Realms Player Vs. Player

[Obnoxious]

"They will never change this and that"
They will if they se it's an ongoin problem in which people keep complaining about, It dosen't matter if you personally as a member of the Warmane team don't like what your reading, if people keep ignoring your rules you gotta have to do something other then ban or silence them.
If people continue posting these topics without giving a care of what any Mod / Dev / GM has to say, don't you have to do something about it?
Yes and Warmane does exactly that, numerous times have I seen things that will "NEVER change or NEVER will we implement it" then all of the sudden it's heavily supported, I wonder why.

You mean like we turned servers PvE, banned multiboxing, removed donated gear and whatever else?
I'm sorry to burst your "power of the people" bubble, but changes don't come because of the amount or recurrence of some complaining. If people keep ignoring our Forum rules, they will keep getting banned for it, no matter how many times it happens. If people keep complaining about something that the Staff and Administration don't see as a problem, it will just keep getting denied. If people keep suggesting something that keeps getting denied, it will just end up included in the section rules as something to not suggest. For something to change we have to be convinced it requires changing, and it won't matter if it's one or one thousand posting it if we don't see the need.

[Disktrasa]

"Ban rules - Regarding durations or what we do and do not ban for is up to the in-game staff. If you have a recommendation, please send a private message to Aldtharios. Do not post it here."

How about banning ninjas.

"Lordaeron realm features - Do not suggest or demand that the already-confirmed realm features be disabled, removed, etc."

Coin shop, Heirlooms, RDF.

"Custom content - If there isn't a good reason for it, don't post it. We normally have no interest in custom content at all."

Christmas event, Transmog for wotlk?

All of these topics was heavily debated before, even though you didn't want to hear about it, it seemed.
Don't get me wrong, these changes are great and I love them, but in all seriousness we are talking about big problems created by players in which warmane did nothing wrong themselves, but if it goes out of control why wouldn't you do something about it to make the servers better.

I'm not saying the players are running the servers, I'm also not saying Warmane dosen't know whats good or bad for their own servers.
I think every news / update I ever read was a really good and you do know what the servers need.
But it should not prevent people from speaking their mind.

[thyonem]

You mean like we turned servers PvE, banned multiboxing, removed donated gear and whatever else?

The only reason multiboxers haven't been banned is because they are a financial benefit to the server. That and only that. Only top donor multiboxers are viable. Non-such are banned for wintrading against themselves in arenas trying to obtain gaer. And of course that is a seemingly decent marketting choice except it isn't in the slightest, because while these multiboxers exist, pay and play today, they are one single person in control of 20 characters and when that person gets bored out of a ten years old game, which will inevitably happen, you lose all possible income from them but little do you know, by allowing their existence, you've lost possible income from tens and hundreds of players who stepped into a battleground once, got demolished by that boxer and decided to never do so again.

I'm sorry to burst your "power of the people" bubble, but changes don't come because of the amount or recurrence of some complaining.

This is hilarity at its finest posted in the "Suggestions & Changes" section of the forum.

If people keep complaining about something that the Staff and Administration don't see as a problem, it will just keep getting denied.

Have 5 staff members enter a battleground with sub-245 average item level and get them to play 10 battlegrounds. Do that on a saturday or sunday though, at peak PvP hours when there are most people active and have them record that experience of theirs, in the meanwhile, trying to convince them that watching the undeniably sexually appealing rear of the spirit healer in a battleground for its entire duration is a pleasant and decent experience for them, encouraging them to step into a battleground again.

[Obnoxious]

How about banning ninjas.

We considered it as a problem that required something to be done, as players were basically being scammed out of drops they should be entitled to.

Coin shop, Heirlooms, RDF.

We considered those things could be changed. There was no invisible "comaplin-o-meter" just waiting for a certain amount of people or posts to be reached. The server matured, we observed it mature, and we decided those things could be changed.

Christmas event, Transmog for wotlk?

No clue how events we decide to hold could have anything to do with your call for people to "keep posting more until it happens." Transmogrification falls in the same case as above.

All of these topics was heavily debated before, even though you didn't want to hear about it, it seemed.

And the point you seem to miss is that what made them happen wasn't the amount of debate, but Staff and Administration deciding the request or complain was valid. Again: if one person makes a suggestion we agree with and ten thousands repeatedly whine about one we don't, don't have doubt about which will be accepted.

But it should not prevent people from speaking their mind.

I'm going to burst another bubble of yours here: these are privately owned Forums. If the manner you "speak your mind" is one we don't want here, it (and probably you) won't remain here; if the subject you "speak your mind" about is one we have stated we don't care to hear about anymore for whatever reason (like our clear stance on multiboxers, for example), it won't remain here. So on and so forth.

[thyonem]

I'm going to burst another bubble of yours here: these are privately owned Forums. If the manner you "speak your mind" is one we don't want here, it (and probably you) won't remain here; if the subject you "speak your mind" about is one we have stated we don't care to hear about anymore for whatever reason (like our clear stance on multiboxers, for example), it won't remain here. So on and so forth.

