Hey, I'm a longterm Frostwolf player and I gotta admit that I don't enjoy playing bgs at all anymore. Therefore, I've thought about potential ways of fixing it:
Most of the bgs I play currently end up with one faction getting farmed at their graveyard. While farming can be fun for certain people for some time, I doubt even those people are able to enjoy it for more than 2-3 bgs in a row. I personally don't find it fun at all. No matter whether I'm on the recieving or giving end. It's just boring to stay there and farm those suicidal people who decided to keep ressing and jumping down and it's even less enjoyable to stay at GY and watch those die.
Problem: power disparity between teams.
Possible Solutions:
(i) Cross Faction bgs.
No matter which faction has the upper hand at one point, both sides in that bg have a chance to get geared people. Furthermore, this will surely lower que times.
(ii) Split premade groups and create teams that have similar ilvl averages.
Let's say there are 10 people queueing. P=(p1, ... ,p10) are the players that are in que. Let L=(L1, ... ,L10) be the vector that contains the ilvls (pi has ilvl Li for all i=1,...,10).
Example: P1,...,P4 happen to be Devastation members who like to que together in order to play with friends. All of them have ilvl 550. P5 is a lonely Myriad member (also 550) who decided to do a bg on his own. P6,...,P9 are alliance players who just hit 90. These alliance players all have ilvl 500 and P10 is another alliance player with 550 who is also queueing alone.
Without x-faction these people would end up in a bg together with one team having an average ilvl of 550 and the other team having an average ilvl of 510. No matter how skilled the alliance team is, their chance of winning is extremely small.
With x-faction a better way of putting those teams together is possible. The system could put the Myriad member into the alliance team and take one of the ilvl 500 alliance players and put it into the Devastation team. This would result in one team having an average of 540 and the other team having an average of 520. This doesn't sound too bad, but still puts the lower team into a really bad spot. Even if the 550 alliance player and the myriad member play really well, suboptimal gameplay by those 3 500s makes them lose that bg. The chances are not in their favor.
If we have x-faction bgs and split that Devastation premade up into 2 groups of 2, we could end up with teams that have 3x 550 and 2x 500. This is perfectly balanced. If we let people stay in 2 man premades, the worst case that can happen is 2x 550 and 3x low vs 5x low.
But how to decide which player gets into what team?
Create a vector K that has the components of L sorted such that K1<...<K5 (to make it well defined substitute 'less than' with 'less or equal than') and sort the vector P the same way (and call the sorted vector Q).
In our example: K=(L6, ..., L9, L1, ..., L4, L5, L10), Q=(p6, ..., p9, p1, ..., p4, p5, p10)
Now take the first and the last component and team them up:
(Team alliance) TA:=(p6, p10, 0, ..., 0) [Average ilvl: 525]
Now take the second and the second last and team them up:
(Team horde) TH:=(p7, p5, 0, ..., 0) [Average ilvl: 525]
Keep doing it this way...
TA=(p6, p10, p8, p4, 0) [Average ilvl: 525]
TH=(p7, p5, p9, p3, 0) [Average ilvl: 525]
Now we split the left over players (p1 and p2) and put one of them into TA and the other one into TH.
TA = (p6, p10, p8, p4, p1) [Average ilvl: 530]
TH=(p7, p5, p9, p3, p2) [Average ilvl: 530]
In order to keep 2 man premades you could always take pairs of people instead of single players and put them together. Example: instead of taking p6 and p10 first, it could take p6, p7 and p5, p10 and put them into a group and so on.
(iii) ilvl scaling for low gear.
Another way of changing the situation for the better would be the scaling of gear that is above ilvl 416, but below 512, to itemlvl 512.
In wotlk for example, you're able to deal damage even in low gear. There's a chance of beating that bad warrior who just charged you. In mop you'll never chew through Second wind. Other classes have heals aswell and you can just forget killing them unless you're at a specific ilvl. This makes MoP gearing feel absolutely bad and getting teamed up with those 300k people in a bg makes geared players feel just as bad. Getting crafted pvp gear helps, but it's not a solution. Therefore, scaling the ilvl of mop items to ilvl 512 seems like a better solution. Having your Dreadful crafted set upscaled to 512 still puts you ahead to those who don't have one, because it has the set bonus and better stats in general than contender or those blue dungeon and green quest items.
Ilvl scaling adds items to the list of viable gear for low geared people but doesn't make them viable for end game pvp.
I'd love to hear your opinion.
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Member
Frostwolf BG situation and possible solutions
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Member
This is obviously the best way to optimize PvP , about the 3rd point no wonder even blizzard fixed it on retail by doing the ilvl scaling in indoor pvp with Warlords of Draenor expansion and it worked perfectly (imho WoD had the best PvP ever also because of this). I made a thread about implementing a minimum iLvl required to queue for BGs that might also help: my thread
The x-faction bg is also great and a lot of server implemented it especially when running low on population though it requires some relevant modifications that might be an issue for a server that appear to barely have devs working on it.
