1. human double trinket advantage pvp

    how do we go about calculating how much advantage is it?

    the medallion is 3% resi, while having another dps trinket for example is stats+very powerful proc for 15 seconds

    i want to have an idea of how much advantage it is

  2. i want to have an idea of how much advantage it is
    check 2v2 pvp ladder in icecrown and you will clearly see that nearly all of the teams in top 100 are alliance, andd nearly all players playing as human race.

  3. the difference between passive stats is 14 (167 arp / 153 resil) (dbw hc/medalion)
    then you have the 30s duration buff giving 700str/haste/crit, this is the thing that makes people go "ooooh human so op reee" except that the str buff is the only good variation of the proc.

  4. how do we go about calculating how much advantage is it?

    the medallion is 3% resi, while having another dps trinket for example is stats+very powerful proc for 15 seconds

    i want to have an idea of how much advantage it is
    in case of BDW its very powerful prock that is 30 sec and it have only 90cd ICD ,so you have this powerful prock 30% of the time.its huge advantage and no other racial come close to it.
    Edited: March 29, 2018

  5. The advantage is massive. As Dralanne already mentioned, just go check the PvP ladder on Icecrown and see for yourself, it's a sad sight. It's just flat out broken with this kind of accessibility to end game PvE gear which funnels a lot of compulsive minmaxers to Alliance and that is the primary cause for the terrible faction PvP balance on Icecrown. This one racial is solely responsible for the piss poor diversity in terms of PvP and in terms of the humans to other races ratio in general. If you think WotF was bad before its nerfs, imagine that but several times worse. That's not even an exaggeration, it's an observable fact that you can easily see for yourself by comparing the Outland ladder to the Icecrown one.

    the difference between passive stats is 14 (167 arp / 153 resil) (dbw hc/medalion)
    then you have the 30s duration buff giving 700str/haste/crit, this is the thing that makes people go "ooooh human so op reee" except that the str buff is the only good variation of the proc.
    Compare 700str/haste/crit for 30 secs on a 90 sec cd to the next best alternative for other races, which is 322 AP (the equivalent of 160 strength) for 15 secs on a 120 sec cd. Not only is every single variation of the proc offering you more than 4 times the stats but it also has double the duration and 25% less cd, or around 10 times more stats over the same period of time, even when you adjust the stat weights for crit/haste, it's still over 5 times better. Comparing procs with a single stat gives us a much clearer showcase of how stupidly broken this racial is. DFO proc is around 300 SP/sec, Blood Fury is 20 SP (15 times worse), Berserking is 36 haste (8 times worse). We're talking a racial that offers a cd that is 8-15 times better than anything any other race can offer and this is without even taking into account the flexibility it gives you with different trinkets and the increase in passive stats.

    It was beyond terribly balanced from the start as starting PvE trinkets already outperformed other racials by default but it only gets worse with each tier of gear as trinkets improve and by proxy so does Every Man For Himself while all the other racials stay the same, so on a server like Icecrown, that is gonna be stuck at its end game for the entirety of its lifespan, the human racial will stay in its most broken state forever as well, unless actual measures are taken to balance this in accordance with Icecrown's stagnant nature and readily available PvE gear, as opposed to retail, the quality of PvP on Icecrown will never improve.
    Edited: April 4, 2018

  6. The advantage is massive. As Dralanne already mentioned, just go check the PvP ladder on Icecrown and see for yourself, it's a sad sight. It's just flat out broken with this kind of accessibility to end game PvE gear which funnels a lot of compulsive minmaxers to Alliance and that is the primary cause for the terrible faction PvP balance on Icecrown. This one racial is solely responsible for the piss poor diversity in terms of PvP and in terms of the humans to other races ratio in general. If you think WotF was bad before its nerfs, imagine that but several times worse. That's not even an exaggeration, it's an observable fact that you can easily see for yourself by comparing the Outland ladder to the Icecrown one.



    Compare 700str/haste/crit for 30 secs on a 90 sec cd to the next best alternative for other races, which is 322 AP (the equivalent of 160 strength) for 15 secs on a 120 sec cd. Not only is every single variation of the proc offering you more than 4 times the stats but it also has double the duration and 25% less cd, or around 10 times more stats over the same period of time, even when you adjust the stat weights for crit/haste, it's still over 5 times better. Comparing procs with a single stat gives us a much clearer showcase of how stupidly broken this racial is. DFO proc is around 300 SP/sec, Blood Fury is 20 SP (15 times worse), Berserking is 36 haste (8 times worse). We're talking a racial that offers a cd that is 8-15 times better than anything any other race can offer and this is without even taking into account the flexibility it gives you with different trinkets and the increase in passive stats.