Then I guess people should plain start spamming threads with: "give staff members a salary raise", for that won't be taken down, no doubt. Anyways, I am done with this. Opinions being disregarded in the opinions and suggestions section speaks levels for how much the staff cares. I retired PvP for a reason and I see a lot of people doing the same eventually. Comes this winter, I am moving to blizzard, which is a pity, really. I planned to donate for my holy pala and priests as well, but I no longer see a point. Thanks for the clarity.

[Meowto]

I agree 100%, premades are the cancer that destroys BGs. Its the same on every server bar TBC (which i dont play on so idk). They dont want fun fights or good fights, they all just want to farm kills and feel superior (anyone who has been in a pvp guild on this server knows that the vast majority of premades get disbanded after the first loss or close fight). On servers where RBGs are a thing (and ffs, stop calling random battlegrounds rbgs, it stands for rated battleground) no one uses them.

AV enabler is horrible, but even queuing 3-4 BIS DPS with 1-2 BIS healers usually is enough to totally remove the fun from any BG.




BGs are for gearing first and foremost, and may new players on this server will play bgs, experience the ****fest that is random BGs and WG with Multiboxers, and quit. And if we are talking about problems with the gearing system, the fact that you have to face full BiS smourne users at 1200mmr is a problem too. The natural gearing process of the server is in need of a revamp.


But i guess it motivates the people that didnt quit to donate, so in that regard it probably is seen as something positive.

[Obnoxious]

Then I guess people should plain start spamming threads with: "give staff members a salary raise", for that won't be taken down, no doubt.

Then why don't you try it?

Opinions being disregarded in the opinions and suggestions section speaks levels for how much the staff cares. I retired PvP for a reason and I see a lot of people doing the same eventually. Comes this winter, I am moving to blizzard, which is a pity, really. I planned to donate for my holy pala and priests as well, but I no longer see a point. Thanks for the clarity.

You put too much weight in your personal opinion if you consider it impossible to be disregarded and act like this if it isn't automatically catered to and you are faced with the prospect of the people who make the decisions disagreeing with you. Makes me wonder how do you deal with the government and their decisions, if you just move continuously from city to city.

[Disktrasa]

I just meant to take a few examples, if you were to tell me the Warmane staff came up with this themselves without any influence coming from the forums I would doubt that.
The topics I posted about are all good ideas which is why I believe Warmane implemented them, but at the time they were "do not post this" topics.
And from all the support and ideas on how to further improve that good idea lets take transmog as example, it went from a big no, to sure.

You mean like we turned servers PvE, banned multiboxing, removed donated gear and whatever else?

No because these are all bad ideas.

[thyonem]

Then why don't you try it?

...

You put too much weight in your personal opinion if you consider it impossible to be disregarded and act like this if it isn't automatically catered to and you are faced with the prospect of the people who make the decisions disagreeing with you. Makes me wonder how do you deal with the government and their decisions, if you just move continuously from city to city.

Mate, my opinion is not from the "farmed" one's point of view. It's from the point of view of the one doing the farming. I stampede through battlegrounds with little to no effort when I play with friends alone, one to two healers in-between them. My personal opinion is not a personal opinion at all - it is the opinion of all these people that were told that their opinions were to be disregarded because they are not the opinions that are being sought out at the moment.

Warmane staff is not the government. The government is the government and it is in real life. Warmane is not real life. It is quite the opposite actually - it is a place I go to when I seek to distress and enjoy some of my free time, escaping the harsh reality of existence and the glutches of the government. As a member of this community, I seek to improve it by making valid suggestions that would cease the catering to toxic individuals who disregard all but their thirst for HK's in battlegrounds and favouring those who seek to be like myself, enjoying their time playing the game they love playing in the most active available server.

[Obnoxious]

Mate, my opinion is not from the "farmed" one's point of view. It's from the point of view of the one doing the farming. I stampede through battlegrounds with little to no effort when I play with friends alone, one to two healers in-between them. My personal opinion is not a personal opinion at all - it is the opinion of all these people that were told that their opinions were to be disregarded because they are not the opinions that are being sought out at the moment.

Should I have used plural then? Assume I did.

Warmane staff is not the government. The government is the government and it is in real life. Warmane is not real life. It is quite the opposite actually - it is a place I go to when I seek to distress and enjoy some of my free time, escaping the harsh reality of existence and the glutches of the government.

As far as Warmane itself, Staff is its "government." We don't and never did run this as a Democracy. We listen, but we reserve ourselves the right to decide on how to act about what we listen to - which includes disregarding it.

As a member of this community, I seek to improve it by making valid suggestions that would cease the catering to toxic individuals who disregard all but their thirst for HK's in battlegrounds and favouring those who seek to be like myself, enjoying their time playing the game they love playing in the most active available server.

Yes, precisely: you want to get rid of what you dislike so you can enjoy what you like. Yet I don't see you being up to not going in with a premade (which makes you part of the problem you are complaining about), or did I miss it?

