Queue removal upon joining a battleground

[borix]

In my guild people are already quiting pvp because of long queues, and less honor gain per hour. I think this will hurt warmane pvp.

[AvaNexecre]

Cool idea and i didn't like the queue-hopping, but horde queue times are very long now, just waited 15 mins for a single bg

Edit, played a few more; I think queueing 4 at once should be allowed now, don't see why not, unless there's a technical limitation Overall, a good change for geared players, but I don't envy all the new chars trying to gear up - collecting 40 of a specific mark will take insanely long, even if you win every single game

[Jakkre]

The long queue times are the cost that u take for having the stronger racials.
If u want instant BGs then just switch to alliance.

In no case a BG should be abused as a time sink where u spend a few mins until the prefered BG pops up. I'm very glad that they implemented these changes so ppl are no longer able to ruin the BG balance with their BG hopping.

[Torrentz]

Please tell me if I'm missing anything with this but:

Pros of this change:
More 'balanced' teams, i.e. 15v15, 10v10 and hopefully more meaningful PvP

Cons of this change:
Longer queue times
Reduced honor gain rates
Reduced mark gain rates
Encourages premades (can be viewed as a negative or a positive, though I'd view it mostly as a negative)

While the intention of the change is good, I feel like the downsides of this change outweigh the positives. With the recent change, queue times on Horde have become much much higher and as others have noted, it's become more common to spend a lot longer in BGs to end up with a loss which drastically reduces honor and mark gain. I can see a lot of players being unhappy with this.

Perhaps it's worth testing a middle-of-the-ground solution? Perhaps where players can only queue for TWO battlegrounds maximum, rather than three (but can still switch between BGs after joining one)? In that scenario, queue times wouldn't be so drastically affected and you would hopefully still have a high probability of players getting a balanced BG. Might be worth trying.

[mauhbi]

I think remove this hopping through bgs completly is the wrong way.
Reduce it to 2 battlegrounds so the ppl can only hop in "1" other bg and not to the next, mhhh its bad, to the next, fuugg also bad, to the next ahh good group... - try and see - my opinion.

The time until the chosen bg is popping sucks for this amount of players on this server. People already talked about alterac - and come on, AV nearly ALWAYS is full with 40v40 - except the early hours of the day.

And what about PVP Guilds? Premade groups cant really play with this new system.
Im also in a PVP guild, im not raiding anymore and this is destroying this guilds, u will see...

With the beginning of Season4 it will become better, nonset items need rating and this keeps pve player or those 1-2 hit-down fresh 70s away from bgs.
Open pvp will start again if SWP opens.

Fresh 70s who decided to play PVP, will take weeks, months for getting equip... its even hard if you only play pvp, but its much harder if u have nothing.
If S4 season starts, it becomes more difficult... PVP players who already got 75k honor and all marks to the limit will have much better equip than player, who are starting now, it will be unequal as hell... and thats for a looong time... and you think that this will solve the BG problem?

There are such great things on this server
- account alliance and horde
- higher xp, so you can become 70 very fast
- multiboxxer is allowed
- shop items
- great amount of players

So we should not wonder, if some things on this server are not working as it worked on blizz few years ago.


So my suggestion to you is, reduce it to 2 bgs, maybe push the deserter debuff to 30mins (debuff must not get expired if account is offline!)
But not do this in this radical way. Please try some suggestions, watch it, and if its not working there will be other suggestions for sure.

And if all is not working, you can still reduce all, like it is today....

greets

[Jaxonville]

Yeah, I know that this is my very first post on this forum. However, I think that my opinion should be equally accepted. I simply had nothing crucial to discuss before as everything was working as smooth as it could be. From what I can see here, mods are being very hostile towards people who dislike the idea of this new change.

As someone who came to this server for pure PVP action only, I really liked the fast queues and the number of people playing PVP on this server. However, right now we are suffering a lot due to complaints of the minority. The answer is 'more balanced' BGs. Well, what is more balanced? Having 15v15 with 7 people afk and other 7 having 2k gs or below? That's far from balanced. Yeah, I am aware that before we had 3v10 BGs, but at least they end fast and we can queue up again and get the better BG in the next circle. For myself and for the majority of my guild (which is pure PVP guild, the best one on ally side), this new change is awful. Last night we tried to play a premade and we ended up in 30+ mins queue. Later on, I tried to solo queue AB and I also ended up in 20+ mins queue.

I mean if this is the price to pay for the new change, I am totally not up for it. I know you will say how it's only me and majority want it in a different way. If that's the case let's run a poll? Or should I get the whole guild to write in this thread and confirm otherwise? I mean it's simple to check on your admin side who is playing actively PVP and who is not. You should prolly value the opinion of those people who are here for PVP only. The rest of people are just playing it casually and I assume it doesn't concern them much if they have a fast queue or not. I might be wrong, but yeah.