    It was beyond terribly balanced from the start as starting PvE trinkets already outperformed other racials by default but it only gets worse with each tier of gear as trinkets improve and by proxy so does Every Man For Himself while all the other racials stay the same, so on a server like Icecrown, that is gonna be stuck at its end game for the entirety of its lifespan, the human racial will stay in its most broken state forever as well, unless actual measures are taken to balance this in accordance with Icecrown's stagnant nature and readily available PvE gear, as opposed to retail, the quality of PvP on Icecrown will never improve.
    i agree the human racial was OP'ed in wrath but when you look at the history of pvp during wrath the human racial was not even close to being the biggest problem in pvp. but i totally see your point being endgame for ever/private server and all so the racial will never change but even then they are bigger issues in pvp then human racial.

  7. I seldomly comment on Wotlk things anymore since I am done with it, but a few parting words might be in order.

    TO HELL WITH EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF!

    In all my years of WoW I have never come across a more overpowered ability. If this was a spell for X class, it would be nerfed into the ground. Yet to make matters worse it is a racial, a racial among several other very potent ones in the same race. This is one of the major reasons for why I distaste Wotlk over Vanilla/TBC. Dear me, I will never long to return to Wotlk. I will stay on TBC forever where all racials are fairly equal with the only minor exception being WOTF in 2v2 arena.
    The worst part about EMFH is that it was given to the race which were selected for its looks despite other races having slightly better racials for PvP, but with Wotlk this was completely changed, hence you tend to always meet humans.

    I loved a lot of things about Wotlk and Icecrown, but I shall never miss this racial or the people who were so lowly as to select the race because of this racial. Disgraceful, is the only word I have for it.

  8. i agree the human racial was OP'ed in wrath but when you look at the history of pvp during wrath the human racial was not even close to being the biggest problem in pvp. but i totally see your point being endgame for ever/private server and all so the racial will never change but even then they are bigger issues in pvp then human racial.
    That's my point. Retail and Icecrown exist in two completely different times and environments and that should be accounted for. It was never this big of a problem on retail because this problem was new and didn't have the understanding behind it that it does today, retail also didn't have end game PvE gear this easily acquired and race change had a significant cost to it. Even so, there was a very clear trend of experienced PvPers race changing to human after realizing that the racial had a very significant impact on their performance and was times better than other alternatives.

    Icecrown currently exists 10 years after that and what used to be a trend is now the norm. Everyone and their mother knows how broken that racial is and they can easily acquire the PvE trinkets to make it so. The PvP ladder is in the trash and so is any semblance of faction balance. Top 100 teams in all brackets fluctuate between 80-90% Alliance, 95% of which are human, an inevitable result of a problem that had 10 years to fester, in an environment that exacerbates it further than anything ever before.

    Because it's not just an op piece of gear like Shadowmourne that both factions can acquire and is instead a racial exclusive to one race, which in turn is exclusive to one faction, It is the single, most unhealthy factor for a faction based PvP game like WoW and It's existence will ensure that Alliance will always get overrepresented in PvP unless something is done about it. Of course any sort of custom change wouldn't be blizzlike but then the terrible state of faction balance and human ratio on Icecrown isn't blizzlike either. As someone who has PvPed extensively over multiple expansions, I have never seen a disparity between factions get this bad and not be addressed in any way.

  9. That's my point. Retail and Icecrown exist in two completely different times and environments and that should be accounted for. It was never this big of a problem on retail because this problem was new and didn't have the understanding behind it that it does today, retail also didn't have end game PvE gear this easily acquired and race change had a significant cost to it. Even so, there was a very clear trend of experienced PvPers race changing to human after realizing that the racial had a very significant impact on their performance and was times better than other alternatives.

    Icecrown currently exists 10 years after that and what used to be a trend is now the norm. Everyone and their mother knows how broken that racial is and they can easily acquire the PvE trinkets to make it so. The PvP ladder is in the trash and so is any semblance of faction balance. Top 100 teams in all brackets fluctuate between 80-90% Alliance, 95% of which are human, an inevitable result of a problem that had 10 years to fester, in an environment that exacerbates it further than anything ever before.