[Shred92]

The server is made to accomodate a certain profile of player. If you think you can change that, you really are losing your time.

[thyonem]

Fair enough. You listen and you reserve yourselves the right to not take the heard in considereation. That's rational. If we took all ideas under consideration the server would be in a way worse state than this issue with PvP. But I ask of your time for a final time - can you tell me how my ideas are a bad idea, rather than a good one and how they would negatively impact the game?

Edit: Yes, exactly. I am a part of the problem because I play the game with my gear. That shouldn't be the case. The problem is not that premades of 5 people do and can exist - the problem is who they are matched against and the ability of greater premades existing, enough to fill full battlegrounds, at times.

Edit #2: The problem I am complaining about is that battlegrounds are stale. Never in my original post did I state that my issue is with premades or donator gear. My problem is with the matchmaking disbalance and my suggestion in the second to last pargraph is how I proposed to fix that issue. And all problems would be eliminated if the average item level, gear score, whatever, of both teams in a battleground was the same, or at worst, similar which can be implemented with already existing in-game systems.

[Obnoxious]

Because of two things that I personally can see:

1. You're trying to set rules and limitations to something that, as the name says, is meant to be random. Dungeons have a requirement just because they are made for a group at a bare minimum point in gear. Battlegrounds are inherently gear-neutral. You aren't going to be facing a boss that requires this or that, you will be facing random players or groups of players. The very fact they are random should be enough to say they are something casual, that you're throwing yourself at whatever comes; and

2. How would that affect queue times? If we go by your examples, of how often you "faceroll" vs. how often you lose or have a challenge, how many people would rather wait that long to get queued with a "balanced" group instead of just having quick, casual fun? And where to draw the line? Is 25 item levels difference enough? Won't a premade with everyone 25 item levels higher still outmatch random disorganized people in the weaker gear just the same?

[thyonem]

Because of two things that I personally can see:

1. You're trying to set rules and limitations to something that, as the name says, is meant to be random. Dungeons have a requirement just because they are made for a group at a bare minimum point in gear. Battlegrounds are inherently gear-neutral. You aren't going to be facing a boss that requires this or that, you will be facing random players or groups of players. The very fact they are random should be enough to say they are something casual, that you're throwing yourself at whatever comes; and

2. How would that affect queue times? If we go by your examples, of how often you "faceroll" vs. how often you lose or have a challenge, how many people would rather wait that long to get queued with a "balanced" group instead of just having quick, casual fun? And where to draw the line? Is 25 item levels difference enough? Won't a premade with everyone 25 item levels higher still outmatch random disorganized people in the weaker gear just the same?

Your points are indeed fair and valid and had me rethink the basics of my idea just to get me to twirl around and find another potential solution that eliminates the need to worry about both of your agruements and requires a slightly altered version of a code that is already in the game.

BGR or battleground rating just for short. Each individual's performance in a battleground works to affect their personal battleground rating. Much like with my previous idea, the average of your team's premade is what determins the rating of the battleground you are to enter.

But wait - how does that affect queue times AND the randomness aspect of random battlegrounds? Simple. Make it an option, rather than a rule to enter. Have people who want to play as they do now keep on doing so while allowing people who want to play on a similar higher level progressively do so with Rated Battlegrounds. I do understand how such code can be somewhat of a nuisance to implement, but in the end of the day, MMR for arenas already exists and as a fellow programmer (C++/C#) it is (though not simple), definitely not hard to make such a thing reality by tweaking an already existing code.

[Obnoxious]

Your points are indeed fair and valid and had me rethink the basics of my idea just to get me to twirl around and find another potential solution that eliminates the need to worry about both of your agruements and requires a slightly altered version of a code that is already in the game.

BGR or battleground rating just for short. Each individual's performance in a battleground works to affect their personal battleground rating. Much like with my previous idea, the average of your team's premade is what determins the rating of the battleground you are to enter.

But wait - how does that affect queue times AND the randomness aspect of random battlegrounds? Simple. Make it an option, rather than a rule to enter. Have people who want to play as they do now keep on doing so while allowing people who want to play on a similar higher level progressively do so with Rated Battlegrounds. I do understand how such code can be somewhat of a nuisance to implement, but in the end of the day, MMR for arenas already exists and as a fellow programmer (C++/C#) it is (though not simple), definitely not hard to make such a thing reality by tweaking an already existing code.

If you start segregating Random Battlegrounds behind ratings, aren't you just making them a sort of Rated ones and throwing the whole casual aspect of the randomness out of the window just the same, in an expansion that didn't have Rated in the first place? It might not even be a case of nuisance to implement, but about it being a major piece of custom content the Administration probably wouldn't be up to having. You'd probably be pointed towards an expansion that has Rated or Blackrock to have this PvP competition focus. Plus it doesn't addresses the queue time point. If there are few well geared people queuing, the times are going to be large the moment you start this kind of gear-based separation, no matter how you paint it.