About the premade splitting...it's so commonplace and simple that any average IQ person would wonder why it's not already in place but w/e, the point is it will most likely lead to massive nerdrage since 90% of premades that pretend to be "having fun with friends" are just a bunch of 550's grouped by global chat that want easy games.
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Member
I wish more players would make posts on this. I linked it @ a Frostwolf thread about bgs and talked to people on global about it.
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Member
Another huge disappointment is related to the ashtounding gear gap between factions in BG. Seriously I dont even understand how it is even possible. You can easiliy see average health in horde is often 400k against 530k+ for alliance. How is it even possible? I mean whats the reason behind this? Horde players just keep making new alts as soon as they finish gearing the previous one? New players are only starting with their first chars on horde? I just came out of a Deepwing Gorge where 14 alliance had 550k health with at least 5 of which being 600k+ and literally 1 rogue having like 440k. I'm not even exaggerating. Sure this is not the pattern of 100% of the PuGs but the situation is not far from this painfully.
And on top of that, how can it be enjoyable when not only gear gives huge disadvantages, but raid comps as well? Why is the game even instructed to create a game where roles are sorted like this? Look at summaries.......
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Member
To be honest you just sound like someone who looses a lot of bgs. Everyone including devastation players at some point would have been farming bgs and loseing non stop during leveling their first char. In my opinion cross faction is a waste of time, they had to close SOTA rated bg as it allways spazzed out when making horde alliance players, it also tends to happen every now and again on other rated bgs, but imagine if cross faction was the norm, bug bg 24/7.
Now since ur on about devastaion a lot i assume that is the guild that beats you most in bgs. Simple solution, make a guild to counter them in bg. Make a guild, find players that want to bg and premade with them. To my knowlege there is no pvp guild on alliance, only ones that spam arena 24/7. So if you do make this guild u might be surprised by how many people want to join. Devastaion easily win 8/10 bgs they have a premade in, sometimes lose coz of better ally team and others because its 5 550 devas+ 8 people under 500 ilvl, its the luck of the draw. Now in this case of many lows, geared players have to really show their skill if they want a chance in winning, and its not impossible like the messages here would have you beleive.
But another problem which only alliance can blame themselves for is going to horde to level chars in bg. Ive come accross many people saying their main is alliance but they lvl to 522 on horde as they cant win bgs on alliance, then they will transfer back to alliance,stop bgs and do only arena. If thats the mentality then alliance really doesnt have a chance of ever being superior to the horde in bgs.
Also bg qs are getting quite long on this server, mainly because of population. To fix this i would hope moderators would decide to advertise this server on private server ranking pages or anywhere else they can think of (atm i can only find one other webpage that promotes frostwolf apart from warmane itsself). There are servers that are at the top of those lists with a couple hundred daily votes and i think frostwolf could easily double that. Warmane are capable of intense advertising for servers (12k people tbc and wotlk dont just appear out of thin air) and i hope it will soon be applied to frostwolf.Edited: May 4, 2018
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Member
I havnt played frostwolf in a bit, so forgive me if this is no longer accurate.
The weekly cap of 2200 was made up on retail of 1800 arena points (which included wins from random bgs, it also raised up with higher rating) and 400 rbg points (rated battleground). Which meant that geared people had to arena every week and also run 1 rbg every week to get the 2200.
On frostwolf however the random bg cap goes towards the rbg cap, meaning once you reach 1800 via arenas you have to either do a rbg, which are dead, or grind a lot of random bgs.
Which leads, you guessed it, to a bunch of premades. Because why grind down normal bgs when you can easily form a 540+ bg group in a minute and queue and almost guarantee a win for yourself? This happens on both sides and then you arrive at icercrown levels of bgs. Which is that if you are in a premade you dominate everything and if you arent you get stomped over and over. Only that unlike icecrown the game actually promotes and makes people play random bgs once the conquest gearing starts.
#Ban premades!
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Member
First off, I've 8 lvl 90 character of which 6 are horde. 5 of them have ilvl 550. The lowest ilvl is at 530. I don't know if the statistics tab on frostwolf is accurate, but it's saying I've a win rate of >70%. My journey on warmane mop started in 'and the stealthed rogues' and currently is in 'Sociopaths'. You can imagine that in addition to the premades I've been in myself, I was able to solo que into bgs with premades made by Myriad, Devastation etc., which increased my win rate even further.
The problem lies not in losing only, but in winning aswell. I don't find it fun to slaughter 300k ally players (those are the only ones that don't leave the bg after getting farmed for 10 mins already), nor do I enjoy getting farmed.
Furthermore, I'm sure warmane would script it properly. x-faction for example, requires slight changes to the rated bg / wargame system only.
Hard to counter them on horde, when there's no x-faction /cough
In addition to that, there are guilds with a higher density of high rated players that do premades.Edited: May 4, 2018
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