I have never ever done a suggestion like this before because I have always believed it won’t really be considered. However, I decided to give it a shot just to see what happens.
Rogues in Wotlk aren’t exactly a bad class in either PvE or PvP. In PvE they are solid damage dealers and in PvP they are a renowned class for solo players as well as group players.
So why make this post if they are fine?
Because of the lack of options for specs in PvP.
The problem with rogues in Wotlk is that the Subtlety tree is really the only viable PvP tree. It has by far the highest burst damage, overall damage, mobility, control, survival and most tools to help the rogue when needed. Unlike other classes, the rogue’s other trees do not really do anything better or change the role of the class at all – Subtlety is king and an unchallenged one at that. And sadly, this goes hand in hand with daggers being a must-use-weapon while any other weapon is shunned from the MH slot.
While a few stalwart individuals have attempted the assassination and combat specs, and made really swell guides for them, the fact remains you hardly ever see assassination and combat rogues in PvP. The few curious players who decides to try the specs out, usually switch back a few days later lamenting about no mobility, low damage, low survival and so on.
It does not really matter what kind of PvP you as a player are into. The Assassination and Combat specs are both very weak no matter if you favor Arena, Battlegrounds, Duels or World PvP. Nor does your skill level or gear level matter much vs a foe with similar skill and gear, the specs simply got too many flaws and too little damage that subtlety cowers with ease.
Therefore, I am going to be so bold (or perhaps foolish) to suggest Talent changes for the Rogue Class’ Assassination and Combat talent trees to make them somewhat more viable for PvP without affecting the DPS in PvE too much. I shall also add that I have no idea if these changes could even be implemented but I hope it should be doable in terms of scripting if they ever get approved.
Assassination:
Fleet Footed: Boost the movement speed from 15% to 30% (15% per rank) and increases the speed of Sprint by 30% (like the glyph). Does not stack with other passive movement speed increasing effects.
- This will give the rogue slightly better mobility.
Seal Fate: Now 2 ranks. 50/100%.
- No more 5 points for 100% when Subtlety gets a talent for 3 points that does the job even better than the classic version of the double combo point generator.
Deadly Brew: In addition to its current effect, causes Distract to slow all affected targets by 70% of their movement speed for 3 seconds. (Poison)
- An interesting change to make Distract a bit more useful in PvP and to compensate for no Shadowstep.
Deadened Nerves: Make it a cooldown that reduces physical damage taken by 25-50% percent for 5 seconds. Can be used while stunned. 3 minute cooldown.
- The point is to let the rogue have some form of defense vs physical attackers. As that is what the talent tree seems to be built towards fighting the most. Assassination lacks mobility to deal with casters and that’s a good flaw, hence why I believe it should only be a physical damage reduction.
Overkill: Boost the effect to 50%.
Master Poisoner: let the talent increase the chance to apply poisons to the target by 30% to make it a lot easier to get 5x stacks of Deadly Poison on the target. Also increases damage dealt by poisons and Envenom by 25%.
- Self-explanatory. It is very difficult to get 5x stacks of Deadly Poison vs a PvP target even with the Improved Poisons talent. Also despite the Vile Poisons talent, the poison damage is on par with that of Subtlety when accounting for the loss of agility/AP. While this change will boost the PvE DPS a bit, I hope it should not affect it too dramatically.
Cut to the chase: Let any finishing move refresh the duration of Slice and Dice. (20% chance per combo point).
- The major issue in PvP is that Kidney Shot is pretty much always used before an Envenom or Eviscerate. Hence it is very hard to refresh it without going into the combat tree for the 50% duration increase on SnD as it means sacrificing vital talents from the Subtley tree. In terms of PvE the change should not do anything as the rotation uses Evenom/Eviscerate anyway.
Add a new talent furthest down in the Assassination tree, right next to Hunger For Blood, called “Sensing”: Prevents the rogue from being attacked from any harmful ability that requires Stealth. (In other words, the rogue cannot be Ambushed, Cheap shotted, Garrotted, Ravaged or Pounced, yet can still be sapped). It is passive in and out of Stealth but can be countered by the use of Shadow Dance.
