus Christ, these specs are terrible. You didn't take Bladed Armor, a reliable source of threat for all of your damage and instead picked up RNG trash like Subversion, Sudden Doom and Might of Mograine, which are not just RNG but also just plain bad threat. No Death Rune Mastery means you have 0 flexibility with your runes and are forced into using Plague Strike after every Icy Touch instead of being able to 2x Icy Touch and 1x Death Strike or set up 4x IT for burst threat. Bloodworms and 1/2 imp. Blood Presence? Why? Just Why? Did you make this spec while having a seizure? You enjoy hard capping expertise for Sindragosa? Too bad, if she parries a worm you get hasted anyway. You enjoy AoE heals? Too bad, so do your worms.

    This is what the Blood part of your talents should look like. Or this. Or this. Literally any variation that avoids the garbage that is Bloodworms, Imp. Blood Pres, Sudden Doom, MoM, Subversion while still picking up the key tanking talents.

    Glyph of Vampiric Blood is pretty much mandatory, not optional. Glyph of Rune Tap is not only optional but also very weak.

    Tanks generally have 3 kinds of trinkets.
    Overall damage mitigation, Something you can pop, and a resistance trinket.
    Death Knight BiS items for each of these are as follows:
    Overall Damage Mitigation: Petrified Twilight Scale
    Something you can pop: Juggernaut's Vitality (Satrina's Impeding Scarab for alliance)
    Resistance Trinket: Sindragosa's Flawless Fang
    Twilight Scale is bad, stop using it. Its armor is beaten EH wise even by 228 stamina trinkets on DKs, because of 13% stamina multiplier, and that's all it has going for it, its effect is absolute garbage. Gearscore is not a tanking stat. If you're looking for BiS DK trinkets, you're looking for stamina + useful effect or in other words Sindragosa's, Satrina's/Juggernaut's or Skeleton Key.

    I know what some of you are thinking, why use http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50627 instead of http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50682 and http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50681 instead of http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51305 and use http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50660 for shoulders?

    Although using that for gear would be slightly better defensively (about 1% extra damage reduction), you would be about 3% under hit cap and at BiS you should have that maxed out. If you want to run with that gear, just know you WILL miss.
    You're sacrificing the EH of two pieces of gear just to get hit capped when you can easily do it with just 1 or even none if you use Cryptmaker. T10 gloves + Ashen Band + Cryptmaker/Lost Hope/Broken Ram + 1/3Virulence/Food buff/Draenei racial is all you need to get to 236 hit.

    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623 vs http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730
    Everyone has an opinion about which is better, but both are good for different scenarios.
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730 will give you an extra ~270 health (stamina)
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730 provides additional Expertise
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730 is much easier to obtain
    However,
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623 has more offensive stats including strength (and Parry derived from that strength)
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623 has an active that generates a good bit of threat in any fight (not to mention the additional Strength + Parry increase)
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623 has higher base weapon damage, meaning more threat
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623 is a badass axe

    Therefore, generally http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50730 gives the wielder better base stamina and expertise stats,
    while http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49623 is a better weapon when it comes to threat generation.
    If by "both are good in different scenarios" you mean that Gloren/Cryptmaker are actual tanking weapons that you use in relevant content while Shadowmourne is just used to mess around with in trivial content where your performance doesn't matter that much, yes. Otherwise no. Shadowmourne is a bad tanking weapon because it has 0 desirable secondary tanking stats. The primary purpose of your weapon as a tank isn't damage, it's optimization of the rest of your gear so you can get the most EH out of it while still reaching your secondary caps without making sacrifices like in your version of the BiS list.

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