The current way of the queues is completely discouraging the new players to dive into PVP waters on this server. If the server is higher than x1 rate, why the hell would someone need half year to get the starting PVP gear? Even full s3 geared people like us will need a month or two to get s3 honor cap due to this change. So, I can only imagine how new players will struggle and how many of them will quit.

Before you mods jump on me like you did on some other people who wrote in this thread before me, just think a second how you are making this for the users, and you should value our opinions more, especially when you ask us for one. No need to be hostile, just a friendly advice.

[borix]

Jaxonville +1 Almost no new player will have the time to play this much, and most of the time doing nothing.

[Obnoxious]

But they did not have to wait long for another bg.

So all the other players having to repeatedly lose because half or more of their team ditches is irrelevant, all that matter is you not waiting? Guess what I call that.

Then its self centered from their point of view. And im not trying to harm anyone im just saying that this change also could have a bad effect on the pvp players.

I was wondering if you would go there. Even thought you wouldn't trap yourself. You see, sure, you can call them self-centered - just like burglars (and I suppose SJWs, saying it was "society's fault" or that burglary is just "a cultural expression of the oppressed") would call "self-centered" the people of a neighborhood being hit by a huge crime wave who demand an increase in police activity to stop it. The point of the matter is that you just want to get fast battlegrounds to grind honor quickly, while they want to actually play full battlegrounds the way they were meant to. They aren't asking for special treatment, they are just expecting battleground to be a commitment and played to the end - which, to me, is nothing more than "doing it right."

I agree 100% there must be a better way.

Sure. Get the people who queue multiple battlegrounds and ditch them to stop doing that and there will be no need for this change.

Before you mods jump on me like you did on some other people who wrote in this thread before me, just think a second how you are making this for the users, and you should value our opinions more, especially when you ask us for one. No need to be hostile, just a friendly advice.

If you bring more to the table than "I can't grind honor fast enough and that's more important than the people who actually want to play battlegrounds, not just farm" you might get a different reaction. The higher wait time is just the real wait time being exposed when people who already plan on ditching most of what they queued for are out of the equation. This just brings to light the problem created by players that led to this change and shows how bad it was on the players who want to play and not just grind quick losses in between a sporadic actual match. To quote Jakkre, "In no case a BG should be abused as a time sink where u spend a few mins until the prefered BG pops up." That's nothing short of disrespectful towards the people who are in fact there to play, and throwing "but they get a new one fast" just digs the hole deeper.

[AvaNexecre]

If you bring more to the table than "I can't grind honor fast enough and that's more important than the people who actually want to play battlegrounds, not just farm" you might get a different reaction.

Come on though, I'd say at least 1/3 of all the players in BGs are just there farming honour gear to use in PVE or Arenas. So many in solo-queue are like 1300gs (both horde and ally). I don't think they're there for some noble RP battle experience

[borix]

So all the other players having to repeatedly lose because half or more of their team ditches is irrelevant, all that matter is you not waiting? Guess what I call that.


I was wondering if you would go there. Even thought you wouldn't trap yourself. You see, sure, you can call them self-centered - just like burglars (and I suppose SJWs, saying it was "society's fault" or that burglary is just "a cultural expression of the oppressed") would call "self-centered" the people of a neighborhood being hit by a huge crime wave who demand an increase in police activity to stop it. The point of the matter is that you just want to get fast battlegrounds to grind honor quickly, while they want to actually play full battlegrounds the way they were meant to. They aren't asking for special treatment, they are just expecting battleground to be a commitment and played to the end - which, to me, is nothing more than "doing it right."


Sure. Get the people who queue multiple battlegrounds and ditch them to stop doing that and there will be no need for this change.


If you bring more to the table than "I can't grind honor fast enough and that's more important than the people who actually want to play battlegrounds, not just farm" you might get a different reaction. The higher wait time is just the real wait time being exposed when people who already plan on ditching most of what they queued for are out of the equation. This just brings to light the problem created by players that led to this change and shows how bad it was on the players who want to play and not just grind quick losses in between a sporadic actual match. To quote Jakkre, "In no case a BG should be abused as a time sink where u spend a few mins until the prefered BG pops up." That's nothing short of disrespectful towards the people who are in fact there to play, and throwing "but they get a new one fast" just digs the hole deeper.

