Status of Horde PvP/WG?

[Kairu]

Me, being a PvE scrub and just playing the game to socialize with peeps, skims through this thread wondering what it's about. After skimming through the thread, I see a lot of things I don't understand, and as a result, this is my reaction:

[Irrelevantt]

People moved to Horde because PvE is more competitive there, not for virtue of the community alone, but because racials were designed to grant a significant advantage in a PvE environment. Ranging from 30% haste, attack power, passive % damage modifiers and more, it made horde more lucrative.
That's my 2 contributory cents on the issue.

[szike22]

I have to agree with the majority horde passive is better for pve than alliance, and whenever I joined any pvp content on both sides, it was always a gamble of which side wins. But yeah, the rumor has it that the human racial is not a disadvantage to have in pvp.

[Gnimo]

https://www.google.rs/amp/s/amp.redd...mbalance_rant/

There is a Video on Youtube aswell, search for:
"WoW The Faction Inbalance Rant".

From my pov, Horde was always and still is favored by Blizzard (or atleast TBC+).

As for why BGs and WG suck more lately, i can think of another reason that does not involve racials but rather lazy players...

I quit mainly cos i was getting dragged down and losing to "Green" or undeargeared scrubs queing.
Good old players got fed up by the game or/and a new wave of snowflakes poluting the servers population.
Also, Multiboxers... Before, when it comes to WG, Horde was the one that had MBer that helped them win. Idk whats the curent state but MBer can make a lot of frustrated people quit or xfer, and it did in the past.

Or, the most common reason:
Bad RNG.

We all live and watch the world with our subjective view.
From my pov, Horde is better when it comes to both PvE and PvP.
From someone elses pov, its the other way arround...
Who knows whats true tbh.

But the reality is that most of ppl pvping could make their lives a lot easyer by just going for objectives and finishing BGs faster, so losing wont get frustrated.

I always remember one AV, where Horde was stomping Alliance at start grave, and one ally rogue instead of letting them win, was jerking arround attacking horde bases...

So yea...
Instead of QQing, u could have tryed to organise ur BG group.
But i guess its too late for that, considering how wast and bad Icecrown population became, on both skill and manner/attitude fronts...

[Ostlimpa]

Blood Elves are not bad, it's just that they are not even near good enough to match humans. = /
Arcane Torrent is nice but is very situational and only works against certain classes/specs and does not work well when you play as a caster. - EMFH works superb no matter the class you play, no matter the spec, no matter the gear, no matter the scenario. Both got 2 min CD but since EMFH allows you to use ICC trinks, their internal CD is about 45 sec, hence EMFH > AT again.

Then we have Magic Resistance. Once again, it only comes to use vs certain classes and on top of that only certain specs and on top of that again, only vs foes who are not yet BiS geared as most BiS casters sit well around 7-9% hit.

My point is, EMFH is darn powerful, but that does not mean one must nerf it, but please do something to help the Hordes. Buff the honor, offer arena gear without rating, do something to even out the odds. = /

[Mercy]

My point is, EMFH is darn powerful, but that does not mean one must nerf it[...]

I think it could use a nerf. However, nerfing just EMFH will cause other issues, which is part of the point I was trying to make. I'm not trying to state that Arcane Torrent is on the same tier as EMFH, but it is high enough above most other racial traits to cause an issue if EMFH gets the nerfbat and it doesn't.

[...]but please do something to help the Hordes. Buff the honor, offer arena gear without rating, do something to even out the odds. = /

Horde doesn't need help. Buff honor? Why? Horde can already accrue honor faster than Alliance due to instant queues VS. 10 minute queues.
Arena gear without rating? Now that suggestion just reminds me of the things you've asked for in the premium perks thread... to which the answer is the same.

[Meowto]

Gotta agree that we need more Horde PVP players.


And since we are speaking of custom fixes that never ever will see the light of day, change wotf to work exactly like emfh, so both factions have access to it (no undead palas but vOv).

[Ostlimpa]

Horde doesn't need help. Buff honor? Why? Horde can already accrue honor faster than Alliance due to instant queues VS. 10 minute queues.
Arena gear without rating? Now that suggestion just reminds me of the things you've asked for in the premium perks thread... to which the answer is the same.

Mercy I implore you to see reason. Having instant queue when the average loss takes between 8-12 minutes will not even come near to compensating for waiting 10 min in a queue and have a slaughterfest (and this is excluding the games where Alliance GY camps until the WSG 25 min timer runs out or the reinforcements in AV (can be 30 min +)).
If you do not take my word for how bad things are Mercy then go ahead and make a Horde toon yourself or borrow one of mine so you can experience the pain, the toxicity and total lack of compassion by the Alliance campers as we sit and sing songs and talk in ghost form.