    Because it's not just an op piece of gear like Shadowmourne that both factions can acquire and is instead a racial exclusive to one race, which in turn is exclusive to one faction, It is the single, most unhealthy factor for a faction based PvP game like WoW and It's existence will ensure that Alliance will always get overrepresented in PvP unless something is done about it. Of course any sort of custom change wouldn't be blizzlike but then the terrible state of faction balance and human ratio on Icecrown isn't blizzlike either. As someone who has PvPed extensively over multiple expansions, I have never seen a disparity between factions get this bad and not be addressed in any way.
    like i said i totally 100% agree with you the human racial was and is OP'ed, but when you look at wrath from day 1 to the day it ended on live that racial even op'ed as it was was a drop in the bucket of massive problems in wrath pvp. if they took the time to nerf the human racial here on warmane what comes next for the 1000's other bigger problems in wrath pvp? i played wrath and it was the last full x-pac i played from start to finish i know and seen the massive issues wrath had in pvp, wrath is where wow started to go down hill over all despite what many wrath babies want to think. yes i know balance was better at the end of wrath then it was at the start "as it always is" but even at end game like your talking about there are a ton of balance issues far worse then human racial that will never be changed.

    you brought up pve gear yourself that alone makes pvp unbalanced and just becasue people CAN BUY pve does not make it balanced. you can go right down the list talents for talents from class to class and you cna pick put tons of op'ed stuff that should get "fix/balanced" but never will. you can go watch a dk vs ret pally 1v1 each other for 15 mins or so, yeah i know 1v1 dont matter..... but having classes/spec in game that can do that crap hurts balance it does not help it. why not fix them issues "and others" before human racial?where does it end?

    see where i am going with this?see my point?and like i said i agree with you about the human racial but with the million of other problems wrath had/has with its pvp the human racial is just a drop in the bucket. blizz stopped giving out rewards for 2v2 in wrath correct?big chuck of that was becasue of dk's alone, does warmane give out titles for 2v2 in wrath?why not fix that?
    Edited: April 5, 2018

  10. The problem with EMFH is that it's faction specific, all other problems apply to both factions equally and do not create such a ridiculous disparity which is inherently harmful to the health of a faction based PvP game like WoW. This is not just a PvP balance problem, this is a PvP balance problem that also destroys faction and race representation. The fact that it's causing this many problems and is something that's supposed to be as insignificant as a racial makes it a far better candidate for custom tweaking than anything else I can think of on Icecrown.
    Edited: April 5, 2018

  11. In defense of EMFH, I have to say that is the only current competitive pvp racial for the alliance. My main is Draenei, and the racial is useless in Icecrown, in special agaisnt classes with 50% healing reduction (And against every class in MOP). I think it was a little better in Cata and maybe in WOD, but in WOLTK is awful

    If you remove EMFH, everybody will reroll horde for pvp because their racials will be much better than the alliance ones. Removing all racials could be a solution if you want a custom stuff.
    Edited: April 16, 2018

  12. In defense of EMFH, I must say that is the only competitive racial for pvp in the alliance. My main is Draenei, and the racial is useless in Icecrown, in special agaisnt classes with 50% healing reduction (And against every class in MOP). I think it was a little better in Cata and maybe in WOD, but in WOLTK is trash racial.

    If you remove EMFH, everybody will reroll horde for pvp because their racials will be much better than the alliance ones.
    If there was no Human EMFH, I’d roll a dorf unholy with smourne or WF mace before any hordie plate mdps.
    Edited: April 16, 2018

  13. In defense of EMFH, I have to say that is the only current competitive pvp racial for the alliance. My main is Draenei, and the racial is useless in Icecrown, in special agaisnt classes with 50% healing reduction (And against every class in MOP). I think it was a little better in Cata and maybe in WOD, but in WOLTK is awful

    If you remove EMFH, everybody will reroll horde for pvp because their racials will be much better than the alliance ones. Removing all racials could be a solution if you want a custom stuff.
    Shadowmeld, escape artist and stoneform against war stomp and arcane torrent, kind of doubt that many players would move to horde. In my eyes alliance has alot better racials even without emfh.

  14. Shadowmeld, escape artist and stoneform against war stomp and arcane torrent, kind of doubt that many players would move to horde. In my eyes alliance has alot better racials even without emfh.
    C'mon, horde have all AOE cc racial, +20% haste on trolls, orcs with Blood fury+hardiness+command+expertise on axe. Orc dk with lolmourne....

    If Dwarf and gnome racials are that good, then explain me why these are the less played races??? I would happily take troll racial on my Draenei elemental shaman, or orc racials on my dwarf hunter. This is my order: Human racial> Orc> Blood elves> Troll> Tauren> Night elf> Dwarf> forsaken= Gnome>Draenei.

    I remember warmane had to incentivate players to play alliance on TBC because everybody was horde.
    Edited: April 16, 2018

  15. If Dwarf and gnome racials are that good, then explain me why these are the less played races??? I would happily take troll racial on my Draenei elemental shaman, or orc racials on my dwarf hunter..
    1. Because humans are better.
    2. God knows why haven’t you picked Troll/Orc.

    If she’s female, is ir because she’s sexy? I picked my male Draenei because of the laugh and because he’s huge and masculant guy, like I am too(sorry for modesty here).

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