First of all i have full honor gear!!! So it has nothing to do with me in that sens. It has nothing to do with some theory, they do it because they want something and so do you and I. Im saying if a new pvp comes here and have to wait 4+ month before he gets real pvp gear and most of it is waiting he most likely /quits before. And that means that the pvp player base will decrease, and then at some point disappear. You want faster lvl this is why you joined a 5x server. same thing. The pvps you talk about still gets as many "quality" bgs now they just have to wait 20 minutes+ doing nothing.

[Obnoxious]

Come on though, I'd say at least 1/3 of all the players in BGs are just there farming honour gear to use in PVE or Arenas. So many in solo-queue are like 1300gs (both horde and ally). I don't think they're there for some noble RP battle experience

Even in your made up numbers that leaves two-thirds that are having their experience hindered when they just want to play battlegrounds "right."

First of all i have full honor gear!!! So it has nothing to do with me in that sens. It has nothing to do with some theory, they do it because they want something and so do you and I. Im saying if a new pvp comes here and have to wait 4+ month before he gets real pvp gear and most of it is waiting he most likely /quits before. And that means that the pvp player base will decrease, and then at some point disappear. You want faster lvl this is why you joined a 5x server. same thing. The pvps you talk about still gets as many "quality" bgs now they just have to wait 20 minutes+ doing nothing.

Perhaps you have alts? I don't know. I can't say I understand your reasoning when you don't need honor. I'd expect someone like that to be glad future battlegrounds will be meaningful and not just quick losses until an actual match happens. Maybe you have fun accumulating losses because of ditchers or lack something else to do with your time while you wait for an actual match, I don't know.

Im saying if a new pvp comes here and have to wait 4+ month before he gets real pvp gear and most of it is waiting he most likely /quits before. And that means that the pvp player base will decrease, and then at some point disappear. You want faster lvl this is why you joined a 5x server. same thing.

Except that the high rate doesn't applies to honor gains as far as I know, does it? Which means it was never intended for the PvP gearing to be faster than normal in the first place.

The pvps you talk about still gets as many "quality" bgs now they just have to wait 20 minutes+ doing nothing.

Actually, no, that's not necessarily a fact. The change just happened. In time the "ditchers" might just realize that the solution for not having long waits is to queue multiple ones as before, with the only change being that now you have to play whichever comes up first if you don't want the wait. Because that's the sole reason for higher waiting times: people are preferring to wait and play just a specific one, instead of queuing for multiple ones and actually playing the first one that quickly pops up. Lowering the wait times is in the players' hands.

[aiyai]

Pros of this change:
More 'balanced' teams, i.e. 15v15, 10v10 and hopefully more meaningful PvP

Cons of this change:
Longer queue times
Reduced honor gain rates
Reduced mark gain rates
Encourages premades (can be viewed as a negative or a positive, though I'd view it mostly as a negative)

Perhaps where players can only queue for TWO battlegrounds maximum, rather than three..

Very good summary. For me the biggest problem is increased waiting time to 10-15 minutes on BG, and insanely slow gearing which will discourage new players from PVPing here. Yes, we were getting unfair BGs like 3v10, but 10v10 can be as unfair as 5v10 (for those undergeared 10 ppl vs 5 bis ppl), since we never match people by gear.

So.. After this change we have slower honor, longer queues, more premades (which will ruin other team's fun), in exchange for what, more 15v15 bg? Majority of them were already fully filled by people. Every AV is 40v40, most AB and EOTS are too. Can't talk for wsg as I don't visit it often.

So.. how about we change that to two BG? Or at least exclude AV from that queue removal, since it's ALWAYS getting full.

[Jaxonville]

Perhaps you have alts? I don't know. I can't say I understand your reasoning when you don't need honor. I'd expect someone like that to be glad future battlegrounds will be meaningful and not just quick losses until an actual match happens. Maybe you have fun accumulating losses because of ditchers or lack something else to do with your time while you wait for an actual match, I don't know.

It seems like you are taking parts of our replies which suits you the best. No one is here for lossing. As for myself, I am pretty sure that I am very competitive player and yes, I have 8 characters that I play on this server, where all eight are only PVP chars. Before this BG change I used to have at least 90% win rate in BGs in premades, after this change it is still the same with the fact that we now have to wait for the long queue. Solo queue is still random and the sad truth is that mostly low geared people are queueing and it brings no balance in battlegrounds, but you are clearly denying it. And no, I am not trying to only cap the honor, if that was the case half of my alts would be out of the game for quite some time now. I am still playing both arena and battlegrounds only because I am competitive player and I enjoy in PVPing, but there is no enjoy in waiting 20 mins in the queue to "rape" the other side in below 4 mins. That's far from competitive and it is really rare chance to actually get a decent opponent nowadays. Even Horde premades are sucking compared to ours. I saw people saying above that others should switch to Alliance for an instant queue. Well, that's not true.