Arena gear without rating. Yea you heard me right.
One of the major problems for the Horde is having a lot of undergeared players in BGs, so why not give the horde side some help? Let people get easier access to PvP gear to make the battles somewhat more even. It will be a far better experience for the horde players Horde and give Alliance players better players to test their mettle against.
Reduce the honor required for Wrathful. Remove the blasted rating from the arena gear but perhaps not the shoulders and lower the cost. Toons do not get BiS without PvE items anyway, but the PvP will be more balanced overall.

[Gnimo]

If u all dont rezz and just cancel the spirit healer, alliance will be forced to finish that BG fast or just waste as much time as you do...
The main issue, again, is not the inbalance duo to gear or racials, but the ignorance of most of the population on this server.

Same thing happens on alliance side aswell.
Instead of just denying horde with kills, they just go afk and keep getting rezzed instead of just canceling/running away from the grave and leaving them to look at the dust.

[Ostlimpa]

If u all dont rezz and just cancel the spirit healer, alliance will be forced to finish that BG fast or just waste as much time as you do...

And that's where you're wrong. Many Alliance players just like to wait it just to torment. It's like shooting a beaten soldier in the legs, splashing acid on the back and cutting out eyes and tongue just for pure pleasure.

The main issue, again, is not the inbalance duo to gear or racials, but the ignorance of most of the population on this server.

But don't you understand this? Explain to me how the blazes one side can end up getting graveyard camped by the other if it all comes down to IGNORANCE?! Seriously wtf does this so called ignorance do? Automatically reduce all stats by 95%!?

Same thing happens on alliance side aswell.

You just forgot to mention the fact that it happens far less often.

Instead of just denying horde with kills, they just go afk and keep getting rezzed instead of just canceling/running away from the grave and leaving them to look at the dust.

And can you blame them? The situation is hopeless and the people doing it got no remorse or care for the player experiencing it. And as stated before, even if ALL members of the Horde team were to stay dead the Alliance have a very sickening behavior of just drawing it out for pure torment.

[Meowto]

And that's where you're wrong. Many Alliance players just like to wait it just to torment. It's like shooting a beaten soldier in the legs, splashing acid on the back and cutting out eyes and tongue just for pure pleasure.
But don't you understand this? Explain to me how the blazes one side can end up getting graveyard camped by the other if it all comes down to IGNORANCE?! Seriously wtf does this so called ignorance do? Automatically reduce all stats by 95%!?
You just forgot to mention the fact that it happens far less often.
And can you blame them? The situation is hopeless and the people doing it got no remorse or care for the player experiencing it. And as stated before, even if ALL members of the Horde team were to stay dead the Alliance have a very sickening behavior of just drawing it out for pure torment.

Do you actually have a Ally toon? Because soloq on alliance is just as miserable as it is on Horde. You can try to snipe premades of your own side to get free wins but if you dont get one you get just as wiped as its on the other side. And people usually never draw it out if no one stops rezzing, important to keep the NO ONE in mind. Unless they are going for some achevement they will usually end it asap.


It all comes down to premades. Since a premade takes up a lot of slot on your side you are less likely to get into a group with them then against them, i.e in a 10v10 BG and one side has a 5 man premade theres 5 slots, on the other sides there 10 slots for some soloqueur to join. Making it more likely to queue against premades then with them.

And since premades autowin unless they are up against another premade (in 95% of the cases outside of AV) that means that in a match with no premade on either side its 50/50, if you queue with a premade its 95% a win and if you dont and are vs a premade its 5%, but as you are much more likely to go against a premade (due to the reasons above) then go with one you are screwed as a solo pvper.

And that is only with 5 man premades, the bigger the premades the less soloq people can join the premade side. Meaning the more you get put together with other soloquers and then you are screwed.


If you have access to premades try it out, go premade for a day and they solo queue the next day. Youll usually end up with like 90% wins on one and like 40% on the other because premades are so extremely common.

This also means that people on alliance hate on horde because they always wins and vice versa. But in my experience horde makes the bigger premades meaning soloq horde players are even more screwed.


Just gotta ban AV enabler and disable being able to queue in a group and the BG scene will instantly get healthy again.

[Ostlimpa]

Do you actually have a Ally toon? Because soloq on alliance is just as miserable as it is on Horde. You can try to snipe premades of your own side to get free wins but if you dont get one you get just as wiped as its on the other side. And people usually never draw it out if no one stops rezzing, important to keep the NO ONE in mind. Unless they are going for some achevement they will usually end it asap.

I got several ally toons and I have yet to manage losing even 100 BGs with em. GY camping does not always end with a drawn out battle, but it is far too common still.

It all comes down to premades. Since a premade takes up a lot of slot on your side you are less likely to get into a group with them then against them, i.e in a 10v10 BG and one side has a 5 man premade theres 5 slots, on the other sides there 10 slots for some soloqueur to join. Making it more likely to queue against premades then with them.