- A major problem for those rogues who go deep into the Assassination tree is that they have very little chance to beat another rogue with the Subtlety spec due to the lack of the Heightened Senses, Preparation and Premeditation. To improve the odds, another Rogue/Druid will be forced to AoE the rogue out of stealth or use Shadow Dance.
Combat:
Riposte: Can now be used whenever a target Dodges/Parries/Blocks or the Rogue parries/resists a spell. Cannot be dodged or Parried. Now also reduces casting speed by 20% in addition to melee/ranged attack speed. 6 sec CD remains.
- The reason for this change is that it is very rare that Riposte seldomly get used in PvP (or can be used for that matter). This change should make it more worthwhile to spec.
Improved Kick: Now lasts 3 seconds. Up from 2.
- Same as the Cataclysm talent, improves kick to make it more worthwhile.
Improved Sprint (talent position swapped with Mace Specialization): Increases the speed of Sprint by 30% (like the glyph). Now also increases the rogue’s movement speed by 30% at all times.
- A compensation to help with the mobility issues.
Blade Twisting: 40% chance to Daze the target, reducing movement speed by 70% for 8 seconds.
- A very needed change. Right now, it hardly ever procs and gets stomped by the 50% chance Crippling Poison 70% movement speed reduction.
Throwing Specialization: In addition to current effects, increases the damage of Deadly Throw by 50%.
- Will add a bit more ranged damage and therefore encourage the use of the Deadly Throw Glyph as well as its use.
Unfair Advantage: In addition to the current effect, the rogue cannot be hit by AoE effects when Stealthed.
- A serious problem for Combat rogues is that due to the lack of Shadowstep, they have to walk/sprint up to their target. Since the Wrath of the Lich King expansion is full of AoE effects, like for example Pestilence, it can be almost impossible to strike a target without getting hit. This talent is intended to help compensate for that while still allowing the rogue to be struck by AoE effects once the stealth is broken.
Surprise Attacks: Now also increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 1 second and the silence effect of Garrotte by 1 second. Ghostly Strike also deals an additional 30% damage and lasts an additional 4 seconds and provides 5% extra dodge.
- Will give the rogue a bit more extra time to deal damage or setup a rotation.
Prey on the Weak: Now increases critical strike damage by 30%, up from 20%. Health requirement removed.
- In PvP, this talent is practically useless atm and due to resilience the damage increase is not that high.
It is my hopes that with these changes, the rogue PvP life will no longer have to be confined to the Subtlety spec. The main concern has been to give the Assassination and Combat trees somewhat more mobility, catchups, survival and reduce certain handicaps without increasing the damage that much. The changes are supposed to make the specs more appealing in PvP without drastically changing the PvE scene.
I sincerely hope this could be considered. For right now the Wotlk realms are quite the dull place for Rogues who desire to play something else but dagger-ambush. And given the representation of rogues in arena, perhaps this changes will make them somewhat more wanted there aswell.
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Member
Wotlk: Assassination and Combat suggestions
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Member
While some of the proposed changes are perhaps a bit strong and maybe difficult to implement one can't deny that both of these specs are indeed suffering from many issues that plenty of these talent suggestions would solve.
I for one would welcome a few of these improvements. For it would be swell to be able to play something that is not just Ambush backstab and eviscerate.
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Member
If it's custom content you can forget, and from what I read (not entire message) it seems to be that, sorry for you
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Member
All servers got custom content so this statement just reeks of spite and lazyness.
Why not instead try to help work things out? The specs are suffering and a little help could make them much more enjoyable.
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Member
Ha ha. No.
I also like frost mage, lovely DF and instant FFB, but they're not gonna buff it so I can play it in PVE now.
Forget about changing talents and making it a custom realm.
-"boo they already are custom! You have transmog!"
Custom meaning something that affects the gameplay, not the visual aspects.
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Member
There's specs for PVP and specs for PVE. There's no 1 spec that works amazing in both without talent changes.
This kind of custom tuning for the class would change everything about what people know as rogues for an expansion that's 9 yrs old.
They're not going to bring goblins/worgens/pandas to WOTLK even tho some ppl love those races, why would they add custom talent trees?
Custom talent tree = lvl 255 "fun" server where everyone wrecks everyone regardless of spec. It would make every guide ever written for this expansion on retail and here obsolete and confuse veteran/new players alike.
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Moderator
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=241277
And, we will not be trying to balance classes.