If you really want to keep the current system, why not allowing players to choose whether they want to queue with this system or with the old one? Everyone's will would be satisfied. Those who want to have 'better experience' as you say, they would queue in the current system, while the others would rather use the old one. I see no harm in that?

And the final note, isn't this thread meant to collect user opinions, so how come one single mod is fighting every single opinion here? Literally trying to prove everyone wrong. Aren't you supposed to just moderate the talk and make sure that everything is written here in the manner of the forum rules? It feels when I read this thread that your opinion is valued more than from the regular users. You are literally trying to shut us down in a sense "if you are not enough smart to impress me with your reply, you deserve no better answer than this". I do have a few years long experience in service desk and customer help environment, and this is not how it is supposed to be done.

[Obnoxious]

It seems like you are taking parts of our replies which suits you the best. No one is here for lossing. As for myself, I am pretty sure that I am very competitive player and yes, I have 8 characters that I play on this server, where all eight are only PVP chars. Before this BG change I used to have at least 90% win rate in BGs in premades, after this change it is still the same with the fact that we now have to wait for the long queue. Solo queue is still random and the sad truth is that mostly low geared people are queueing and it brings no balance in battlegrounds, but you are clearly denying it. And no, I am not trying to only cap the honor, if that was the case half of my alts would be out of the game for quite some time now. I am still playing both arena and battlegrounds only because I am competitive player and I enjoy in PVPing, but there is no enjoy in waiting 20 mins in the queue to "rape" the other side in below 4 mins. That's far from competitive and it is really rare chance to actually get a decent opponent nowadays. Even Horde premades are sucking compared to ours. I saw people saying above that others should switch to Alliance for an instant queue. Well, that's not true.

No, I'm just not repeating myself in the parts that don't add anything new. But what I get from this now is that you're annoyed that your premades have to wait longer to "rape" the opposing team, as ditchers aren't queuing multiple battlegrounds they don't intend to play, and that's not fun. You don't have an issue or even analyze if the chances of getting decent opponents might increase, you just care that the "rape" has been slowed down.

If you really want to keep the current system, why not allowing players to choose whether they want to queue with this system or with the old one? Everyone's will would be satisfied. Those who want to have 'better experience' as you say, they would queue in the current system, while the others would rather use the old one. I see no harm in that?

In my personal opinion, because of what I previously quoted Jakkre on.

And the final note, isn't this thread meant to collect user opinions, so how come one single mod is fighting every single opinion here? Literally trying to prove everyone wrong. Aren't you supposed to just moderate the talk and make sure that everything is written here in the manner of the forum rules? It feels when I read this thread that your opinion is valued more than from the regular users. You are literally trying to shut us down in a sense "if you are not enough smart to impress me with your reply, you deserve no better answer than this". I do have a few years long experience in service desk and customer help environment, and this is not how it is supposed to be done.

Nice to meet you. People say my nickname is appropriate.
My job is just to moderate and enforce Forum rules, yes. But that doesn't means in any way that I can't give my opinions, input or counter arguments I see as just selfish.

[borix]

Even in your made up numbers that leaves two-thirds that are having their experience hindered when they just want to play battlegrounds "right."


Perhaps you have alts? I don't know. I can't say I understand your reasoning when you don't need honor. I'd expect someone like that to be glad future battlegrounds will be meaningful and not just quick losses until an actual match happens. Maybe you have fun accumulating losses because of ditchers or lack something else to do with your time while you wait for an actual match, I don't know.


Except that the high rate doesn't applies to honor gains as far as I know, does it? Which means it was never intended for the PvP gearing to be faster than normal in the first place.


Actually, no, that's not necessarily a fact. The change just happened. In time the "ditchers" might just realize that the solution for not having long waits is to queue multiple ones as before, with the only change being that now you have to play whichever comes up first if you don't want the wait. Because that's the sole reason for higher waiting times: people are preferring to wait and play just a specific one, instead of queuing for multiple ones and actually playing the first one that quickly pops up. Lowering the wait times is in the players' hands.

I have an alt and yes at some point i want to get honor gear. And yes i want more quality bgs but i dont get more now then i use to, now i just have to wait and do nothing in between bgs. But the reason its hard on new dinged players is because there are marks in the game and that they are needed to buy specific items so at some point they have to join a specific bg and then wait a long time.
The reason why people joined multiply bgs was because AV was the safe honor grind so you could always join that if the opposite faction out geared or outnumbered you. I just waited 10 minutes before bg popped and i joined 3 bg queues.
The thing is from now on it will take maybe 3 times as long to get honor gear. I have played 20 days in game just to get honor gear, lets say i spend half the time pvping, so from now on it takes 30 days in game just to get the worst pvp gear.