And since premades autowin unless they are up against another premade (in 95% of the cases outside of AV) that means that in a match with no premade on either side its 50/50, if you queue with a premade its 95% a win and if you dont and are vs a premade its 5%, but as you are much more likely to go against a premade (due to the reasons above) then go with one you are screwed as a solo pvper.

I want you to make a horde premade with 2-5,5k geared toons and the standard 1-2 healers. Then do 10 games and tell me how many you win. Once that is done I will meet you with my ally premade with only BiS chars and standard 3 paladins healers.

And that is only with 5 man premades, the bigger the premades the less soloq people can join the premade side. Meaning the more you get put together with other soloquers and then you are screwed.

How unfortunate then that the common horde premade can barely reach 5 players while my Alliance premades got a problem with "overpopulation".

If you have access to premades try it out, go premade for a day and they solo queue the next day. Youll usually end up with like 90% wins on one and like 40% on the other because premades are so extremely common.

See that's the snag, the horde barely does and the amount of BiS players are quite low. Let's not even get started on the lack of healers.

This also means that people on alliance hate on horde because they always wins and vice versa. But in my experience horde makes the bigger premades meaning soloq horde players are even more screwed.

I really wonder what guilds are doing this then? It certainly is not Old Division, UnitX or the leftovers from Warbringers after they moved nor Proteus.

Just gotta ban AV enabler and disable being able to queue in a group and the BG scene will instantly get healthy again.

Oh yes OMFG that I never thought of that! Now those premaders can do nothing but queue at the same time and suffer and ....wait a sec.
I'm giving up on this matter frankly.

[Gnimo]

Talking to you, Ostlimpa, feels like talking to a wall...

Il just ask u this, how do u explain me, beeing a Gnome Warrior, and still raping a Human Warrior EQUALY geared?

Im not that good as Warrior, i know the basics, but if the other warrior sucks diks, ofc im gona rape him regardless of the race i am or he is using.

Everything u said that happens in Horde Solo Que RBG, happens in Alliance.
The ONLY diference is the time when u Que and RNG.
Some players will be lucky and win more, some wont.
Its simple as that...

Im not saying that there are less Alliance PvPers, there are more, but if u ask me, less players will mean a higher chance of improvement.
If Alliance keeps getting new scrubs, and Horde small PvP population learns how to play instead of just QQing, i think that u will have faster Ques and more Win rate.

But why would someone try to improve when u can just cry and ask for free stuff instead...
Cos, u breath, u deserve everything without giving it any effort, right?


Edit:
wat is dis?
i q hord and i win?
dis a drem?
https://imgur.com/a/ezOj7Q3

[Ostlimpa]

Talking to you, Ostlimpa, feels like talking to a wall...

And talking to you is like talking to a robot with only one programmed feature: deny everything.

Il just ask u this, how do u explain me, beeing a Gnome Warrior, and still raping a Human Warrior EQUALY geared?

I will just ask you what the blazes this has to do with the entire Horde problem when the problem itself rests in the players being NOT EQUALLY geared in BGs?

Im not that good as Warrior, i know the basics, but if the other warrior sucks diks, ofc im gona rape him regardless of the race i am or he is using.

But if the other warrior sits with 2-5k GS and you sit with full BiS + Mourne you would not lose to him even if you banged your head on the keyboard. The end.

Everything u said that happens in Horde Solo Que RBG, happens in Alliance.

And once again, I do not deny it does not happen, I complain how OFTEN it happens as Horde and how SELDOMLY it happens as Alliance.

The ONLY diference is the time when u Que and RNG.

And why do you think that is? I have already answered why.

Some players will be lucky and win more, some wont.

Sure they will. The lucky players are Alliance players and the unlucky ones are Horde.

Its simple as that...

If it is, then I really do wonder what we argue about here?
Nevertheless my time with this project is at its end anyway so I guess it won't matter.

Im not saying that there are less Alliance PvPers, there are more, but if u ask me, less players will mean a higher chance of improvement.
If Alliance keeps getting new scrubs, and Horde small PvP population learns how to play instead of just QQing, i think that u will have faster Ques and more Win rate.

Just roll Horde and talk less, promise me that now that I quit.

But why would someone try to improve when u can just cry and ask for free stuff instead...
Cos, u breath, u deserve everything without giving it any effort, right?

Why bother look at the other side of an argument when you can only look at one? Good thinking. I am sure it will solve a lot of problems.

[Percybird]

The hell, i switched to horde like a month ago and I ****ing love it here at horde. Maybe its cuz of my guild CRAWLERS, but pvp is ****ing fun. Even when i soloq i win like 45% of my bgs roughly. And have lost 1 out of 14-16(about) AV's. Of course i premade a lot, but PvP is not as worse as people are saying. Ofc gy camping is happening far too often, but its just how an old pvp server goes.